For those interested in sharing Christ with Muslims, you might like this video. Interesting and fairly short.
Historian shares how Islam really began
- Thread starter Debp
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Gray_Joy
Well-Known Member
I love the YouTube Cross Examined channel.
Short and sweet. I enjoyed that video. Thank you for sharing it with us.
What he observed about New York mayor was curious.
Maybe the reason the Mayor didn't finish his sentence about how his faith began is because of what was said about the Jews and Muhammad's eradication of them.
There's a huge Jewish population in NY.
edit phrasing
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Present. I’ve been doing a significant amount of writing on the subject of evangelizing Muslims. Knowing and understanding history is essential.
Armour of God
Well-Known Member
Islam was founded on war, just look at the land they took over by the year 800AD all by war and conquest
There‘s a vicious rumor circulating on the forum which asserts that I’m a Muslim apologist. It started a couple of months ago. The rumor is false. The handful of members who started the rumor - I’m not going to name them - haven’t retracted it, nor have they apologized for it.
I’m not an apologist for Islam. I’m not an apologist for Judaism. I’m an apologist for primitive Christianity.
I’m not an apologist for Islam. I’m not an apologist for Judaism. I’m an apologist for primitive Christianity.
Because of what I’m about to say, it was important for me to address the rumor started by “Christian” members that I’m a Muslim apologist.
I said in post #3 that it’s essential for us to know and understand history. The historian in the OP makes a small mistake that a trained Muslim apologist would likely jump on and use to try to discredit you.
At the 1:13 mark the historian says, “… finally you have a Christian Roman empire, 313 AD with Constantine. …”
313 AD is an important date in Christian history - every Christian should have the date memorized - but it does not mark the date that we have a “Christian Roman Empire”. I’m certain the Christian historian knows that. He is alluding to the Edict of Milan. The Edict didn’t establish Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. In issuing the Edict, the state officially changed its policy on Christianity, tolerating it, putting it on an equal footing with paganism.
Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in 380 AD, under the reign of Theodosius. (See The Edict of Thessalonica.)
The historian knows all of this. If you’re going to evangelize Muslims, you need to know it too. Have your facts straight. If you don’t, you’re going to get dragged down a rabbit hole.
P.S.
This brief article discusses the Edict of Milan. In a matter of a couple of minutes, you will be sufficiently prepared to answer basic questions about it.
This article discusses the Edict of Thessalonica. A little longer than the article on the Edict of Milan but, with only a little effort, you will be sufficiently prepared to answer basic questions about it.
amazingbibletimeline.com
You can always consult books and other articles if you want or need to go deeper into the subject.
I said in post #3 that it’s essential for us to know and understand history. The historian in the OP makes a small mistake that a trained Muslim apologist would likely jump on and use to try to discredit you.
At the 1:13 mark the historian says, “… finally you have a Christian Roman empire, 313 AD with Constantine. …”
313 AD is an important date in Christian history - every Christian should have the date memorized - but it does not mark the date that we have a “Christian Roman Empire”. I’m certain the Christian historian knows that. He is alluding to the Edict of Milan. The Edict didn’t establish Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. In issuing the Edict, the state officially changed its policy on Christianity, tolerating it, putting it on an equal footing with paganism.
Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in 380 AD, under the reign of Theodosius. (See The Edict of Thessalonica.)
The historian knows all of this. If you’re going to evangelize Muslims, you need to know it too. Have your facts straight. If you don’t, you’re going to get dragged down a rabbit hole.
P.S.
This brief article discusses the Edict of Milan. In a matter of a couple of minutes, you will be sufficiently prepared to answer basic questions about it.
What was the Edict of Milan? | GotQuestions.org
What was the Edict of Milan? Why did Constantine and Licinius issue the Edict of Milan?
www.gotquestions.org
This article discusses the Edict of Thessalonica. A little longer than the article on the Edict of Milan but, with only a little effort, you will be sufficiently prepared to answer basic questions about it.
Christianity Became the State Religion – Amazing Bible Timeline with World History
Theodosius I and the Edict of Thessalonica After many years of persecution at the hands of the Roman authorities, Christianity became the Roman empire’s sole state religion through the Edict of Thessalonica as decreed by the emperor Theodosius I (along with co-emperor Gratian). This is recorded...
amazingbibletimeline.com
You can always consult books and other articles if you want or need to go deeper into the subject.
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A word of caution about using Christian historians in evangelizing Muslims. Muslims may object, saying that Christian historians are biased against Islam. Be prepared. Anticipate it before you begin evangelizing Muslims.
Can you see it from a Muslim’s perspective? If you can’t, try reversing the situation.
A Muslim is evangelizing you, a Christian, using Islamic historians to do it. Would you object? Would you say that Islamic historians are biased against Christianity? I think you very well might.
What should we do then in regard to this potential problem?
Can you see it from a Muslim’s perspective? If you can’t, try reversing the situation.
A Muslim is evangelizing you, a Christian, using Islamic historians to do it. Would you object? Would you say that Islamic historians are biased against Christianity? I think you very well might.
What should we do then in regard to this potential problem?
Was Islam founded on war? We have to be sure before we make that assertion to a Muslim.
