Help Wanted - Luke 15:7

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Paul Christensen

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You see what I am seeing, Nancy. In fact, what you've pointed out occurs too often throughout the entire Bible . . . both Old and New Testaments.

Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Luke 16:15 NLT - "Then he said to them, "You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God."

We also have the story of the man born blind, who, when after being enabled to believe in Christ, he Truly did teach the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees . . . who explained, "Are you trying to teach us??!!" Hypocrites.

And how about the folks, which will be the majority, who said, "But . . . Jesus! We were taught by you, even doing your good work!" And Jesus will say, "Away from me, for I never knew you."

In fact, I could create the argument that this is what much of the Bible is based upon . . . people appearing to be righteous when they are not. In fact, is there a greater example than those who had been deported to Samaria, to occupy the land while the Israelites were in captivity? The king of Assyria had heard that the Lord had sent lions to devour those in His Holy Land, so he sent a priest from Israel to teach "them" how to worship the Lord so that the lions would stop devouring them. It worked! However, these abominations (they were from the Seven Nations) were still sacrificing their children to the fire, to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

[Edit - I mean to add] - So, we have these abominations worshipping the Lord, but they're also STILL worshipping Satan. There is NO WAY these people who were successfully worshipping God (to prevent the lion's devouring ways) going to suggest that they would need to repent. After all, they were creating success in their Worship to God . . . they probably believed they were in the right . . . somehow.
Although your point about those who think they are righteous is correct, using these references to make out that the ones who did not need repentance in the reference in the OP just doesn't wash. It is obvious that someone who thinks they are righteous when they are not still needs to repent. That is a given. But Jesus said that the ninety nine "did not need repentance". Why would He say that if He knew they had repented already? 4th grade language comprehension, thou art a jewel!!
 

justbyfaith

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Although your point about those who think they are righteous is correct, using these references to make out that the ones who did not need repentance in the reference in the OP just doesn't wash. It is obvious that someone who thinks they are righteous when they are not still needs to repent. That is a given. But Jesus said that the ninety nine "did not need repentance". Why would He say that if He knew they had repented already? 4th grade language comprehension, thou art a jewel!!


If they already repented, they are walking in the right direction. They don't need to turn around again.
 
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Paul Christensen

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This is the verse I had wanted to add but, hit send before hand. Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Yes, many examples to those who "think" they have nothing to repent of!
But the ninety nine did not make any claims to righteousness. Jesus said they were just and did not need repentance. That is the major difference that I think you guys are missing. Anyone is is not a blockhead dolt would know that being just in Jesus' view has to have previously repented, and therefore doesn't need to repent twice.
 

Davy

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This passage is a tough one, for me, to understand.

Luke 15:7 KJV - "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

It seems to me that all need repentance. It seems to me that we were all, at one time, sinners.

I don't read commentaries, however, I prefer to talk to others and get their ideas. So . . . how do we make rational sense of this?

You really have to read the whole chapter examples. Like Apostle Peter said, it is God's will that all come to repentance. And what servant of His shouldn't rejoice when one who was once lost repents, and He brings back into His fold? Afterall, He is The Father of all souls that He created. Can you imagine how He feels about having to destroy the cherub Satan that He originally created that was perfect in his ways before he rebelled? How much more a child of God that followed the devil but then repents to Him?
 

2nd Timothy Group

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You really have to read the whole chapter examples. Like Apostle Peter said, it is God's will that all come to repentance. And what servant of His shouldn't rejoice when one who was once lost repents, and He brings back into His fold? Afterall, He is The Father of all souls that He created. Can you imagine how He feels about having to destroy the cherub Satan that He originally created that was perfect in his ways before he rebelled? How much more a child of God that followed the devil but then repents to Him?

It also seems important to know the main and Holy Narrative of the entire Bible. What Nancy and I have presented fits that Narrative.

But as you say, what True Servant does not rejoice over a lost soul being granted the Grace and Mercy of God? See Exodus 33:19.

But the brother in the story of the Prodigal Son is [not] happy, hence, not a True Servant, but one that has been placed into a deep sleep.

Romans 11:7-10 NKJV - "What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always."
 
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Davy

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It also seems important to know the main and Holy Narrative of the entire Bible. What Nancy and I have presented fits that Narrative.

