Help Wanted - Luke 15:7

[2nd Timothy Group]

This passage is a tough one, for me, to understand.

Luke 15:7 KJV - "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

It seems to me that all need repentance. It seems to me that we were all, at one time, sinners.

I don't read commentaries, however, I prefer to talk to others and get their ideas. So . . . how do we make rational sense of this?

 

[Paul Christensen]

This passage is a tough one, for me, to understand.

Luke 15:7 KJV - "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

It seems to me that all need repentance. It seems to me that we were all, at one time, sinners.

I don't read commentaries, however, I prefer to talk to others and get their ideas. So . . . how do we make rational sense of this?

The ninety nine just persons all were sinners at one time and came to repentance one at a time and there was joy in heaven each time. The point is that it is such a great miracle for a lost sinner to come to repentance having been freed from the grip of the kingdom of darkness, that each time a sinner comes to repentance and is born again of the Spirit of God, there is rejoicing in heaven. It shows what great importance that God and the angels put on a sinner coming to repentance and being born again.

The ninety nine just persons don't need further repentance because they have already repented, in that they have turned away from their rebellion against Christ and gone in the opposite direction to embrace Christ. These ones are already on the narrow road to eternal life and have the Holy Spirit within them to support them to the end. But one soul coming to Christ and being born again is seen as a mighty victory for God and because it is not a light thing for Him, He and the rest of heaven have joy and rejoicing over that person.

The trouble is that many churches don't see conversions to Christ as such a big deal other than just another bum on a seat that is the outcome of an outreach to the "unchurched". If they saw a conversion to Christ in the same way that God sees it, there would be so much more rejoicing in our churches.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The ninety-nine just persons all were sinners at one time and came to repentance one at a time and there was joy in heaven each time. The point is that it is such a great miracle for a lost sinner to come to repentance having been freed from the grip of the kingdom of darkness, that each time a sinner comes to repentance and is born again of the Spirit of God, there is rejoicing in heaven. It shows what great importance that God and the angels put on a sinner coming to repentance and being born again.

The ninety-nine just persons don't need further repentance because they have already repented, in that they have turned away from their rebellion against Christ and gone in the opposite direction to embrace Christ. These ones are already on the narrow road to eternal life and have the Holy Spirit within them to support them to the end. But one soul coming to Christ and being born again is seen as a mighty victory for God and because it is not a light thing for Him, He and the rest of heaven have joy and rejoicing over that person.

The trouble is that many churches don't see conversions to Christ as such a big deal other than just another bum on a seat that is the outcome of an outreach to the "unchurched". If they saw a conversion to Christ in the same way that God sees it, there would be so much more rejoicing in our churches.

I hear what you're saying.

Question: If at 8 am, a person repents . . . that person is the newest member of which God should be enthralled over. But at 8:01 am, just one minute later, another person is saved, does this mean that all of a sudden that the person saved at 8 am is no longer a big deal?

All whom the Lord gives to Christ are equal in their worthiness. I wonder if, perhaps, we're looking at the angry brother, jealous that his squanderous brother has come home to the fattened calf, while the other brother, who has always been at his father's side, never once received the fattened calf? But the fact that the brother is angry and jealous, the mindset of the Sin Nature, doesn't this indicate that he is perhaps like the teachers of the Law and/or the Pharisees who also claimed that they were right and just before the Lord?

I don't know. After reading the Luke 15:7 passage, the story of the Lost Son soon followed. It seems that the answer may rest there. It seems that the 99 might represent those who possess a "said faith," meaning that they were people who claimed to be Children of the Lord, but they had never repented and weren't planning on doing so. Hence, "Get away from me, for I never knew you."

What do you think? Possible?

 

[Nancy]

I hear what you're saying.

Question: If at 8 am, a person repents . . . that person is the newest member of which God should be enthralled over. But at 8:01 am, just one minute later, another person is saved, does this mean that all of a sudden that the person saved at 8 am is no longer a big deal?

All whom the Lord gives to Christ are equal in their worthiness. I wonder if, perhaps, we're looking at the angry brother, jealous that his squanderous brother has come home to the fattened calf, while the other brother, who has always been at his father's side, never once received the fattened calf? But the fact that the brother is angry and jealous, the mindset of the Sin Nature, doesn't this indicate that he is perhaps like the teachers of the Law and/or the Pharisees who also claimed that they were right and just before the Lord?

I don't know. After reading the Luke 15:7 passage, the story of the Lost Son soon followed. It seems that the answer may rest there. It seems that the 99 might represent those who possess a "said faith," meaning that they were people who claimed to be Children of the Lord, but they had never repented and weren't planning on doing so. Hence, "Get away from me, for I never knew you."

