HERESY?

[Eternally Grateful]

You have a serious contradiction when you said... The same person is the "messiah" and the "suffering servant".

You know that now.

They could NOT KNOW IT. Because the OT did not state it.

No jew looked to the person who would die for their sin as the messiah.

Did you not look at the post that said that those two word meant the same, but in different languages, and was taken out of Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew word for "Christ" was "Messiah?"
And your verse for that is what? So who told you that "a suffering servant would die for the sin of the people?"

Messiah

1. Will come and take over the world (Is 9: 6-7)
2. Will come and rule the world (Micah 5: 2 - 5)
3. Will vanquish his foes as he rules with a rod of Iron (Ps 2: 7-9)

Gods servant (suffering)

1. Not a king but a servant (Is 53: 2-3)
2. Is rejected oppressed and persecuted (Is 53: 7)
3. He suffered a horrific death (Is 53: 8)
4. His death atones for our sins (is 53: 5, 6, 8)
5. He is raised fro the dead (Is 53: 10)

Looking at these two things, You can not look at them and say they are the same person. Not to mention the fact. The servant was NEVER called the messiah.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

WhyBecause it is not in the Bible...and that is my whole point! It was the imagination of "a person" by the names of Darby and Schofield then taught in Dallas Theological Seminary as well as D. L. Moody and the Moody Institutes as if it were fact. It originated in Scotland and England in the early 1800's and then brought to the USA.

Okay, now I'm interested. What did they teach that you don't agree with? Thanks.

Which two Covenants are you referring to?

The Mosaic Law of the LETTER, the Old Covenant Ten Commandments, which was holy, but superficial, and cannot make us righteous, because of the indwelling carnal nature we still had.

The New Covenant of the SPIRIT where supernaturally the DEEPER laws of God of Agape Love are written on our hearts; not on the old nature that is now dead (Romans 6), but on a new nature we've been given that is free from sin, and empowered with Divine Love. Romans chapters 6 and 8.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Our flesh has its wants and desires, which our spirit battles against. Don't you remember that Jesus said the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak?

Jesus was speaking to people that were still under the Old Covenant, because Jesus was still alive, had not yet been crucified and resurrected, and the Day of Pentecost when His Spirit fell on the devout Jews had not yet happened.

So while here on earth in a flesh body, our spirit inside struggles with our flesh. Our spirit-soul doesn't put on immortality in Christ Jesus until His future return and the change at the twinkling of an eye. Even then, the spirit-soul of the "resurrection of damnation" will still be in a mortal liable to perish state at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Davy, my dear friend, I'm sorry to tell you this and please don't close off and be mad, but your knowledge of being born again of the Spirit is twisted and the truth is non-existent. I doubt very much that is your fault. Your doctrine is common, which is scary. Now open your mind and pray and ask God if what I'm about to say is truth, and read the scriptures I give you that can convince you if your heart wants truth.

Please listen to me. The truth is what is born-again of the Spirit now and makes us dead to sin now IS our spirit-soul, just not our joints and marrow. The old mind and heart and sins of the past are crucified on the cross. They are dead, freeing us to be reborn. Our old spirit-soul is our carnal nature that Paul calls "the flesh." He is not talking about the joints and marrow in Romans 8:9, or Galatians 5:19-21, but our nature. Paul even wrote verse 10 immediately following verse 9 that the body/joints and marrow must still die because of sin of Adam and the curse, and still put on immortality, IF, and only if we have already received immortality in our spirit/soul - born again now. You may think this flies in the face of Romans 7:14-23, and it does absolutely. But that is because those verses pre-date the Church of the New Covenant. They represent the stuggle the Jews had who were under the Law of the Old Covenant and what Jesus was still alive through. That is why Jesus told them "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." The "flesh" was the carnal nature that was still alive and well. The Old Covenant didn't end until the New Covenant arrived on the Day of Pentecost.