But as you say, what True Servant does not rejoice over a lost soul being granted the Grace and Mercy of God? See Exodus 33:19.

But the brother in the story of the Prodigal Son is [not] happy, hence, not a True Servant, but one that has been placed into a deep sleep.

Romans 11:7-10 NKJV - "What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always."

Well, if you want to go that deep, then it's about the lost sheep of house of Israel, the ten lost tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" which God removed captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes, never to return as a people of Israel, but will when Jesus returns to gather them back to the lands originally promised their fathers. The believing Gentile will be gathered with them, as the majority of the ten tribes along with many of scattered Judah became the western Christian nations, under Christ Jesus.
 
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ReChoired

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This passage is a tough one, for me, to understand.

Luke 15:7 KJV - "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

It seems to me that all need repentance. It seems to me that we were all, at one time, sinners.

I don't read commentaries, however, I prefer to talk to others and get their ideas. So . . . how do we make rational sense of this?
The '99' are all of the unfallen worlds, that never sinned.

Would you like to know more and the details?
 

2nd Timothy Group

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Well, if you want to go that deep, then it's about the lost sheep of house of Israel, the ten lost tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" which God removed captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes, never to return as a people of Israel, but will when Jesus returns to gather them back to the lands originally promised their fathers. The believing Gentile will be gathered with them, as the majority of the ten tribes along with many of scattered Judah became the western Christian nations, under Christ Jesus.

I'm not concerned with going deep, rather, I'm interested in what is True. :)

Admittedly, there are several ways to view the Parable of the Lost Son. The view you've presented is the one that makes the most reasonable sense (to me). It's an unbelievable Bible we have.
 

ReChoired

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Absolutely! Sounds rather interesting.
The unfallen “worlds”, and the unfallen beings therein which “went not astray”, being “just persons, which need no repentance”:

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 11:3 KJB - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.​

Side note, those of man-kind, which are in Christ Jesus, are the 'aliens' to the wicked, for we are the very strangers and pilgrims [Satan has counterfeited and reversed this] in the universe. In reverse, the unfallen worlds are the natural, and sinners are the unnatural, thus are alienated from God:

Hebrews 11:13 KJB - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.​

We are that one lost world, whom the Son of God, 'Jesus', left the '99' for in Heaven to come and save us, that he might come from that “far country” and deliver us, and “return home” with us, that we may once again have a “place” among those “many mansions”:

Matthew 18:11 KJB - For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 18:12 KJB - How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Notice, Jesus 'left' the 99 where they were and came to seek the lost sheep (us, sinners) this one lost world. The 99 did not go "astray" (sin). They are the unfallen worlds. The Father, the Husbandman (John 15:1), sent the Son the Chief Shepherd (1 Peter 5:4).

Matthew 18:13 KJB - And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Luke 15:4 KJB - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:5 KJB - And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Luke 15:6 KJB - And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Luke 15:7 KJB - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Notice that these 99 "need no repentance", for they never sinned. These worlds existed before earth was created (Job 38:7, thus they could rejoice and sing when God created in Genesis 1:1 this "heaven and earth"). Genesis 1-2 is only concerned with the 1st (Genesis 1:20) and 2nd (Genesis 1:14-19) Heaven, not the 3rd Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2,4 the Heavenly Paradise/Eden that existed before, which God took a portion of an "planted" (like a transplant, a portion of that which existed already, for it does not say God created it there, which is why God took it back just before the flood and you see it in Revelation with the Tree of Life there) on earth (Genesis 2:8)) where God already exists, and the worlds already present there. Everyone on this world (lost one), needs repentance. The Heavenly unfallen beings do not. The Four Living creatures of Revelation represent in symbol all those unfallen worlds (4 is universal, and Beast is a nation/peoples), and the 24 Elders are the General Conference of Heaven, as they are the representative leaders of those unfallen worlds, as Adam was the "son of God" for this world, before Satan usurped that position, and became the "god of this world", which Adam (not Deity, but ruler in stewardship under God, as they were before accepting satan, as "gods" (rulers having dominion, Adam/Eve - not Deity) knowing good ...) was before.