What do you think? Possible?

Hi 2nd Tim,
I believe you are correct and, I don't think the 99 were saved as they did not repent. Also, as you said, what follows closely is the Prodigal son story. So, I do agree with your take on Luke 15:7
It does not seem the brother repented but just remained angry and jealous.
The thought of putting my own self in the place of the brother who stayed, how would I have felt? It is scary to think of

 

[101G]

The ninety nine just persons all were sinners at one time and came to repentance one at a time and there was joy in heaven each time. The point is that it is such a great miracle for a lost sinner to come to repentance having been freed from the grip of the kingdom of darkness, that each time a sinner comes to repentance and is born again of the Spirit of God, there is rejoicing in heaven. It shows what great importance that God and the angels put on a sinner coming to repentance and being born again.

100% correct.

Question: If at 8 am, a person repents . . . that person is the newest member of which God should be enthralled over. But at 8:01 am, just one minute later, another person is saved, does this mean that all of a sudden that the person saved at 8 am is no longer a big deal?

no, the same Joy at 8 am is also expressed at 8:01, but is not 99% at 8:00 am just as joyous 100% at 8:01? yes, and even more joyous for "ALL", because he have them all, for he looses none.

Just as, in you reward, is your crown at 08:00 am is bigger that the crown given at 08:01 am? NO, all of God's crowns is a one size fit all, (smile). because, there will be no "BIG" head in heaven, only one HEAD, and that's the Lord Jesus.

I suggest one re-read the vineyard worker in Matthews chapter 20.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

It does not seem the brother repented but just remained angry and jealous.

Exactly. These emotions of anger and jealousy, they are the Effectual, or Causal result of the Sinful Nature. The angry brother at home doesn't seem to have his heart right, for if his heart was Truly right, he . . . like his father, would have been overjoyed!

I think it is also important to remember that the Jews were jealous over the inclusion of the Gentiles. Hence, if I didn't already mention that, I should have. :)

Romans 11:13-15 NLT - "I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I stress this, 14 for I want somehow to make the people of Israel jealous of what you Gentiles have, so I might save some of them. 15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

no, the same Joy at 8 am is also expressed at 8:01, but is not 99% at 8:00 am just as joyous 100% at 8:01? yes, and even more joyous for "ALL", because he has them all, for he loses none.

Having been Indwelt by the Spirit of God in a most Powerful way, I know that the Lord's excitement over what has happened to me and in my life will never diminish. Impossible. God is just as happy today as He was in the moment that He found me latitude and longitude, just as much as that first day years ago. But if anything, and now that I am a much better version of myself than I was on the Day of my Indwelling, how much more, then, should God be excited for the Work that He has performed within me? See what I mean?

Colossians 3:25 NLT - "But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites."

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hi 2nd Tim,
I believe you are correct and, I don't think the 99 were saved as they did not repent. Also, as you said, what follows closely is the Prodigal son story. So, I do agree with your take on Luke 15:7
It does not seem the brother repented but just remained angry and jealous.
The thought of putting my own self in the place of the brother who stayed, how would I have felt? It is scary to think of

I think assuming that the ninety nine never repented and therefore were not saved is reading a bit too much into the reference. Jesus said they didn't need repentance, clearly implying that they had repented at one stage and were now justified. We must be careful about making the Bible say things that it does not say.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I hear what you're saying.

Question: If at 8 am, a person repents . . . that person is the newest member of which God should be enthralled over. But at 8:01 am, just one minute later, another person is saved, does this mean that all of a sudden that the person saved at 8 am is no longer a big deal?

All whom the Lord gives to Christ are equal in their worthiness. I wonder if, perhaps, we're looking at the angry brother, jealous that his squanderous brother has come home to the fattened calf, while the other brother, who has always been at his father's side, never once received the fattened calf? But the fact that the brother is angry and jealous, the mindset of the Sin Nature, doesn't this indicate that he is perhaps like the teachers of the Law and/or the Pharisees who also claimed that they were right and just before the Lord?

I don't know. After reading the Luke 15:7 passage, the story of the Lost Son soon followed. It seems that the answer may rest there. It seems that the 99 might represent those who possess a "said faith," meaning that they were people who claimed to be Children of the Lord, but they had never repented and weren't planning on doing so. Hence, "Get away from me, for I never knew you."

What do you think? Possible?

If a soul is saved every minute, then there must be continuous rejoicing in heaven!

This does not imply that the soul already saved is not as precious in God's sight as the new convert. Every saved soul is valuable to God, but the reference is showing that a soul being born again is a great miracle, something to rejoice over. Let's not turn minors into majors by putting the cart before the horse by making the ninety nine the main focus of the reference.

