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Help--False Prophets!

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by ephraim101, May 13, 2007.

  1. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (RND;13021)
    You mean 'gibberish'!!!!!!!!So many of these churches that teach 'speaking in tongues' are really just teaching non-sensical gibberish
    RDN be carefull talking like that about Holy Ghost. Bible refers to Holy Ghost as a 'sensitive' part of the Trinity. It is easily offended. And that youtube video is a VIDEO and you shouldn't use it against Holy Spirit which is a part of GOD himself!!! I have seen alot of all kinds of videos on youtube, I can not judge everyone because of 1 person in a video.... Would it be fair if the world judged 'americans' by vieos with criminal on the run, or a 1400 lbs man who can not even move around his own room, or a Myspace child molestor caught ontape? No, we don't want our nation to be labeled as fat, lazy, dumb, criminalistic, etc, just because of people on youtube. Same with Churches and denamination, you can't label them as soemthing you saw on youtube in 1 video!!! I am Pentacostal, and never ever saw anything crazy in my church. Even thought some people think pentacostals can not have normal services and something crazy is happening at church! Not really. You can check out my church online 'free chapel' Pastor Jentezen Franklin. Ans what makes you think Holy Ghost is not real???
     
  2. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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  3. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Amen,The HolyGhost is very easily offended, and doesn't take such things lightly!There are some that go overboard, but you can go overboard with any thing!But like Tamma said, you can't judge one person that is foolish!
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas New Member

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    All who follow Christ are united in Him. Following someone else causes division. That was the problem at Corinth. Paul continues: "For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, 'I am of Paul,' or 'I am of Apollos,' or 'I am of Cephas,' or 'I am of Christ.' Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Corinthians 1:11-13). Division is caused by following the founder or leader of some denomination rather than Christ.
     
  5. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Tama;13022)
    RDN - but it was thought all thru out the NT.. Acts and all Paul's and Peter's letters to churches talk about 'speaking in tongues' as a gift that is very benefitial to everyone's spiritual person. What happened in upper room when holy ghost filled them and manifested thru 'speaking in tongues' ????
    I understand 'speaking in diverse languages' and hearing and understanding those 'diverse languages'. I have no doubt that an Ethiopian Jew visiting Jerusalem in the days of Pentecost heard and understood in his native tongue though the 'Holy Spirit' may have been speaking but one language. These are indeed gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is 'inspired speech' and I certainly believe in it.However, 'speaking in tongues' is not speaking in a language that only one person speaks and hears, for this only 'benefits' the one speaking in that language. Someone speeking in an 'unknown tongue' edifies only himself and no one else. I doubt anyone in those video clips can either identify what they said, or that anyone there can translate it. Therefore to me, it's simply 'gibberish' or vain babbling.
     
  6. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Wakka;13030)
    That is offensive. I'd be careful if I were you. God will judge you for all of the things you say. And the worse thing you could do is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
    Sorry if you're offended, didn't need to do that, but if a language can not be easily discerned by anyone but he who speaks it then that language edifies no one but the speaker. If someone starting speaking in tongues in say French, and I began to suddenly understand French (which I certainly believe is possible) then that certainly would be a gift of the Holy Spirit.But, let's be honest, not everything said in the name of the Lord is from the Lord or the Holy Spirit. Satan does indeed deceive and I have do doubt he uses speech to do his deception.Tongues are for a sign, but not to those that believe, but to those that don't believe. 1 Corthinians 14:22, 23
     
  7. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Tama;13025)
    RDN be carefull talking like that about Holy Ghost. Bible refers to Holy Ghost as a 'sensitive' part of the Trinity. It is easily offended. And that youtube video is a VIDEO and you shouldn't use it against Holy Spirit which is a part of GOD himself!!! I have seen alot of all kinds of videos on youtube, I can not judge everyone because of 1 person in a video.... Would it be fair if the world judged 'americans' by vieos with criminal on the run, or a 1400 lbs man who can not even move around his own room, or a Myspace child molestor caught ontape? No, we don't want our nation to be labeled as fat, lazy, dumb, criminalistic, etc, just because of people on youtube. Same with Churches and denamination, you can't label them as soemthing you saw on youtube in 1 video!!! I am Pentacostal, and never ever saw anything crazy in my church. Even thought some people think pentacostals can not have normal services and something crazy is happening at church! Not really. You can check out my church online 'free chapel' Pastor Jentezen Franklin. Ans what makes you think Holy Ghost is not real???
    You know, I left a church that spoke in these 'languages' because no one knew what the other was saying. It was all vain babbling, of which we have been admonished to avoid:1 Timothy 6:20O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:2 Timothy 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
     
