HERESY?

[1stCenturyLady]

This is simply Fake News from the Hyper Grace teachers. All the epistles of John are written to genuine Christians. And all Christians must examine themselves and deal with their present sins according to John. While he does warn Christians about Gnostic heresies, he is not addressing the Gnostics at all.

Do you believe that you sin willingly, that you go against your own conscience? I'm curious if you believe 1 John 1:6 describes yourself, and therefore is about a born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit, and your interpretation of 1 John 1 is the right one, because it is confirmed in your own life.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe that you sin willingly, that you go against your own conscience? I'm curious if you believe 1 John 1:6 describes yourself, and therefore is about a born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit, and your interpretation of 1 John 1 is the right one, because it is confirmed in your own life.

This is not about sinning "willingly". You sin because the sin nature has not been eradicated. You may not even realize you are sinning, and you may even assume you are being righteous, but only God knows the truth. So if you try to dodge what John is telling you, that in itself is a sin. And misrepresenting Scripture is also a sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is not about sinning "willingly". You sin because the sin nature has not been eradicated. You may not even realize you are sinning, and you may even assume you are being righteous, but only God knows the truth. So if you try to dodge what John is telling you, that in itself is a sin. And misrepresenting Scripture is also a sin.

The sin nature HAS been eradicated in the born again of the Spirit. This doctrine that Jesus did not take care of the problem of sin by creating a new nature in us is a false doctrine. But the true bottom line is do you practice what you preach, or do you actually follow your new conscience, not even giving credit to the power of Jesus in you, and yet He has indeed changed you. If you follow your conscience and live a life worthy of being called a follower of Christ, then the doctrine you teach will be burned, but you will be saved because of your conduct. 1 Corinthians 3:14

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus did not create a new nature, he gave us a new one.

But he did not remove the old one. Paul made it clear in romans 7 he still struggled in doing what he wanted.

He understood what true sin was. He became a pharisee who thought he was sinless. to an apostle who considered himself the chief of all sinners.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG,

Most westerners with a Greek mindset like us, read 1 John 1, just as you do. But those who really study learn the "mindset" of the eastern apostle which can be quite different than the simple way a westerner grasps the words. 1 John 1 is TO Christians, warning them of the false teachers infiltrating the Church - the Gnostics. It is also to those Gnostics that are in John's congregation with their own twisted beliefs. Unfortunately, almost 2000 years later, those false doctrines have taken root in the Church, and has become the most popular in the Church.

The apostle John was using the eastern Semitic writing style of contrasts. It is light (of God) verses darkness (of sin). The Gnostics of verses 6, 8, and 10 taught that sins of the flesh were not sins. Thus they were fellowshipping with God but committing sins of the flesh and believing those sins didn't separate them from God; that they were not sins of the "spirit" so okay with God. Thus they said they didn't sin, even though they did, because they were without the Spirit of God in them, nor could they understand His Word. They were carnal.

Edit: But the bottom line is what you, yourself, practice. Do you commit willful sins, or does your conscience prevent you? There are those who believe as you do in interpreting these verses in 1 John, but do as John's first reason for writing is, 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. Why say that if all Christians still sin and impossible not to? But that is just the doctrine we are discussing. It is what we do in our own lives that truly matters. Therefore, if you follow your conscience and don't go against your conscience, and yet teach others your interpretation of 1 John 1, which is actually contradictory to how you conduct yourself, that is what is meant by conducting yourself in a worthy manner, but teaching a false doctrine. That is the true meaning of another misunderstood scripture by others who believe that 1 John 1:8 is a true Christian, 1 Corinthians 3:14 "If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." Meaning the false doctrine will be burned as untrue, but the righteous Christian will be saved according to his actual conduct.

This is a good post and it'll have to wait till tomorrow, it's just too late and you've said a lot.
I agree about the mindset of westerners...
I agree about the gnostics...
and I like how you described living what one believes....
to be cont'd.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus did not create a new nature, he gave us a new one.

But he did not remove the old one. Paul made it clear in romans 7 he still struggled in doing what he wanted.

He understood what true sin was. He became a pharisee who thought he was sinless. to an apostle who considered himself the chief of all sinners.

EG, read this whole post. Do not just scan it, but open your mind.

