HERESY?

[Bob Carabbio]

when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

When it's a CRITICALLY IMPORTANT error. For example: "salvation by WORKS and not through FAITH alone" would be an error that would send folks to HELL - so "Heretical".

 

[Jim B]

True. Now who knows your real name here ... so let's say your real name or name and surname are Enoch Pater. So you're Pater aren't you? Or would have been would this have been your real name?
God the Father's Son as sure as his Father is God the Father is God the Father Himself. ISAIAH 9:6

I have no idea what you mean. You're writing some very confusing stuff.

 

[JesusFan1]

When it's a CRITICALLY IMPORTANT error. For example: "salvation by WORKS and not through FAITH alone" would be an error that would send folks to HELL - so "Heretical".

Yes, any teaching or doctrine that deviates from essential core truths is heresy, such as must be water baptized to be saved, must speak in tongues to be saved, no physical resurrection etc!

 

[Jim B]

Yes, any teaching or doctrine that deviates from essential core truths is heresy, such as must be water baptized, must speak in tongues, no physical resurrection etc!

Water baptism, speaking in tongues, and no physical resurrection are heretical? Never mind "etc", which can apply to anything.

 

[JesusFan1]

Water baptism, speaking in tongues, and no physical resurrection are heretical? Never mind "etc", which can apply to anything.

Water baptism, speaking in tongues, and no physical resurrection are heretical? Never mind "etc", which can apply to anything.

I went back and edited, meant to state saying one must be water baptized to be saved, must speak in tongues to be saved is heresy!

 

[Jim B]

I went back and edited, meant to state saying one must be water baptized to be saved, must speak in tongues to be saved is heresy!

I agree 100%.

 

[bbyrd009]

Men put LORD in the OT-God put YHWH in the OT. Men had no right removing it.

right?

 

[Keiw]

Tell that to the Old Testament people about their Jewish god of one nation. Love and reason my foot. They stole from their parents and neither do I see you doing any reasoning.
.

Sin entered the picture after the rebellion in Eden. I reason clearly i checked into Facts. Israel' God was never a trinity. God does not change. They changed him at a council about the year 380. In their own encyclopedia they say the apostles knew nothing of God being a trinity. Neither did Jesus then as well.

 

[JesusFan1]

Sin entered the picture after the rebellion in Eden. I reason clearly i checked into Facts. Israel' God was never a trinity. God does not change. They changed him at a council about the year 380. In their own encyclopedia they say the apostles knew nothing of God being a trinity. Neither did Jesus then as well.

God the Father was in Genesis 1, as was the Holy Spirit, and there was the Angel of the Lord, separate from Yahweh but also called yahweh!

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I like 2 Timothy 3:12 because it tells what we are to do to know the truth.

I think we've come to the consensus that a false teaching is something small and perhaps even insignificant in the grand scheme of things...whereas heresy has to do with something that is critical to being a Christian or understanding what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

Would you agree?

 

[GodsGrace]

HERESY...not complicated.

Standing Faith IN the Creator.
Or Heresy OF;
Standing Faith UPON the Created.

I agree with the above...
but maybe it goes deeper?

A heresy is a teaching that is not considered to be part of Christianity,
or maybe we could say a teaching that brings us away from Jesus instead of trying to understand Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Father sends one to Jesus to start with. Those who learn Jesus truth and obey him, those Jesus sends to his Father.
In the verses you shared you see Jesus telling all The Father sent him. And at John 17:1-6,26- a prayer to his Father Jesus tells all-the one who sent him is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. verse 6= YHWH(Jehovah) verse 26= YHWH(Jehovah)--

There IS only One True God.
Christianity believes there is only one God.
Did you think there are 3 gods in the Godhead?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank you for confirming what I wrote earlier: Jesus is God's Son and one of the three persons of the Godhead. He is not and never will be God the Father.

Your statement that there is only one God, so there are three divine persons within the Godhead is equating one person -- God -- with the other two: Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They are separate.

@Jim B , I want to make sure I'm understanding your position correctly:
You believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons. They make up 1 Godhead. 1 Godhead = 1 God.
Is that correct? If not, please correct me where I'm off.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus explained many times that even though the Pharisees had the Bible they didn't understand its true meaning. So much for orthodoxy. If Jesus is God the Father, why would He pray to God, i.e., pray to Himself? Jesus is God's Son and one of the three persons of the Godhead. He is not and never will be God the Father.