Our flesh body, its joints and marrow, will never... become new. Don't you remember what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? Christ's Salvation for the saved is to a "spiritual body", not another flesh body, nor the flesh body we had in this present world. Remember Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit (John 3). Our spirit inside our flesh is what is 'born again', and will put on immortality at Christ's future return. As of right now though, per Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:17, our Faith on Christ Jesus has made us a "new creature", showing there is some kind of change that happens to our spirit by The Spirit of John 3 when we believe on Jesus Christ in this world.

You are very mistaken to believe that becoming born again is not NOW, but must wait until the second coming. There are things that will happen at the second coming, but only for those who are eligible - who are born again before death. You see we must be sin-free at death, and that only can happen by the Holy Spirit indwelling us with a Divine Nature, not the old carnal nature. Flesh and blood, the old nature will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. We MUST be born again now in our conduct. BEFORE DEATH, because then comes the judgment. There is no purgatory. There is no calling Jesus Lord and still maintain the carnal nature that is in love with sin. It must already be dead. Matthew 7:21-23. You must have already confessed you are a sinner and want the power of Jesus' Spirit to be cleansed of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. That includes evil, unlawful desires. We must cooperate with the Holy Spirit and be pure and holy and maintain keeping the commandments of Jesus, abiding in Him, and most importantly, He in us. 1 John 3:3; 1 Peter 1:15-16, 1 John 3:21-24.

 

[Davy]

Jesus was speaking to people that were still under the Old Covenant, because Jesus was still alive, had not yet been crucified and resurrected, and the Day of Pentecost when His Spirit fell on the devout Jews had not yet happened.

I'm starting to give up on you, your mind is so twisted with your fleshy thinking, you cannot even understand how God created us not only with a flesh body, but also with a spirit and a soul that is not of the flesh.

Davy, my dear friend, I'm sorry to tell you this and please don't close off and be mad, but your knowledge of being born again of the Spirit is twisted and the truth is non-existent. I doubt very much that is your fault. Your doctrine is common, which is scary. Now open your mind and pray and ask God if what I'm about to say is truth, and read the scriptures I give you that can convince you if your heart wants truth.

You are so... wrong, you just do not know it, as your are only tying yourself to doctrines of men instead of staying with what God's Word declares in simplicity. And actually, the majority of brethren think Lord Jesus was talking about water baptism in John 3 about being 'born again'.

Please listen to me. The truth is what is born-again of the Spirit now and makes us dead to sin now IS our spirit-soul, just not our joints and marrow. The old mind and heart and sins of the past are crucified on the cross.

Why are you trying to impress with something you don't really know about?

That Hebrews 4:12 verses reveals we have THREE PARTS that God created us with, our flesh body is only ONE PART. The other two is about our spirit and our soul. Ecclesiastes 12 revealed at flesh death, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our 'spirit' goes back to God Who gave it. And you're trying to say that is not so??? And to you Jesus is a liar, because He made plain in John 3 that that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

That means, our 'spirit' is born of GOD. It is NOT of the flesh order.

Like I said, you're trying to impress with something you don't really know about.

You are very mistaken to believe that becoming born again is not NOW, but must wait until the second coming.

I never said we aren't 'born again' right now, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what I DID... say, and that it happens when we believe on Jesus Christ as our Saviour. And I also showed that involves a literal 'change' INSIDE US TO OUR spirit, becoming a "new creature" according to Paul.

As for putting on immortality in Christ Jesus, THAT... has not happened for us alive on earth yet. We must put off these flesh bodies, and put on the body of incorruption, a "spiritual body". AND... our soul ("this mortal") must put on immortality. Paul showed that only happens on the "last trump" per 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian had a lot to say about men sinning:

Clement of Alexandria (195AD)
...For to sin is natural and common to all...but to return to (God) after sinning is characteristic not of any man,
but only of a man of worth.

Tertullian (197AD)
To the Son of God alone was it reserved to persevere to the end without sin.
I know of no one among men who is perfect in all things at once, as long as he is still human.
God alone is without sin. And the only human without sin is Christ, since Christ is also God.

Wow, thanks for these quotes. I see false doctrine started sooner than I thought!

Christians do not have total light. We are constantly growing.
1 Corinthians 13:9-12
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part,
10but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.
11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways.
12For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known.