Notice, that "joy" was in "Heaven" among the "friends and neighbours" of the Son of God. The unfallen worlds, notice:


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.​

John 14:1 KJB - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 KJB - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Father's House is all of Heaven, spread out as a tent, and each "world" is a "room"/"place" therein.

Isa_40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Just as God made this earth, there are other inhabited worlds (Hebrews 1 & 11) for His other children:

Isa_45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.​

John 14:3 KJB - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

John 14:4 KJB - And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, as Adam [Luke 3:38 KJB], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47 KJB], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5 KJB] before his fall, and the angelic “morning stars”:

Job 1:6 KJB - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 KJB - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:4 KJB - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding

Job 38:5 KJB - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 KJB - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 KJB - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 KJB account. Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood, and Job 38:4-7 KJB deals with the timeframe long before the flood, when the earth was created. The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5 KJB, and please notice it speaks of “men”.​

For more on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4 KJB, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 4:26 KJB, etc., and for the daughters of men, see Genesis 4:16-24 KJB.​

Those in that “far country”, even the “end of heaven”:

Isaiah 13:5 KJB - They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Matthew 21:33 KJB - Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matthew 25:14 KJB - For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mark 12:1 KJB - And he began to speak unto them by parables. A [certain] man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about [it], and digged [a place for] the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

Luke 19:12 KJB - He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Luke 20:9 KJB - Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.​
 

2nd Timothy Group

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The unfallen “worlds”, and the unfallen beings therein which “went not astray”, being “just persons, which need no repentance”:

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 11:3 KJB - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.​

Side note, those of man-kind, which are in Christ Jesus, are the 'aliens' to the wicked, for we are the very strangers and pilgrims [Satan has counterfeited and reversed this] in the universe. In reverse, the unfallen worlds are the natural, and sinners are the unnatural, thus are alienated from God:

Hebrews 11:13 KJB - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.​

We are that one lost world, whom the Son of God, 'Jesus', left the '99' for in Heaven to come and save us, that he might come from that “far country” and deliver us, and “return home” with us, that we may once again have a “place” among those “many mansions”:

Matthew 18:11 KJB - For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 18:12 KJB - How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Notice, Jesus 'left' the 99 where they were and came to seek the lost sheep (us, sinners) this one lost world. The 99 did not go "astray" (sin). They are the unfallen worlds. The Father, the Husbandman (John 15:1), sent the Son the Chief Shepherd (1 Peter 5:4).
Matthew 18:13 KJB - And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Luke 15:4 KJB - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:5 KJB - And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Luke 15:6 KJB - And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Luke 15:7 KJB - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Notice that these 99 "need no repentance", for they never sinned. These worlds existed before earth was created (Job 38:7, thus they could rejoice and sing when God created in Genesis 1:1 this "heaven and earth"). Genesis 1-2 is only concerned with the 1st (Genesis 1:20) and 2nd (Genesis 1:14-19) Heaven, not the 3rd Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2,4 the Heavenly Paradise/Eden that existed before, which God took a portion of an "planted" (like a transplant, a portion of that which existed already, for it does not say God created it there, which is why God took it back just before the flood and you see it in Revelation with the Tree of Life there) on earth (Genesis 2:8)) where God already exists, and the worlds already present there. Everyone on this world (lost one), needs repentance. The Heavenly unfallen beings do not. The Four Living creatures of Revelation represent in symbol all those unfallen worlds (4 is universal, and Beast is a nation/peoples), and the 24 Elders are the General Conference of Heaven, as they are the representative leaders of those unfallen worlds, as Adam was the "son of God" for this world, before Satan usurped that position, and became the "god of this world", which Adam (not Deity, but ruler in stewardship under God, as they were before accepting satan, as "gods" (rulers having dominion, Adam/Eve - not Deity) knowing good ...) was before.