You could believe Jesus is God the Father, but perhaps you should stop trying to convince others because it's not that you're trying to understand -- which would be OK...you're spreading heresy.

You wouldn't know that the persons in the Trinity speak to each other because you do not care to learn or understand the Trinity.

As to my spreading heresy...
Christianity was defined right after Jesus died and was resurrected when the Apostles taught what He taught.

It's not up to US to decide what Christianity is or is not.

You are not teaching what the Apostles taught...and thus you are teaching heresy.
The Apostles understood that Jesus is God. THIS is what they taught.

I do believe they knew Jesus better than anyone on this forum does.

John 20:28
28Thomas exclaimed...My Lord and My God. (after seeing Jesus alive again).

Titus 1:3
3But at the proper time manifested His Word...

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

Titus 1:13
3...our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

When it alters or distorts essential Christian doctrines

Agreed.
And I believe the word ESSENTIAL is key.
There are also false teachings which do not qualify as heretical.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, the 3000 in Acts 2 were the original Church because they obeyed Acts 2:38.

The RCC is a total fraud.

Your church has a Capital C --- so I agree with you.

If the Catholic Church was not the original church (small c)
then which one was it in your opinion?

And I'm not speaking about the current Catholic Church which is not recognizable from the original Catholic Church.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You wouldn't know that the persons in the Trinity speak to each other because you do not care to learn or understand the Trinity.

As to my spreading heresy...
Christianity was defined right after Jesus died and was resurrected when the Apostles taught what He taught.

It's not up to US to decide what Christianity is or is not.

You are not teaching what the Apostles taught...and thus you are teaching heresy.
The Apostles understood that Jesus is God. THIS is what they taught.

I do believe they knew Jesus better than anyone on this forum does.

John 20:28
28Thomas exclaimed...My Lord and My God. (after seeing Jesus alive again).

Titus 1:3
3But at the proper time manifested His Word...

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

Titus 1:13
3...our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

To share a different perspective here. I 100% agree that we don't get to decide what's God's Truth is. But for me God's Truth is not the same thing as the writers of the Creeds said because I don't find those writers to be infallible. Bu I do love God & His Gospel.

 

[GodsGrace]

To share a different perspective here. I 100% agree that we don't get to decide what's God's Truth is. But for me God's Truth is not the same thing as the writers of the Creeds said because I don't find those writers to be infallible. Bu I do love God & His Gospel.

have to sign off...
Are the modern writers you ascribe to infallible?

Who do you think wrote the N.T.?
Who do you think gathered the books and assembled it?

Since it was infallible men...maybe we should stop reading it altogether?

Why trust anyone since no one is infallible....

HOW could we know God's truth if we can't even agree what that truth is?
Does God choose who will be saved or do we have a part in it?
Can we abandon God and lose our salvation?
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
Are we required to do good works?

I didn't even mention the creeds...
It was believed that Jesus was God before the creeds...
The first one was exactly to get that straight and out of the way...

 

[GodsGrace]

@Jim B , I want to make sure I'm understanding your position correctly:
You believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons. They make up 1 Godhead. 1 Godhead = 1 God.
Is that correct? If not, please correct me where I'm off.

Sometimes I think it's impossible to speak about the Godhead/Trinity !
I wish we could all use the same language - even if there's disagreement.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

have to sign off...
Are the modern writers you ascribe to infallible?

Who do you think wrote the N.T.?
Who do you think gathered the books and assembled it?

Since it was infallible men...maybe we should stop reading it altogether?

Why trust anyone since no one is infallible....

HOW could we know God's truth if we can't even agree what that truth is?
Does God choose who will be saved or do we have a part in it?
Can we abandon God and lose our salvation?
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
Are we required to do good works?

I didn't even mention the creeds...
It was believed that Jesus was God before the creeds...
The first one was exactly to get that straight and out of the way...

The Creeds came up because it is there description of God that I disagree with. I've encountered people in the past that hold the position that "well if you don't hold the ECF as infallible, then you must not believe Christ", as stance I disagree with.

I don't believe what any man said just because the man said it-- I check with God to confirm that both this person is His servant and this particular message is in align with God's Truth.