Now we know in part...
When Jesus comes the partial will be set aside...
Now we know in part,,,but then we will know fully.

Yes, we need to be constantly growing. What 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 is talking about is even with the Bible and the Apostles, we will still only know God partially, not as He knows us. But go to the end of the chapter. At the second coming resurrection is when we will KNOW GOD, even as He already knows us now. We have so much more to know about God.

Philippians 3:16 shows us that when we are given more light (in growing) a true Christian will live up to that amount of light. If we belong to Christ in this way and abide in Him, He makes us only accountable for that amount of light. That would mean that even though there is more sin to be revealed later, we are not held accountable for them if committed, because they are not committed lawlessly - or knowingly. They are not yet sins unto death, or as Catholics say - mortal. (No I'm not Catholic, but there are many Catholics and ex-Catholics on the forum and I want them to also understand what I'm saying. They are unintentional sins, and covered by the blood of Jesus 1 John 1:7. Mortal and venial sins is what 1 John 5:16-17 is talking about.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I asked you to please explain
1 John 2:1
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

It clearly states that we should not sin
BUT IF WE DO SIN...

You remove the problem by stating that there are veniel and mortal sins.
Are you Catholic?
In the very next breath you say we are to be perfect when we become mature.
When does this maturity begin?
Paul says he has to give us milk...maybe we're never really mature?
Maybe the person that sins every now and then is not mature and so is not required to be perfect.

BUT IF WE DO SIN...
means that we WILL sin and when we do sin we have an advocate with the Father.

If you can not sin and never do sin, I believe you are blessed by God.
I know monks that are not even involved in worldly affairs and yet they know they sin.
The POPE goes to confession and knows he is in sin at times.

I'm sorry I frustrated you, but I really thought I answered your question. Clearly there is more to discuss.

As far as "perfection" there are some on here, and doctrines in the church that started shortly after the death of the last apostle, it seems (thanks again for the quotes), that absolutely believe we will be wicked until after Jesus raises us up from the dead, due to an alive carnal nature. No, that old carnal nature is dead, and should remain dead, and we must not again become a slave to the devil. Romans 6:15-16.

GG, have you studied 2 Peter 1:2-11? I'm sure I've given you those verses. They are life changing instructions, especially verses 5-7. Do those over the span of your life and you will be deemed perfect after completing each step Philippians 3:16. Or if I am wrong, at least sinless. But after the last step you will be perfect and never stumble again. (verses 10-11).

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin....
How could you NOT know when you are doing wrong?
I had asked you for some examples of sins that you are not aware of....

James also said that if you KNOW the right thing to do and do NOT do it...it is sin. James 4:17
John and James agree that we know when we're sinning.

Did you read 1 John 5:16? If you did you would know there ARE two types of sin. GG, you must read in context. Don't miss a verse that can answer your question for you.

Sins unto death are major laws that everyone in the whole world knows are wrong - murder - lies - stealing - adultery. There is no excuse, unless their religion vetoes it. Like murdering Jews and Christians is taught in the Quran. "Death to infidels." But to each other - no, they know it would be wrong.

As for an example. I had to think about that one. Okay, I know of one teaching I heard about decades ago, and in the shape of the world right now it seems to be popular, and that is adultery is WRONG, but fornication is actually associated with prostitutes, and not with someone you are dating. If you truly believe that, then your conscience is not bothered by it. When your conscience is clear, you have not sinned. You don't have light on the true meaning of sexual impurities and what that entails. They will find they still have the gifts of the Spirit operating in their life, and Jesus is their Advocate because they commit this sin unknowing that it is sin.