Just as long as you do not believe we still have the old one, which I think you do believe. To take away our sin, that is actually taking away our sin nature, not adding to it.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 5:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

Open your mind to distinguish CONTEXT in Romans 7-8. It is about the old law of the Ten Commandments, but the old nature was still there, making it in opposition to God's holy law. All you could hope to do back then was keep the letter of the law which anyone could do with a little will power, but iniquity would still be in the heart, making the secret sin of coveting still breakable, thus breaking the whole law. James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." Coveting was mentioned in Romans 7:7 because it can be unseen by anyone around us, and was hard not to succumb.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. Coveting is part of the old nature. So if we covet it can lead to murder or stealing. Or in my husband's case, adultery with the wife of his best friend.

But someone with the Holy Spirit does not have that struggle with coveting. They have a new nature and the Spirit gives life. But the problem in Christianity is not everyone has been born again. Satan doesn't care if you believe in Jesus, just as long as you still sin. Romans 6:15:16; Matthew 7:21-23. Do not be led away believing someone under the New Covenant still has the old nature they had during the Old Covenant, and their sins were overlooked. Romans 3:25. We are under a higher standard and why Jesus said in Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

EG, Romans 8:1-2 is the conclusion and result of the receiving of the power of the Spirit in a new nature over just the knowledge of the Law.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

So note that Romans 8:2 (the Spirit) makes Romans 7:14-23 no longer true. And to be saved now, we MUST have the Spirit, for without the Spirit you are still under the law which you cannot keep with a sin nature - it must be dead, and recreated - therefore, your sins are no longer overlooked, and we will not go to heaven.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is a good post and it'll have to wait till tomorrow, it's just too late and you've said a lot.
I agree about the mindset of westerners...
I agree about the gnostics...
and I like how you described living what one believes....
to be cont'd.

Sweet dreams, sis!

 

[Davy]

Why would it be an issue if like you say---->Jesus is ALSO pointing to what Judah did in that valley of Hinnom per Jeremiah 7 and Jeremiah 19, sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech.??<----I am just asking for the scripture that would indicate that. The only discussions I see about this trash dump is about punishment for sin. Do you see any scriptures in the Gospels or Revelation about sacrificing children to Molech?

I found a scripture in Acts....Acts 7:43 but it has nothing to do with the trash dump.

And I assume you are trying to prove something about the KJV and Strong's and hell
I am guessing that you are pointing out that the trash dump is translated to hell in some Bibles?

Lord Jesus already linked the Old Testament Jews' burning in the valley of Hinnom to the future "lake of fire" event, and you CANNOT change that, which is all you're trying to do with your tongue of confusion.

 

[Davy]

1 John 1 is TO Christians, warning them of the false teachers infiltrating the Church - the Gnostics. It is also to those Gnostics that are in John's congregation with their own twisted beliefs. Unfortunately, almost 2000 years later, those false doctrines have taken root in the Church, and has become the most popular in the Church.

What an absolute bunch of weeds those above ideas are. And one knows what is to be done with weeds that are good for nothing.

1 John 1 is about the Christian walk; either we walk without regard to sin, not repenting, and thus walk in darkness; or we walk while checking ourselves for sin and repent to Jesus when we do find we have sinned, and He thus cleanses us of all sin and we continue our walk with Him. That is John's Message there to ALL CHRISTIANS. That Message is just as ACTIVE to ALL Christians everywhere today, as it was in Apostle John's day to ALL Christians. Trying to single out a difference with that Message between easterners and westerners is wholly idiotic.

1 John 1:5-10
5 This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
KJV

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 1 is about the Christian walk; either we walk without regard to sin, not repenting, and thus walk in darkness; or we walk while checking ourselves for sin and repent to Jesus when we do find we have sinned, and He thus cleanses us of all sin and we continue our walk with Him. That is John's Message there to ALL CHRISTIANS. That Message is just as ACTIVE to ALL Christians everywhere today, as it was in Apostle John's day to ALL Christians. Trying to single out a difference with that Message between easterners and westerners is wholly idiotic.

What you are describing is someone with a carnal nature still. That is not a true Christian. The power of the new conscience Jesus puts in us PREVENTS US FROM SINNING in the first place, leaving nothing willful and lawless to repent of.

 

[Pearl]

I think heresy is quite a misused term. Indeed I have been branded a heretic for daring to prefer a modern translation of the bible to the KJV.

It isn't even a biblical term.

It isn't even anti God but anti those who think that only they have the truth and so brand all who disagree as heretics.

 

[Grailhunter]

Lord Jesus already linked the Old Testament Jews' burning in the valley of Hinnom to the future "lake of fire" event, and you CANNOT change that, which is all you're trying to do with your tongue of confusion.

Is it in your mind or is it in the scriptures.....that is all I am asking.
I gave you the scriptures and there is no link between the trash dump and the activity that occurred during the Old Testament.

