Here we go - Slavery

[ScottA]

I have not accused Christians of being immoral, I have accused them of defending something that is immoral. I doubt I could find any Christian today that agrees with slavers, sex slavery and denying rape victims right not to marry their rapist. I have accused you god of being immoral. Also, you have explained your reasons why and I have explained why I disagree with those reasons.

What you do to God, you do to Christians, and vice versa.

Again, your agreeing or not, is only of consequence to you.

 

[ScottA]

You seem to have the notion that whatever you explain I must accept. I reject your last explanation for reasons I gave in that discussion. If you have new reasons lets hear them, if not then ok.

You will receive more reasons until your last breath. Welcome to the world.

But I have not presented you with a "notion" that you have a choice of accepting or not. That is not what is going on here. The truth doesn't work that way. No, you asked questions, because you do not know the answers. I answered with the truth, because I have the true answers for what you have asked. Like it or not.

 

[Vince]

God gave all men freewill. Pretending you can dictate an others freewill or morality is a fail.

You are avoiding the subject. Men will do bad things. My issue that you keep avoiding is that God wrote the rules to beat slaves, commanded sex slavery and commanded women to marry their rapists. Men are just doing what your god commanded. The issue is not mans free will but gods free will and moral judgement that you seem to agree with.

 

[Vince]

You will receive more reasons until your last breath. Welcome to the world.

But I have not presented you with a "notion" that you have a choice of accepting or not. That is not what is going on here. The truth doesn't work that way. No, you asked questions, because you do not know the answers. I answered with the truth, because I have the true answers for what you have asked. Like it or not.

And you have never demonstrated that you actually know the truth.

 

[ScottA]

And you have never demonstrated that you actually know the truth.

You're still not getting it. This is an open book test. You have all you need.

 

[Vince]

You're still not getting it. This is an open book test. You have all you need.

You don't explain anything and then blame the other person for not understanding.

 

[ScottA]

You don't explain anything and then blame the other person for not understanding.

I have explained everything, and yes, I blame you for refusing to hear it. I did my part. You, on the other hand have not.

 

[Vince]

I have explained everything, and yes, I blame you for refusing to hear it. I did my part. You, on the other hand have not.

I heard it and tried to question it and you refused to be questioned then called me closed minded. I am becoming more convinced that you are not serious but a troll. No one is that illogical.

 

[ScottA]

I heard it and tried to question it and you refused to be questioned then called me closed minded. I am becoming more convinced that you are not serious but a troll. No one is that illogical.

That is a product of you not hearing. So go ahead and project the blame on anyone but yourself, but this is you in the hot seat, not me.

 

[Vince]

That is a product of you not hearing. So go ahead and project the blame on anyone but yourself, but this is you in the hot seat, not me.

A person asking questions is evidence that they are hearing. If I tell my wife something and she asks me a question about it I don't just tell her its her problem and interject some pious BS.

 

[ScottA]

A person asking questions is evidence that they are hearing. If I tell my wife something and she asks me a question about it I don't just tell her its her problem and interject some pious BS.

There is a difference between hearing and listening and what you receive or refuse. The only thing that is evident here, is that with all the explaining and all the listening and conversing, you have received nothing.

 

[Taken]

You are avoiding the subject. Men will do bad things.

My issue that you keep avoiding is that God wrote the rules to beat slaves,

When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

commanded sex slavery

When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

and commanded women to marry their rapists.

When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

Men are just doing what your god commanded.

God established laws for "IF"... certain things occured.

The issue is not mans free will but gods free will and moral judgement that you seem to agree with.

Did you establish household rules for "IF" your children did certain things?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

There is a difference between hearing and listening and what you receive or refuse. The only thing that is evident here, is that with all the explaining and all the listening and conversing, you have received nothing.

Bible says the ones who can't pick up are best left out, as they do not have ears too hear nor eyes too see, they will only be like a wild boar and try to come at you like such.
I had a mate like that for years and their is no hope for them, as they just get everything wrong that you say and then go about twisting it around to their childish gibberish and claiming that they know better than you do, when in fact they have not even past 1st base.

 

[ScottA]

Bible says the ones who can't pick up are best left out, as they do not have ears too hear nor eyes too see, they will only be like a wild boar and try to come at you like such.
I had a mate like that for years and their is no hope for them, as they just get everything wrong that you say and then go about twisting it around to their childish gibberish and claiming that they know better than you do, when in fact they have not even past 1st base.

Thanks, I totally agree. So, my only intent here is to call this one's bluff, to show the error of his ways that he might turn from it, or show him as he truly is. Indeed, we contend with Satan, only for the sake of God's justice.

 

[Vince]

You are avoiding the subject. Men will do bad things.

They are doing these bad things at the explicit direction of their god.

My issue that you keep avoiding is that God wrote the rules to beat slaves,
When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

I have posted this many times. Here it is again:

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Exodus 21:20-21 NIV

commanded sex slavery
When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. Exodus 21:7-8 NIV

and commanded women to marry their rapists.
When and why? Please quote the precise Scripture.

“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. Deut 22:28-29 NIV

Did you establish household rules for "IF" your children did certain things?

Yes, but they are moral rules. I would never beat them with a rod or sell my daughters into sex slavery etc.

 

[Taken]

They are doing these bad things at the explicit direction of their god.


I have posted this many times. Here it is again:

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Exodus 21:20-21 NIV



“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. Exodus 21:7-8 NIV


“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. Deut 22:28-29 NIV


Yes, but they are moral rules. I would never beat them with a rod or sell my daughters into sex slavery etc.