Another is abortion, mainly because of the above sin. This one is a hard one for me. I can't imagine any women to be so hard-hearted, but apathy is real in them. They believe the lie that a fetus is not yet a human being. They have not yet grown in the step of knowledge, let alone virtue, just faith in Jesus. 2 Peter 1:5-7. Once they have knowledge, they can repent and be cleansed. Of course, on the other hand, if they know abortion is murder and out of fear commit this sin knowingly against God, reasoning that all they will have to do is ask forgiveness later, that is like asking Jesus to die again for us when He wiped away all our past sins and sanctified us. Hebrews 10:26-31.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You believe we no longer have the sin nature?
We still have it but it's kept in suppression by the Holy Spirit.
But you don't believe we sin, and so you can also believe we no longer have the sin nature.
Paul speaks of the flesh....
He says not to WALK in the flesh...
We still have it but we are not to walk in it.
I think Romans 8:5 explains this well.

Verse 5 is a general statement to mankind.

You obviously read the verses I gave Enoch, but you don't agree with them?

What I believe is we do not go in and out of the Spirit, but either are slaves to sin, or slaves to righteousness. Romans 6:15-16. There are many who fight this because they still love darkness, and yet don't want to be worthy of hell. So they tell themselves the doctrine of demons that the blood of Jesus will cover your sins as you commit them...

It really all comes down to our conscience, and if we will obey it or go against it. Does our will belong to God, or lusts.

 

[post]

Nope. But if it makes you feel better about the math of the resurrection, I am thinking that Peter will not be handing out a quiz at the pearly gates.

You will give an account for every idle word.

 

[Grailhunter]

You will give an account for every idle word.

I can take you to school if you want.

 

[Enoch111]

You believe we no longer have the sin nature?

You will never get 1stCenturyLady to give up her delusion. She really and truly believes that she has attained sinless perfection (while condemning others).

 

[post]

I can take you to school if you want.

No one wants a degree from a person who thinks Pascha is the 15th.



Exodus 12:6
And yee shall keepe it vntill the fourteenth day of this moneth: then al the multitude of the Congregation of Israel shall kill it at euen.

Leviticus 23:5
In the first moneth, and in the fourteenth day of the moneth at euening shalbe ye Passeouer of the Lord.

Numbers 9:3
In the fourtenth day of this moneth at euen, ye shall keepe it in his due season: according to all the ordinances of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof shall ye keepe it.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Okay, now I'm interested. What did they teach that you don't agree with? Thanks.

I am posting this for you because it is the latest thing I was working on. It is an TV interview with Dr. Charles Ryrie that was transcribed. I have deleted irrelevant chit-chat to save space here. I also highlited some important parts. I also have a good profile of John Nelson Darby if you wish to read that.

The Interview:
DR. CHARLES RYRIE ON THE BIBLE AND DISPENSATIONALISM

Dr. Reagan: I agree, well I appreciate you mentioning that to us. You know, Dr. Ryrie, in 1909, the very first study Bible was produced. And as I understand it, that’s the very first one in history, one where they had notes at the bottom of the page. And that was by a Dallas pastor, C.I. Scofield.

Dr. Reagan: Now, to get back to the Scofield Study Bible. One thing that sort of intrigued me about that, Dr. Ryrie, is that the Scofield Study Bible is still in print. In fact, I think it has a revision committee that revises it every so often. And it is written from what is called a dispensational view point. You also have a dispensational view point so why was it you felt led to put out another study Bible when that one was already there?

Dr. Ryrie:. And my approach is different from the Scofield [Bible]. Not my theology but my approach because the Scofield, the notes are more synthesis, putting things together. So I don’t think while our theology is the same, our approach is different.

Dr. Reagan: I mentioned that Scofield wrote his study Bible from a dispensational viewpoint and you did the same thing. What in the world is a dispensational viewpoint, what does it mean?

Dr. Ryrie: It just recognizes a very simple truth. And that is God has dispensed, dispensational, dispensed the way the rules by which He’s governed the world differently at different times.

Dr. Reagan: So give us an example of two different dispensations.

Dr. Ryrie: Well, I think the clearest example is the set of rules that we call the Law, the Mosaic Law. There are 613 commandments. They govern almost every area of a Jewish person’s life, not only how he worshipped but the things he gave, what he ate. Just everything was governed that way. For example, you and I are probably violating the Mosaic Law. I’m not sure about you but I know about me, because I’m wearing a shirt of mixed material.