It not something I am arguing against, if you got a scripture that say, And Christ chose the trash dump as a as a reference of a fiery eternal punishment because of the activity that occurred there during the Old Testament. That would be alright with me.

 

[Davy]

What you are describing is someone with a carnal nature still. That is not a true Christian. The power of the new conscience Jesus puts in us PREVENTS US FROM SINNING in the first place, leaving nothing willful and lawless to repent of.

No, what John is describing in 1 John 1 is... YOU, ME, and ALL believers on Christ Jesus.

Apostle John was not the only Apostle that wrote that Message. Apostle Paul also covered it in 1 Timothy 1, Galatians 5, Romans 7 and 8. It's about our Christian walk with Christ Jesus, and our NEED for continued repentance IF... we find ourselves sinning AFTER having believed and been baptized. Paul in Romans revealed it's impossible for us to be perfect in not sinning because of our flesh. And in Galatians 3:22 Paul said we all have been concluded under sin so that the Promise by Faith would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ.

Those who say we have NO further need to repent of sin after believing on Jesus and baptized in His name, are heeding doctrines of devils. Because we are NOT perfect, but can only be 'accounted' perfect through Christ's Blood via repentance, that is why we will still slip up at times and sin.

This is why Jesus told five out of the seven Churches in Asia to 'repent', lest He came upon them when they didn't look for Him, and you know the rest (Revelation 2 & 3).

Bottom line then, we still... need to check ourselves for future sin when we fall into it, and repent to Jesus about it. It's a continual walk with Him, not a you're saved and can now go back to what you were doing thinking.

 

[Davy]

Is it in your mind or is it in the scriptures.....that is all I am asking.
I gave you the scriptures and there is no link between the trash dump and the activity that occurred during the Old Testament.

It not something I am arguing against, if you got a scripture that say, And Christ chose the trash dump as a as a reference of a fiery eternal punishment because of the activity that occurred there during the Old Testament. That would be alright with me.

You've already been shown the 'geena' ("hell") link Jesus gave to the valley of Hinnom. And I already showed you one of the uses that Old Testament Judah used for that valley of Hinnom. Thus you are in DENIAL of God's written Word, and show you are a heretic.

 

[Grailhunter]

'geena' ("hell")

If it meant anything I would responded to it.
Christ was not the one that translated that to hell.
Man, you have a lot of stuff mixed up.
Even the Latin Vulgate was not calling it hell.

 

[Enoch111]

Even the Latin Vulgate was not calling it hell.

That is completely false. Here is what the Douay-Rheims/Latin Vulgate has for Mark 9:44: And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:
Et si pes tuus te scandalizat, amputa illum : bonum est tibi claudum introire in vitam aeternam, quam duos pedes habentem mitti in gehennam ignis inextinguibilis,

Latin Gehennam = Gehenna (from Greek Geena) = Hell = the Lake of Fire.

So do you wish to retract what you said and admit that there is a real Hell, which is the Lake of Fire?

Note: While originally it referred to the valley of Hinnom, that is definitely NOT how Christ used that word.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is completely false. Here is what the Douay-Rheims/Latin Vulgate has for Mark 9:44: And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:
Et si pes tuus te scandalizat, amputa illum : bonum est tibi claudum introire in vitam aeternam, quam duos pedes habentem mitti in gehennam ignis inextinguibilis,

Latin Gehennam = Gehenna (from Greek Geena) = Hell = the Lake of Fire.

So do you wish to retract what you said and admit that there is a real Hell, which is the Lake of Fire?

Note: While originally it referred to the valley of Hinnom, that is definitely NOT how Christ used that word.

Oh you be sparing with the wrong person on linguistics.....LOL.....let me take you to school.

Latin Mark 9:44
et si pes tuus te scandalizat amputa illum bonum est tibi claudum introire in vitam aeternam quam duos pedes habentem mitti in gehennam ignis inextinguibilis

English translation well after the 8th century. LOL
And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting than having two feet to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:

