HELP, I'M A UNIVERSALIST - CAN SOMEONE BRING ME INTO THE FRESH WATERS OF 'ETERNAL DAMNATIONISM'?

[The Kreisel]

Anyone?

 

[lforrest]

Metaphorically mocking the quality of our beliefs based entirely on an emotional judgement from a humanist perspective. First help me to believe that you actually care about the truth or I'll not the waste time arguing for it to you.

 

[The Kreisel]

Metaphorically mocking the quality of our beliefs based entirely on an emotional judgement from a humanist perspective. First help me to believe that you actually care about the truth or I'll not the waste time arguing for it to you.

Oh, look at that jump-forward - "based ENTIRELY on an emotional judgement" -
Ok, let's see how serious you are about Truth.
Will start with just one verse at a time, until you're taking in so deep you end up banning me.
Let's take a look at Romans 11:36, "For out of him and through him and to him are ALL THINGS".
Feel free to expound on that, and why "All things" really means 'some things'.

 

[Renniks]

Anyone?

Jesus talked more about eternal damnation than anyone else.
Look it up.

 

[The Kreisel]

Jesus talked more about eternal damnation than anyone else.
Look it up.

@Renniks. This is for the admin and I.
You're not qualified to debate me on Universalism.

 

[Enoch111]

Let's take a look at Romans 11:36, "For out of him and through him and to him are ALL THINGS".

There's no need to take this verse out of context to manufacture your heresy. What is Romans 11 all about? The salvation of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (as clearly expounded in Romans 10). It has nothing to say about damnation.

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.(Rom 11:11).

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom 11:26).

Now if you want passages about eternal damnation read the words of Christ in many passages. I will leave you to it (unless this post of yours is simply for trolling).

 

[The Kreisel]

There's no need to take this verse out of context to manufacture your heresy. What is Romans 11 all about? The salvation of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (as clearly expounded in Romans 10). It has nothing to say about damnation.

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.(Rom 11:11).

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom 11:26).

Now if you want passages about eternal damnation read the words of Christ in many passages. I will leave you to it (unless this post of yours is simply for trolling).

You left out that pesky VS 25 -
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Most all are still ignorant of the mystery . .

 

[The Kreisel]

There's no need to take this verse out of context to manufacture your heresy. What is Romans 11 all about? The salvation of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (as clearly expounded in Romans 10). It has nothing to say about damnation.

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.(Rom 11:11).

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom 11:26).

Now if you want passages about eternal damnation read the words of Christ in many passages. I will leave you to it (unless this post of yours is simply for trolling).

As long as you like context, and Romans 11:36 is evidently not worth your time, consider Romans 11:32 as well -
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

Makes an honest mind wonder if "All" in Romans 11:32 is the same as "All Things" in Romans 11:36.

 

[Renniks]

@Renniks. This is for the admin and I.
You're not qualified to debate me on Universalism.

How would you know that?

 

[lforrest]

I'm waiting to know if he cares about the truth or not, all I see is confrontation.

 

[Renniks]

As long as you like context, and Romans 11:36 is evidently not worth your time, consider Romans 11:32 as well -
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

Makes an honest mind wonder if "All" in Romans 11:32 is the same as "All Things" in Romans 11:36.

Having mercy on all clearly doesn't mean all will be saved. You have to ignore all the verses about judgement to get there...and they are many.

 

[atpollard]

Anyone?

No one needs to “bring” you anywhere. Continue to believe that God is a liar and His word is false and I am confident that you can reach your goal of “eternal damnation” without any outside help. ;)

 

[Raccoon1010]

I would like universalism if it didn't contradict Christ in the bible.

 

[atpollard]

Let's take a look at Romans 11:36, "For out of him and through him and to him are ALL THINGS".
Feel free to expound on that, and why "All things" really means 'some things'.

[Romans 11:33-36 NASB] 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him [be] the glory forever. Amen.
[Romans 12:1-2 NASB] 1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, [which is] your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.​

I do not see what there is to expound upon. What “things” can be given back to God that were not first “from Him, through Him, or to Him”?

A far simpler question is this ...

[Romans 9:20-24 NASB] 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

... Are there really vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath?

 

[Available Light]

You left out that pesky VS 25 -
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Most all are still ignorant of the mystery . .

What a powerful scripture. I wonder why the others here have not responded to it.

@Kreisel - Have you heard of J Preston Eby? he is an excellent Bible teacher, especially his Savior of the World Series
Let me know what you think.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Anyone?

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now if Jesus had said that ALL would find it, then you would seem to be standing on solid doctrinal ground.

So I would not contradict what the Lord said because if you do, that would put you in the scripture below as someone to be avoided:

Romans 16:17-18 KJV
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You left out that pesky VS 25 -
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Most all are still ignorant of the mystery . .

And yet these scriptures will be fulfilled:

Zephaniah 1:2-6 KJV
[2] I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the Lord. [3] I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the Lord. [4] I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests; [5] And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the Lord, and that swear by Malcham; [6] And them that are turned back from the Lord; and those that have not sought the Lord, nor enquired for him.

 

[Available Light]

I'm not a theologian, but God damning people for eternity does not feel right with the Jesus I know.
It makes me cringe, I thought Jesus paid the price for all the sins of everyone?

How can people really love God knowing he is burning people for eternity?

 

[amadeus]

I'm not a theologian, but God damning people for eternity does not feel right with the Jesus I know.
It makes me cringe, I thought Jesus paid the price for all the sins of everyone?

How can people really love God knowing he is burning people for eternity?

What about rather than burning for eternity those who don't know Him when they run out of time [physical death] simply die into an unending death?

Jesus paid the price to reopen the closed gate/door into Life, but not many people are willing to admit the need to do anything even by the power of God to be able to walk through in order to partake of that other tree, the Tree of Life. What needs to be done? How about overcoming all of the obstacles between us and Him by following the lead of the Holy Spirit?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7

 

[Available Light]

What about rather than burning for eternity those who don't know Him when they run out of time [physical death] simply die into an unending death?

Jesus paid the price to reopen the closed gate/door into Life, but not many people are willing to admit the need to do anything even by the power of God to be able to walk through in order to partake of that other tree, the Tree of Life. What needs to be done? How about overcoming all of the obstacles between us and Him by following the lead of the Holy Spirit?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7

Why use a phrase like 'Unending Death' which is not in the Bible?
I prefer to believe that God's mercy endureth forever, and he will give life to all like Romans 5:18 states -

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."