Dr. Reagan: Actually, to some degree I guess all Christians are dispensationalists in the sense that they would at least recognize two dispensations, the old and the new. Dispensationalists tend to recognize some seven different dispensations, correct?

Dr. Ryrie: That’s the usual. But I think if you recognize now today the new church grace and the one previous to that, Moses’ law, and if you, as we are, pre-millennialist then you recognize the future one, the millennium, so you’ve got three. Going backwards, the millennium and today and the previous law and the law began at a certain point in time, so there’s a pre-law time. So you’ve got four without trouble, you don’t have to try.

Dr. Reagan: Well it seems to me that another distinguishing characteristic of dispensationalism is that dispensationalists are the only ones that I know of who clearly differentiate between the Church and Israel.

Dr. Ryrie: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: Explain that.

Dr. Reagan: Well it seems to me like this is one of the greatest errors that’s made in the interpretation of the Bible today is the idea that the Church has replaced Israel. And as I mentioned earlier you go to some versions of the Bible and you find that here’s a whole chapter in the Old Testament about Israel. And they say, no it’s a chapter about the Church and they argue that God washed his hands of the Jewish people in the First Century, has no purpose left for them whatsoever and I wonder what they do with Romans 9-11.

Dr. Ryrie: Well there are other passages that distinguish Israel and the Church since the day of Pentecost, at which time the Church was supposed to have begun to replace Israel. The first mention of Church in the book of Acts is in chapter 5. And also in chapter 5, Gamaliel said, “you men of Israel”, same chapter. And of course that’s in 30’s, you get to the 50s, and Paul wrote, “give no offense either to the Jews, Gentiles are the Church of God”, and there’s Jews distinguished from the Church.

Dr. Reagan: Do you know of any place in the Bible where Israel is used to refer to the Church?

Dr. Ryrie: No, there’s one passage that people use but that’s only an optional interpretation of the passage.

Note: Ryrie here reveals his meaning of the separation of the "church" and "Israel" and his revernce for the Scofield Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

No one wants a degree from a person who thinks Pascha is the 15th.



Exodus 12:6
And yee shall keepe it vntill the fourteenth day of this moneth: then al the multitude of the Congregation of Israel shall kill it at euen.

Leviticus 23:5
In the first moneth, and in the fourteenth day of the moneth at euening shalbe ye Passeouer of the Lord.

Numbers 9:3
In the fourtenth day of this moneth at euen, ye shall keepe it in his due season: according to all the ordinances of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof shall ye keepe it.

First lesson.....
The Passover occurs on the night of the full moon. The Hebrew months resets on the New Moon and 15 days later is the Full Moon. The days of the week do not reset....that is why Passover occurs on different days.

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Exodus 12:5-6 The reference to the 14th is reference to the day of preparation....they kill the goat or lamp and eat all of it at the Passover meal. Then Passover starts at dusk....or at the rise of the Full Moon. That starts the Passover holy day and continues on till dusk on the 15th.

The 15th day of the month of Nisan. Why is the month called Nisan now and not Abib? It is a proper noun to call it Abib. It is the first month of the Jewish ecclesiastical year, which is nearly identical to the Gregorian month. Nisan was the name given to this month after the Babylonish captivity.

So the calculation for Passover is the evening of the first full Moon after the Vernier Equinox (Spring) That is the evening of the 14th....the day is the 15th.

On the early morning of the 14th (The morning cock had crowed for Peter John 18:27) The Apostles were watching Christ with Pilot but they did not enter because they wanted to eat the actual Passover meal that evening. -->They lead Jesus therefore from Caiaphas into the Praetorium: and it was early; and they themselves entered not into the Praetorium, that they might not be defiled, but might eat the Passover. John 18:28 The meal that Christ had eaten with the Apostles was not the actual Passover meal, because He would not be with them for the actual Passover meal. But the Apostles were hoping to eat the actual Passover meal that would occur that evening of the 14th....Friday.