Notice, that "joy" was in "Heaven" among the "friends and neighbours" of the Son of God. The unfallen worlds, notice:


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.​
John 14:1 KJB - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 KJB - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Father's House is all of Heaven, spread out as a tent, and each "world" is a "room"/"place" therein.
Isa_40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Just as God made this earth, there are other inhabited worlds (Hebrews 1 & 11) for His other children:

Isa_45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.​
John 14:3 KJB - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

John 14:4 KJB - And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​
The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, as Adam [Luke 3:38 KJB], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47 KJB], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5 KJB] before his fall, and the angelic “morning stars”:

Job 1:6 KJB - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 KJB - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:4 KJB - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding

Job 38:5 KJB - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 KJB - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 KJB - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 KJB account. Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood, and Job 38:4-7 KJB deals with the timeframe long before the flood, when the earth was created. The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5 KJB, and please notice it speaks of “men”.​

For more on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4 KJB, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 4:26 KJB, etc., and for the daughters of men, see Genesis 4:16-24 KJB.​

Those in that “far country”, even the “end of heaven”:

Isaiah 13:5 KJB - They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Matthew 21:33 KJB - Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matthew 25:14 KJB - For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mark 12:1 KJB - And he began to speak unto them by parables. A [certain] man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about [it], and digged [a place for] the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

Luke 19:12 KJB - He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Luke 20:9 KJB - Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.​

Wow. That is quite a read. Lot's to take in . . . there. :) Thank you!
 

Paul Christensen

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The unfallen “worlds”, and the unfallen beings therein which “went not astray”, being “just persons, which need no repentance”:

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 11:3 KJB - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.​
All this looks like a personally concocted premise with selected verses of the Bible to support it. Reminds me of Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencranz And Guildenstern Are Dead" where two minor characters in Shakespeare's Hamlet are made the major characters and the major characters, the king, queen, Hamlet, Ophelia and Laertes are minor characters who just walk past.

I used the same idea when I wrote a church play based on Daniel in the lions' den, where I made the major characters two lions who enjoyed eating humans only with tomato sauce and the whole point of allowing Daniel to live was because of his promise that they would be released from their grotty case and transferred to the wildlife park detail.
 

2nd Timothy Group

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All this looks like a personally concocted premise with selected verses of the Bible to support it. Reminds me of Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencranz And Guildenstern Are Dead" where two minor characters in Shakespeare's Hamlet are made the major characters and the major characters, the king, queen, Hamlet, Ophelia and Laertes are minor characters who just walk past.

I used the same idea when I wrote a church play based on Daniel in the lions' den, where I made the major characters two lions who enjoyed eating humans only with tomato sauce and the whole point of allowing Daniel to live was because of his promise that they would be released from their grotty case and transferred to the wildlife park detail.

At least @ReChoired isn't giving us generational theology. I'll take new ideas any day over the ho-hum doctrine of today's modern-day churches.
 

justbyfaith

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All this looks like a personally concocted premise with selected verses of the Bible to support it. Reminds me of Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencranz And Guildenstern Are Dead" where two minor characters in Shakespeare's Hamlet are made the major characters and the major characters, the king, queen, Hamlet, Ophelia and Laertes are minor characters who just walk past.

I used the same idea when I wrote a church play based on Daniel in the lions' den, where I made the major characters two lions who enjoyed eating humans only with tomato sauce and the whole point of allowing Daniel to live was because of his promise that they would be released from their grotty case and transferred to the wildlife park detail.
That's cute...
 

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Hi 2nd Tim,
I believe you are correct and, I don't think the 99 were saved as they did not repent. Also, as you said, what follows closely is the Prodigal son story. So, I do agree with your take on Luke 15:7
It does not seem the brother repented but just remained angry and jealous.
The thought of putting my own self in the place of the brother who stayed, how would I have felt? It is scary to think of :eek:
I would think that the proper parallel passage would be the 100 sheep and the one that goes astray. The 99 sheep were safe and with their proper owner. But, the owner now, wanted to bring the lost sheep to the same place as the others, not to a more glorious abode. In all these cases of the lost coin, the lost sheep, the prodigal son, or eating and drinking with sinners, Jesus is juxtaposing the already saved who are truly not in need of a physician, as to those who are truly lost and on their way to perdition. This is not the same principle as the Pharisee and the tax collector in the synagogue - one feeling that he did not need to repent, whereas the other one felt that he could do nothing but repent (the former was self-righteous and deluded).

In each parable, the analogy is about bringing the lost back to where their counterparts already were. This is the implication, they were all already healed, found, or saved. Thus, in all these contexts, Jesus is elucidating the fact that evangelization is of great importance, even at great risk, and that one should not rest on their laurels, complacently dealing with only the already saved (pastorally).
 
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