Yes Vince you have posted Scriptures.
You have posted your understanding of those Scriptures....

And the point is your understanding is of a natural man without the basic knowledge of Hebrew men.

You utterly ignore the Caveat of "IF".."THEN".

You are without knowledge of Hebrew customs and traditions.

You repeatedly imply God was authorizing and establishing SEX SLAVES. No He wasn't.

God repeatedly implemented WAYS for men to Overcome INDEBTEDNESS for a period of time and then FORGIVENESS of the DEBT.

And Yes, I totally disagree with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

Yes Vince you have posted Scriptures.
You have posted your understanding of those Scriptures....

And the point is your understanding is of a natural man without the basic knowledge of Hebrew men.

Then show me why these verses don't man what they say,

You utterly ignore the Caveat of "IF".."THEN".

You are without knowledge of Hebrew customs and traditions.

Were those customs taking slaves from neighboring nations and allowing sex slavery?

You repeatedly imply God was authorizing and establishing SEX SLAVES. No He wasn't.

He made rules for it. Why wasn't he then?

God repeatedly implemented WAYS for men to Overcome INDEBTEDNESS for a period of time and then FORGIVENESS of the DEBT.

Leviticus 25 says different. You have never addressed slaves bought from other nations. Those slaves had nothing to do with indebtedness.

And Yes, I totally disagree with you.

Yet you never give reasons why.

 

[Taken]

Then show me why these verses don't man what they say,

No, since I believe Scripture is knowledge and truth.

Were those customs taking slaves from neighboring nations and allowing sex slavery?

You set the premise, then want others to defend what you say.

There is no teaching about Sex Slaves.
There is no teaching about "TAKING" from neighboring nations.

There is Scripture about men choosing a wife for themselves.
There is scripture about Hebrews ACCEPTING Servants/Slaves from neighboring nations, and the Acceptance is according to the TERMS, set by the man of the neighboring nations AND for Hebrews, also according to what God has set as the TERMS.
There is Scripture about men who OWE a debt and can not repay the debt, and have the option to MAKE HIMSELF subject to the will of the one he is indebted to.

You look at and set a premise according to the WORLD, without understanding Gods INTENT of WHY.

WHY would you teach your child you are the Authority, who provides, who protects, whom they can trust?

Did you not want your children to obey, AND believe it is for their best interest, when you said Yes, or you said No?

From the beginning God has taught men, who were like Babes, without knowledge, without historical experiences, FOR the INTENT and PURPOSE those men would become PREPARED to TRUST GOD, and AVOID unpleasant consequences.

It was customary for fathers, to give their daughters to another man WITH A DOWERY.
If that dowery be Money, and agreeable to them, what is that to you?

If a man could not PAY his own debt, and offered his own self in Service to pay off his debt, what is that to you?

If one man stole another man, and then sold the man in a bargain between him and another man, what is that to you?

The BIG PICTURE IS at some point (specifically when Jesus arrived on earth);
Men were given the OPTION, to Hear, Believe, Trust Jesus, and WILLINGLY GIVE HIM the Authority over their Lives.
And with THAT WILLINGNESS of the man to do so, Comes the Give of the Lord TO Forever KEEP the man Unto Himself, WITH HIS POWER.

He made rules for it.

Of course God made the Rules for Slavery....
FOR HIS PEOPLE.

And READ the RULES, which ALL BEGIN WITH "IF", which is the Caveat.

And BEWARE of TO WHOM the Rules were GIVEN.
That which is NOT GIVEN TO YOU, is NOT FOR YOU. (Which is what Applicability is all about.)

Why wasn't he then?

Incomplete thought.

Leviticus 25 says different.

Incomplete thought.

You have never addressed slaves bought from other nations. Those slaves had nothing to do with indebtedness.

I already established, bondsman, servant, slave, etc. have multiple words to describe and each has it's intent and purpose.

Creating Rules for "IF" when something occurs, does not mean the "something" was condoned.

Two men striking a bargain to exchange one thing for another thing, occurs all day long.

You have a problem when one of the "things" is a human person; yet the fact is that has occured from the beginning, to this day.

The INTENT is for men to become PREPARED, to CHOOSE to SURRENDER their LIFE, to the AUTHORITY of Christ Jesus.

Yet you never give reasons why.

The REASON WHY...inanutshell...
All earthly men are Gods Creations.
All Godly men are Gods Inheritance.

Earthly men are naturally born AGAINST God.
The whole intent is for an individual man, to move through the process, and come to a point he is capable of making HIS OWN CHOICE, to become Gods Inheritance.

Scripture is KNOWLEDGE. It is full of EXAMPLES of Godly men and Un-Godly men, and the Consequences for each, and WHY.

It is the INDIVIDUAL man, WHO chooses WHICH Scriptures shall APPLY to Himself.

IN brief...it IS ABOUT individual "APPLICABILITY".

You come to a public forum, where people are Declaring their Belief and Faithfulness and what APPLIES to them....and What is your declaration? "You object to that which DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU" ? Correct?

God NEVER taught to STEAL another man.
Nor will God FORCE a man to Come to Him.

However God has taught a WAY to come to Him, on His terms.
God has taught coming TO HIM, is Once, is Forever, is His desire, is for the Greatest benefit of mankind.

It is not secret, all men are different. Nor will ALL things APPLY to ALL men. Nor are ALL historical ERAS the same.

What you do not like which was taught to very Early Historical men was not FOR YOU.
You have the benefit of thousands of years of historical knowledge and experiences.

And interesting you mentioned Lev 25, but did not seem to recognize the knowledge and purpose of the Jubilee.

Glory to God,
Taken