Word History: When the Anglo-Saxons became Christian in early medieval times, the Old English word hel was used to translate the Latin word īnfernus, "the lower region, hell," and designate the fiery place of eternal punishment for the damned. But what did hel designate before the conversion of the Anglo-Saxons? We can discover some indication of the original pagan meaning of hel by examining its Old Norse equivalent, hel. The medieval Scandinavians and Icelanders were converted from paganism much later than the Anglo-Saxons, and they preserved a good deal of pagan poetry revealing the ancient Scandinavian vision of the afterworld. The medieval Icelandic scholar Snorri Sturluson, a Christian, also paints a vivid picture of hel for us in his accounts of Norse myth (although his description may have been influenced by his own Christian conception of hell). The Old Norse hel is the abode of oathbreakers, other evil persons, and those unlucky enough to have died of old age or sickness rather than in the glory of the battlefield. Unlike the typical Christian conception of Hell, the Old Norse hel is very cold. It contrasts sharply with Valhalla, the hall in Asgard where heroes slain in battle carouse with the gods after death. In Old Norse, Hel is also the name of the goddess or giantess who presides in hel. She is the daughter of the god Loki and sister of the enormous wolf that will attack the gods at the end of the world. One half of Hel's body is blue-black, while the other is white. The Indo-European root behind Old English hel and Old Norse hel, as well as their Germanic relatives like German Hölle, "hell," is *kel-, "to cover, conceal." In origin, hell is thus the "concealed place." The root *kel-, also gives us other words for things that cover, conceal, or contain, such as hall, hole, hollow, helmet, and even Valhalla, from Old Norse Valhöll, literally the "Hall (höll) of the Slain (Valr)."

The word hell did not appear in the Tyndale Bible 1534 nor the Geneva Bible 1599.
As far as biblical translations the word hell first appeared in the King James Version of the Bible...1611.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is completely false. Here is what the Douay-Rheims/Latin Vulgate has for Mark 9:44: And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire:
Et si pes tuus te scandalizat, amputa illum : bonum est tibi claudum introire in vitam aeternam, quam duos pedes habentem mitti in gehennam ignis inextinguibilis,

Latin Gehennam = Gehenna (from Greek Geena) = Hell = the Lake of Fire.

So do you wish to retract what you said and admit that there is a real Hell, which is the Lake of Fire?

Note: While originally it referred to the valley of Hinnom, that is definitely NOT how Christ used that word.

Now so, you and I are on the same theological page.
There are people on this forum and this thread....Jehovah's Witnesses and such that are promoting the belief that Yeshua was just a man and hell does not exist. It is not biblical. The Bible explains that hell exist. The Apostles believed in the deity of Christ and that hell exists. The Early Church writers were clear on the fact that hell exists and all of Christianity understands that hell exists and Yeshua was the Son of Yahweh and a full fledged God.

What these people are promoting is straight up a lie....a heresy by definition....look it up. I don't even know why they are allowed on this forum. It could be no worse than witchcraft and no less an attack on Christianity.

Now, I have explained the linguistical evolution of the word hell through the languages about 3 times on this forum and in posts 680 and 693 of this thread. But that is just the history of the word hell not the biblical concept of hell. The biblical concept of hell is a fact. And I stand against the Jehovah Witnesses.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, what John is describing in 1 John 1 is... YOU, ME, and ALL believers on Christ Jesus.

Apostle John was not the only Apostle that wrote that Message. Apostle Paul also covered it in 1 Timothy 1, Galatians 5, Romans 7 and 8. It's about our Christian walk with Christ Jesus, and our NEED for continued repentance IF... we find ourselves sinning AFTER having believed and been baptized. Paul in Romans revealed it's impossible for us to be perfect in not sinning because of our flesh. And in Galatians 3:22 Paul said we all have been concluded under sin so that the Promise by Faith would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ.

Those who say we have NO further need to repent of sin after believing on Jesus and baptized in His name, are heeding doctrines of devils. Because we are NOT perfect, but can only be 'accounted' perfect through Christ's Blood via repentance, that is why we will still slip up at times and sin.

This is why Jesus told five out of the seven Churches in Asia to 'repent', lest He came upon them when they didn't look for Him, and you know the rest (Revelation 2 & 3).

Bottom line then, we still... need to check ourselves for future sin when we fall into it, and repent to Jesus about it. It's a continual walk with Him, not a you're saved and can now go back to what you were doing thinking.

The Bible has already told us what repentance is for. It is to receive the Holy Spirit! Acts 2:38-39. Now think! How many times do you need to receive the Holy Spirit and become born again. Once He is in you, does he go away again, and then you sin? So need Him back again?

Do you find yourself doing things against your own conscience? Is that why you believe 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are true Christians, and not verse 7? How do you confirm that interpretation, and still remain pure so you can go to heaven. 1 John 3:3.

 

[farouk]

The Bible has already told us what repentance is for. It is to receive the Holy Spirit! Acts 2:38-39. Now think! How many times do you need to receive the Holy Spirit and become born again. Once He is in you, does he go away again, and then you sin? So need Him back again?

@1stCenturyLady Romans 8.9 indicates that all true Christians have the Holy Spirit....