 

[Nancy]

I think assuming that the ninety nine never repented and therefore were not saved is reading a bit too much into the reference. Jesus said they didn't need repentance, clearly implying that they had repented at one stage and were now justified. We must be careful about making the Bible say things that it does not say.

Okay then,
What is meant by those "who do not need to repent"? Are they:

-Not supposed to be real people, just illustrations in the text. So they can have the status "do not need to repent"?
-People who think they don't have the need to repent?
-People who genuinely do not need to repent?

To me, it seems that ALL are to repent to become His child. Look at the Pharisees who thought that they themselves did not need to repent...seems Christ was not so happy with them...so, you could very well be correct yet, I have to stick with what is revealed to myself. Not saying that my interpretation is correct or incorrect.
His blessings,
nancy

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I think assuming that the ninety nine never repented and therefore were not saved is reading a bit too much into the reference. Jesus said they didn't need repentance, clearly implying that they had repented at one stage and were now justified. We must be careful about making the Bible say things that it does not say.

And we must also make sure that we do not miss the intended message that the Lord wants us to have and hold.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If a soul is saved every minute, then there must be continuous rejoicing in heaven!

This does not imply that the soul already saved is not as precious in God's sight as the new convert. Every saved soul is valuable to God, but the reference is showing that a soul being born again is a great miracle, something to rejoice over. Let's not turn minors into majors by putting the cart before the horse by making the ninety nine the main focus of the reference.

Okie Doke.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Okay then,
What is meant by those "who do not need to repent"? Are they:

-Not supposed to be real people, just illustrations in the text. So they can have the status "do not need to repent"?
-People who think they don't have the need to repent?
-People who genuinely do not need to repent?

To me, it seems that ALL are to repent to become His child. Look at the Pharisees who thought that they themselves did not need to repent...seems Christ was not so happy with them...so, you could very well be correct yet, I have to stick with what is revealed to myself. Not saying that my interpretation is correct or incorrect.
His blessings,
nancy

You see what I am seeing, Nancy. In fact, what you've pointed out occurs too often throughout the entire Bible . . . both Old and New Testaments.

Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Luke 16:15 NLT - "Then he said to them, "You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God."

We also have the story of the man born blind, who, when after being enabled to believe in Christ, he Truly did teach the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees . . . who explained, "Are you trying to teach us??!!" Hypocrites.

And how about the folks, which will be the majority, who said, "But . . . Jesus! We were taught by you, even doing your good work!" And Jesus will say, "Away from me, for I never knew you."

In fact, I could create the argument that this is what much of the Bible is based upon . . . people appearing to be righteous when they are not. In fact, is there a greater example than those who had been deported to Samaria, to occupy the land while the Israelites were in captivity? The king of Assyria had heard that the Lord had sent lions to devour those in His Holy Land, so he sent a priest from Israel to teach "them" how to worship the Lord so that the lions would stop devouring them. It worked! However, these abominations (they were from the Seven Nations) were still sacrificing their children to the fire, to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

[Edit - I mean to add] - So, we have these abominations worshipping the Lord, but they're also STILL worshipping Satan. There is NO WAY these people who were successfully worshipping God (to prevent the lion's devouring ways) going to suggest that they would need to repent. After all, they were creating success in their Worship to God . . . they probably believed they were in the right . . . somehow.

 

[Nancy]

You see what I am seeing, Nancy. In fact, what you've pointed out occurs too often throughout the entire Bible . . . both Old and New Testaments.

Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Luke 16:15 NLT - "Then he said to them, "You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God."

We also have the story of the man born blind, who, when after being enabled to believe in Christ, he Truly did teach the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees . . . who explained, "Are you trying to teach us??!!" Hypocrites.

And how about the folks, which will be the majority, who said, "But . . . Jesus! We were taught by you, even doing your good work!" And Jesus will say, "Away from me, for I never knew you."

In fact, I could create the argument that this is what much of the Bible is based upon . . . people appearing to be righteous when they are not. In fact, is there a greater example than those who had been deported to Samaria, to occupy the land while the Israelites were in captivity? The king of Assyria had heard that the Lord had sent lions to devour those in His Holy Land, so he sent a priest from Israel to teach "them" how to worship the Lord so that the lions would stop devouring them. It worked! However, these abominations (they were from the Seven Nations) were still sacrificing their children to the fire, to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

This is the verse I had wanted to add but, hit send before hand. Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Yes, many examples to those who "think" they have nothing to repent of!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

This is the verse I had wanted to add but, hit send before hand. Mark 2:17 NLT - "When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners."