So it was the Last Supper and the betrayal in the garden of Gethsemane occurred on the 13th day Thursday. The cock crowed in the morning of the 14th and Christ was before Pilot in the early morning on the 14th and crucified on the same day....Of course this all has to occur before dusk on Friday the 14th or there would have been a Jewish uprising.

So as was the custom....the Jews were eating the Passover meal shortly after Christ died on the cross. And as you can see in the scriptures there was a concern to get Christ's body off the cross before dusk so it would not be on the Cross for the Sabbath or Passover that both started at dusk.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm starting to give up on you, your mind is so twisted with your fleshy thinking, you cannot even understand how God created us not only with a flesh body, but also with a spirit and a soul that is not of the flesh.



You are so... wrong, you just do not know it, as your are only tying yourself to doctrines of men instead of staying with what God's Word declares in simplicity. And actually, the majority of brethren think Lord Jesus was talking about water baptism in John 3 about being 'born again'.



Why are you trying to impress with something you don't really know about?

That Hebrews 4:12 verses reveals we have THREE PARTS that God created us with, our flesh body is only ONE PART. The other two is about our spirit and our soul. Ecclesiastes 12 revealed at flesh death, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our 'spirit' goes back to God Who gave it. And you're trying to say that is not so??? And to you Jesus is a liar, because He made plain in John 3 that that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

That means, our 'spirit' is born of GOD. It is NOT of the flesh order.

Like I said, you're trying to impress with something you don't really know about.




I never said we aren't 'born again' right now, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what I DID... say, and that it happens when we believe on Jesus Christ as our Saviour. And I also showed that involves a literal 'change' INSIDE US TO OUR spirit, becoming a "new creature" according to Paul.

As for putting on immortality in Christ Jesus, THAT... has not happened for us alive on earth yet. We must put off these flesh bodies, and put on the body of incorruption, a "spiritual body". AND... our soul ("this mortal") must put on immortality. Paul showed that only happens on the "last trump" per 1 Corinthians 15.

Obviously you didn't understand a thing I said.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am posting this for you because it is the latest thing I was working on. It is an TV interview with Dr. Charles Ryrie that was transcribed. I have deleted irrelevant chit-chat to save space here. I also highlited some important parts. I also have a good profile of John Nelson Darby if you wish to read that.

The Interview:
DR. CHARLES RYRIE ON THE BIBLE AND DISPENSATIONALISM

Dr. Reagan: I agree, well I appreciate you mentioning that to us. You know, Dr. Ryrie, in 1909, the very first study Bible was produced. And as I understand it, that’s the very first one in history, one where they had notes at the bottom of the page. And that was by a Dallas pastor, C.I. Scofield.

Dr. Reagan: Now, to get back to the Scofield Study Bible. One thing that sort of intrigued me about that, Dr. Ryrie, is that the Scofield Study Bible is still in print. In fact, I think it has a revision committee that revises it every so often. And it is written from what is called a dispensational view point. You also have a dispensational view point so why was it you felt led to put out another study Bible when that one was already there?

Dr. Ryrie:. And my approach is different from the Scofield [Bible]. Not my theology but my approach because the Scofield, the notes are more synthesis, putting things together. So I don’t think while our theology is the same, our approach is different.

Dr. Reagan: I mentioned that Scofield wrote his study Bible from a dispensational viewpoint and you did the same thing. What in the world is a dispensational viewpoint, what does it mean?

Dr. Ryrie: It just recognizes a very simple truth. And that is God has dispensed, dispensational, dispensed the way the rules by which He’s governed the world differently at different times.

Dr. Reagan: So give us an example of two different dispensations.

Dr. Ryrie: Well, I think the clearest example is the set of rules that we call the Law, the Mosaic Law. There are 613 commandments. They govern almost every area of a Jewish person’s life, not only how he worshipped but the things he gave, what he ate. Just everything was governed that way. For example, you and I are probably violating the Mosaic Law. I’m not sure about you but I know about me, because I’m wearing a shirt of mixed material.

Dr. Reagan: Actually, to some degree I guess all Christians are dispensationalists in the sense that they would at least recognize two dispensations, the old and the new. Dispensationalists tend to recognize some seven different dispensations, correct?