  8. (Wakka;13030)
    That is offensive. I'd be careful if I were you. God will judge you for all of the things you say. And the worse thing you could do is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
    Yeah, be careful, RND. Don't disagree too much. You might get banned!
     
  9. (RND;13045)
    I understand 'speaking in diverse languages' and hearing and understanding those 'diverse languages'. I have no doubt that an Ethiopian Jew visiting Jerusalem in the days of Pentecost heard and understood in his native tongue though the 'Holy Spirit' may have been speaking but one language. These are indeed gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is 'inspired speech' and I certainly believe in it.However, 'speaking in tongues' is not speaking in a language that only one person speaks and hears, for this only 'benefits' the one speaking in that language. Someone speeking in an 'unknown tongue' edifies only himself and no one else. I doubt anyone in those video clips can either identify what they said, or that anyone there can translate it. Therefore to me, it's simply 'gibberish' or vain babbling.
    See, RND. There are some things with which you agree with preterists. I am in total agreement with you here.
     
  10. RND

    RND New Member

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    (God'sWordAlone;13075)
    See, RND. There are some things with which you agree with preterists. I am in total agreement with you here.
    Um, try not to make your comments out to read that I agree with the false theology of 'preterism', that would be an unfair characterization of my comments and what I said.So you're a 'preterist' and I'm a 'historicist' and we 'agree' on some text of the Bible, Praise the Lord!
     
  11. (RND;13080)
    Um, try not to make your comments out to read that I agree with the false theology of 'preterism', that would be an unfair characterization of my comments and what I said.So you're a 'preterist' and I'm a 'historicist' and we 'agree' on some text of the Bible, Praise the Lord!
    If you reread what I posted, I did not in any way make you out as one who agrees with the TRUTHS of preterism. I simply said that we agree on the issue of tongues. Yes, it would be an unfair characterization of what you said--but I didn't do that!
     
  12. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    RND,It's like Tamma mentioned in another post, You are judging what one person did that was gibberish, with every one that speaks in an unknown tongue.You were stating in your own post just a minute ago that unknown tongues does edify the individual person. That means that it is a gift that edifies, so don't call what God is doing to build up and edify people gibberish!
     
  13. RND

    RND New Member

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    (jodycour;13086)
    RND,It's like Tamma mentioned in another post, You are judging what one person did that was gibberish, with every one that speaks in an unknown tongue.You were stating in your own post just a minute ago that unknown tongues does edify the individual person. That means that it is a gift that edifies, so don't call what God is doing to build up and edify people gibberish!
    If the language is understood by no one, not even the person saying it, then it is 'vain babbling' just as the books of Timothy point out. What I pointed out with respect to speaking in an unknown tongue alone is simple. If you're a Frenchman speaking French in a room of people speaking Swahili then only the Frenchman can be edified by his language, not those that don't understand French.Whether you wish to acknowledge that there are people that practice 'vain babbling' or not is not something I will judge. But when people 'speak' in a language that they cannot interpret, nor anyone else, then I suspect that is not a language as much as it is vain babbling and gibberish, and this I am free to discern as being Biblical or not by the scripture itself.
     
  14. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    You said your self Qoating I Corth.14:4He that speaketh in an un-known tongue edifieth himself!Unknown tongue means that it is not a known language uh duh!The bible clearly says here that it does edify the individual!edify does mean to build up!
     
  15. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    (RND;13093)
    If the language is understood by no one, not even the person saying it, then it is 'vain babbling' just as the books of Timothy point out.
    Could you explain a bit more why you apply 1 Tim 6:20 and 2 Tim 2:16 to the issue of speaking in tongues? I am more accustomed to see these verses in the context of teaching error and the like. Or are you saying it is the teaching of the doctrine of the speaking in tongues that is the empty babbling, and not the act of speaking in tongues that is the babbling?Or, have I misidentified the verses you intended?
     