Yes, many examples to those who "think" they have nothing to repent of!

Just read this one in my daily read (which is kind of amazing). Below, we have a completely different story, where Jesus is more concerned about the nine who never returned instead of being overjoyed over the one who did. This keeps becoming more interesting. :)

Luke 17:12-17 NKJV - "Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up [their] voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" 14 So when He saw [them], He said to them, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed. 15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 and fell down on [his] face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. 17 So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where [are] the nine?"

 

[Nancy]

Just read this one in my daily read (which is kind of amazing). Below, we have a completely different story, where Jesus is more concerned about the nine who never returned instead of being overjoyed over the one who did. This keeps becoming more interesting. :)

Luke 17:12-17 NKJV - "Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up [their] voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" 14 So when He saw [them], He said to them, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed. 15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 and fell down on [his] face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. 17 So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where [are] the nine?"

Great catch 2ndTim!
Good timing with your daily reading, lol. Very apt for this subject :) Things are not always what they might seem. It's clear to me that the 99 He was speaking of were the high and mighty folk who think they have no need of forgiveness and repentance. Kind of like the story of the widow's mite being so much more than what the Pharisees gave out of their great wealth, and of course, she is the one who walked away with His blessing.

Mark 12:43" And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box."

"I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent."
Luke 5:32

Everyone needs to repent and I do think the 99 didn't...kind of like when Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, some Christians see the Pharisees here as actually righteous! He wasn't saying that the Pharisees were righteous, He was saying that in order to enter the Kingdom, our "righteousness" must EXEED that of the Pharisees meaning to me, that the so called righteousness they had, was of their selves and, they thought they had no need of Jesus and their Messiah. Without Christ's righteousness, there is nothing but filthy rags IMHO.
In Him!
nancy

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Great catch 2ndTim!
Good timing with your daily reading, lol. Very apt for this subject :) Things are not always what they might seem. It's clear to me that the 99 He was speaking of were the high and mighty folk who think they have no need of forgiveness and repentance. Kind of like the story of the widow's mite being so much more than what the Pharisees gave out of their great wealth, and of course, she is the one who walked away with His blessing.

Mark 12:43" And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box."

"I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent."
Luke 5:32

Everyone needs to repent and I do think the 99 didn't...kind of like when Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, some Christians see the Pharisees here as actually righteous! He wasn't saying that the Pharisees were righteous, He was saying that in order to enter the Kingdom, our "righteousness" must EXEED that of the Pharisees meaning to me, that the so called righteousness they had, was of their selves and, they thought they had no need of Jesus and their Messiah. Without Christ's righteousness, there is nothing but filthy rags IMHO.
In Him!
nancy

All that you are saying is reasonable and makes perfect sense to me (not that I am anything great at all) . . . and our God is certainly reasonable and rational in ALL that He does. In fact, I've found more, which is also from my readings of the day . . .

Luke 18:9-14 NKJV - 9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' 13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

As said, much of the Bible revolves around this concept of self-righteousness, which is what both the Law and physical circumcision brought to Israel. For there were to groups, those of the Circumcision group and those of the uncircumcision. Gentiles were mocked because of their lack of physical, outwardly status. But, God does not look at outward appearances, but instead, judges according to the Heart.

By the way, the one who repented of his sins . . . this sounds like a proper reflection of what it means to be of the Remnant group. For, the Remnant is referred to such for a very, very [BIG] reason.

 

[Enoch111]

So . . . how do we make rational sense of this?

When Jesus said "which need no repentance" He was being ironical. He was speaking of those who presumed that they did not need repentance. Since everyone needs to repent, these people were simply deceiving themselves.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

When Jesus said "which need no repentance" He was being ironical. He was speaking of those who presumed that they did not need repentance. Since everyone needs to repent, these people were simply deceiving themselves.

Indeed. This seems to be the most rational explanation verses suggesting that the 99 were somehow less important or appreciated. I know that God always loves me equally to all people. I am no greater than anyone else, but having felt His Powerful Love, I also know that I am not loved any less.

 

[justbyfaith]

Okay then,
What is meant by those "who do not need to repent"? Are they:

-Not supposed to be real people, just illustrations in the text. So they can have the status "do not need to repent"?
-People who think they don't have the need to repent?
-People who genuinely do not need to repent?

People who genuinely do not need to repent; because they have already done their repenting.

If those who have repented still need to repent, that is like saying that repentance is not...a 180-degree turn away from sin, death and hell and towards righteousness, life, and heaven.

Repentance means a change in direction. if you turn away from sin you are no longer walking towards it. Therefore if you repent a second time, will you not be walking in the direction of sin again? See 2 Corinthians 7:10.