Dr. Ryrie: That’s the usual. But I think if you recognize now today the new church grace and the one previous to that, Moses’ law, and if you, as we are, pre-millennialist then you recognize the future one, the millennium, so you’ve got three. Going backwards, the millennium and today and the previous law and the law began at a certain point in time, so there’s a pre-law time. So you’ve got four without trouble, you don’t have to try.

Dr. Reagan: Well it seems to me that another distinguishing characteristic of dispensationalism is that dispensationalists are the only ones that I know of who clearly differentiate between the Church and Israel.

Dr. Ryrie: Absolutely.

Dr. Reagan: Explain that.

Dr. Reagan: Well it seems to me like this is one of the greatest errors that’s made in the interpretation of the Bible today is the idea that the Church has replaced Israel. And as I mentioned earlier you go to some versions of the Bible and you find that here’s a whole chapter in the Old Testament about Israel. And they say, no it’s a chapter about the Church and they argue that God washed his hands of the Jewish people in the First Century, has no purpose left for them whatsoever and I wonder what they do with Romans 9-11.

Dr. Ryrie: Well there are other passages that distinguish Israel and the Church since the day of Pentecost, at which time the Church was supposed to have begun to replace Israel. The first mention of Church in the book of Acts is in chapter 5. And also in chapter 5, Gamaliel said, “you men of Israel”, same chapter. And of course that’s in 30’s, you get to the 50s, and Paul wrote, “give no offense either to the Jews, Gentiles are the Church of God”, and there’s Jews distinguished from the Church.

Dr. Reagan: Do you know of any place in the Bible where Israel is used to refer to the Church?

Dr. Ryrie: No, there’s one passage that people use but that’s only an optional interpretation of the passage.

Note: Ryrie here reveals his meaning of the separation of the "church" and "Israel" and his revernce for the Scofield Bible.

Thanks, I saved it into a private document and printed it. I'll read it in bed tonight.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You will never get 1stCenturyLady to give up her delusion. She really and truly believes that she has attained sinless perfection (while condemning others).

I gave you scriptures that completely undermined your post. Refer to #794 and #795. Talk about delusions. The Word of God is truth. Believe it, not your carnal and unscriptural twisted beliefs. Even after showing the scriptures that gave you the truth, you didn't respond, let alone repent, and now just slander me to others. But getting a man - any man - to admit they were wrong, let alone learn from a woman is like taking a stubborn mule to water, but he won't drink.

 

[Enoch111]

I gave you scriptures that completely undermined your post.

Actually you are the one who is constantly and carnally misinterpreting Scripture. And it would be a total waste of time to show you your errors.

 

[Enoch111]

I am posting this for you because it is the latest thing I was working on. It is an TV interview with Dr. Charles Ryrie that was transcribed. I have deleted irrelevant chit-chat to save space here. I also highlited some important parts. I also have a good profile of John Nelson Darby if you wish to read that.

So your specialty and agenda is to simply attack Christians who hold to Dispensationalism and keep on calling it "heresy". But that is TOTAL NONSENSE. Why don't we create a good profile of you?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Actually you are the one who is constantly and carnally misinterpreting Scripture. And it would be a total waste of time to show you your errors.

Others can judge between us. People read #794 and #795.

 

[Enoch111]

Note: Ryrie here reveals his meaning of the separation of the "church" and "Israel" and his reverence for the Scofield Bible.

1. Had you studied the original Scofield Reference Bible personally (which I have done and which I own) you would have commended C. I. Scofield for the excellent work he has done. Instead you have been slandering him.

2. Neither Ryrie, nor Scofield, nor Darby originated the distinction between the Church and Israel. It was Paul himself who first made it clear to Christians in Romans 11 that God has an eternal plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel (also called "Jacob") apart from the Church. Every Christian should have been on the same page regarding this matter. And what Paul said briefly is fully revealed in the OT. So this is a Bible doctrine, not merely a Dispensational doctrine.

ROMANS 11: GOD'S FUTURE GRACIOUS PLAN FOR ISRAEL
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.