  16. RND

    RND New Member

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    (B'midbar;13097)
    Could you explain a bit more why you apply 1 Tim 6:20 and 2 Tim 2:16 to the issue of speaking in tongues?
    The two verses I mentioned describe 'vain babbling' in conjunction with false and unsound teachings. I consider speaking in a 'language' understood by no one, even the person uttering the language, to be 'vain babbling'.
    I am more accustomed to see these verses in the context of teaching error and the like. Or are you saying it is the teaching of the doctrine of the speaking in tongues that is the empty babbling, and not the act of speaking in tongues that is the babbling?
    Precisely. I certainly believe it is possible for the Holy Spirit to speak to a room full of Hungarians, using Taiwanese.
    Or, have I misidentified the verses you intended?
    No. I think you have tried hard to understand the POV I was making as opposed to just simply overreacting. Thanks! That truly is the 'Spirit' of God working!
     
  17. RND

    RND New Member

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    (jodycour;13095)
    You said your self Qoating I Corth.14:4He that speaketh in an un-known tongue edifieth himself!Unknown tongue means that it is not a known language uh duh!The bible clearly says here that it does edify the individual!edify does mean to build up!
    Yes, but an 'unknown tongue' is not just grunting gibberish. Tongues in the Bible are 'languages' not just merely speaking 'vain babblings'. The 'implication' of the word glossa means 'language'. If no one understands what is being said, including the speaker, then it is not a language. I've been to churches like this. No one generally, including the speaker, knows what they are saying, or what is being said. What is being uttered does not resemble anything that could be considered a language. If it is not a language, "a tongue", that can be understood by someone else then it is 'vain babbling'.
     
  18. Tama

    Tama New Member

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    (RND;13099)
    Yes, but an 'unknown tongue' is not just grunting gibberish. Tongues in the Bible are 'languages' not just merely speaking 'vain babblings'. The 'implication' of the word glossa means 'language'. If no one understands what is being said, including the speaker, then it is not a language. I've been to churches like this. No one generally, including the speaker, knows what they are saying, or what is being said. What is being uttered does not resemble anything that could be considered a language. If it is not a language, "a tongue", that can be understood by someone else then it is 'vain babbling'.
    RND, why do you think on the day of pentacost people thought desciples were drunk and some people thought desciples were crazy? Because HS manifested in unsusal way. If it was just blahbing - then why would our God let that happen in that particular way? God is it's own master. He comes as He wishes. He manifests Himself as He wishes. He is called a soft breeze, and in other verses He is called a mighty wind. He is called a candle-lite and in other verses He is called a flame. He has it's own ways and they aren't always the same. So HS isn't gonna come in a same way to everyone. Someone might say a silent prayer and still feel the HS, but to other people He comes in power. And book of Acts says that...
     
  19. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Tama;13104)
    RND, why do you think on the day of pentacost people thought desciples were drunk and some people thought desciples were crazy?
    Most likely it had to do with the preponderance of the multitude of tongues that were represented that day.The point you seem to be missing Tama is I'm not suggesting that Holy Spirit doesn't speak in different languages, I'm suggesting that if the speaker of the language 1) doesn't know what they said, and 2) no one can interpret what was said then most likely the language is just babble. Just like in those videos.Also, Acts 2:6-11 sheds much light in that each man gathered that day heard "them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." They clearly heard in their own languages. Acts 2:8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? They heard in their native languages, and not jst a few, but all those gathere there that day. They heard and they understood.
     
  20. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    This seems to be the only occurence that you recall, but it is not!In I Corth.14:4 If the Un-known tongue he is talking about here was a known other language why would he call it un-known? Plus he said that it is better to prophecy because all will benefit unless it is interpreted. But then he says un-known tongues is a person only speaking to God and it only benefits that person, and Builds them up!I corth.14:2 It say's here clearly that he speaks in mysteries!In verse 5 He says:I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied.In verse 14:For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is un fruitful.But His spirit man is praying! That is beneficial, not vain babbleing!Verse 18 says:I thank God , I speak with tongues more than ye all!Why would He thank God for vain babbling?
     
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