AI Overview replies -
“Islam was not founded on war, but rather as a spiritual and social movement. However, armed conflict quickly became a central part of its survival and early expansion.
Historians and Islamic scholars generally break this down into three primary factors:
• Peaceful Origins: The first 13 years of Islam in Mecca were defined by peaceful preaching, the moral reform of society, and the severe persecution of early Muslims by the ruling Quraysh tribe
• Survival and Self-Defense: To escape assassination, the Prophet Muhammad and his followers migrated to Medina in 622 CE (the Hijara). The early Islamic community engaged in armed conflict primarily for survival, to protect their new state, and to defend religious freedom against the attacking Meccans.
• Political Expansion: Following the stabilization of Arabia, the early Islamic Caliphates expanded rapidly through military conquest, absorbing weakened empires (such as the Byzantine and Sasanian) and establishing a vast empire spanning from Spain to Central Asia.”
The map is accurate but it doesn’t support the assertion that Islam was founded on war.
If we approach Muslims with the assertion that “Islam was founded on war” we won’t succeed in evangelizing them.
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Returning to the video. The historian stated, correctly, that Muhammad was born in 570 AD. But there is a problem with the presentation. Did you notice it? A Muslim would.
The graphic at that point in the presentation - which occurs at about the 1:45 mark - says “Muhammad Born - 575 AD”.
That’s a five year difference. Someone made a mistake with the graphic and no one caught it and corrected it before the presentation was made.
What the historian said is right. What the graphic said is wrong. What will the reaction of the Muslim be?
Even if the Muslim is gracious about the mistake with the graphic - some will be, some will not be - a bad first impression is made on the Muslim.
How successful are we when we make a bad first impression on anyone? How much work does it take to overcome a bad first impression? Will we even be given a second chance?
The graphic at that point in the presentation - which occurs at about the 1:45 mark - says “Muhammad Born - 575 AD”.
That’s a five year difference. Someone made a mistake with the graphic and no one caught it and corrected it before the presentation was made.
What the historian said is right. What the graphic said is wrong. What will the reaction of the Muslim be?
Even if the Muslim is gracious about the mistake with the graphic - some will be, some will not be - a bad first impression is made on the Muslim.
How successful are we when we make a bad first impression on anyone? How much work does it take to overcome a bad first impression? Will we even be given a second chance?
I think @Armour of God was referring to Islam conquering by the sword.
Also I didn't necessarily post the video for Christians to use with Muslims. But I think when we have some ideas of what Islam teaches or it's foundations...then we can clearly see we are dealing with a demonically inspired religion.
It certainly has done that.
I’ve asked Muslims what they think about Christian videos similar to the one you posted in this thread. Typically they either laugh at them or are angered by them. Either way, that tells me that showing them videos like this makes them less receptive to hearing what we have to say.
Evangelizing Muslims is hard, and should be. We have to be careful not to make it harder than it has to be.
Generally speaking, the average Christian doesn’t know much about what Islam teaches and ots foundation. For example, when I ask Christians if they’ve read a translation of the Quran, the majority has responded that they haven’t.
Few among Christians who say they have go on to say that they have read the Quran. I made that mistake when I first became involved in evangelizing Muslims. I think I’ve mentioned the story here but might not have.
To make a long story short, a Muslim friend gifted me an English translation of the Quran. I read it quickly, which surprised him, and I asked him a lot of questions about it. He and I were discussing it one day in the presence of some Muslims and one of them asked me if I had ever read the Quran. I told him that I had. He then asked if I knew Arabic. I told him I didn’t and the entire group started laughing. I didn’t understand why. They also started speaking to one another in Arabic. I didn’t understand what they were saying but, whatever it was, it angered my friend. He chewed them out, in English, and they left.
I asked him what happened and he told me that they were testing me. Testing me? He said that unless you’ve read the Quran in Arabic, you haven’t read the Quran. Never, ever, tell a Muslim that you’ve read the Quran if you’ve only read a translation.
Okay. I learned something. So why were they laughing. He told me that they were mocking me; that I was an idiot who thought he knew something and didn’t. The first impression I made on them was a bad one, and there was no recovering from it.
Muslim’s have often told me that Christianity is a corrupted religion. Care to guess how receptive that made me to their evangelism?
I follow an ex-Muslim Christian apologist on X / Twitter. We can learn a lot about how to and how not to evangelize Muslims from people like him.
His name is Shahriq Khan. Three hours ago he posted this -
“When I was Muslim, I didn’t hate Jesus.
I just felt like every time Christians brought Him up, they were attacking everything I loved.
My family and community. My identity and worldview.
That’s why so many Muslims go into defense mode when you try to evangelize them. Not because they don’t care about truth. Because it feels like you’re disrespecting their entire life.
So when you lead with, ‘Islam is false’ or ‘Jesus is the Son of God,’ you’re not planting seeds.
You’re swinging at roots. Even if you’re right, you’re probably too early.
What changed my life wasn’t an argument. It was a question.
’Do you ever feel like you’re doing everything right but still don’t know where you stand with God?’
That hit me.
’Do you ever wonder why mercy feels like something you still have to earn?’
That hit me too. ‘Do you ever pray and feel like nobody is listening?’
I lived there for years. Jesus doesn’t need hype. He just needs space to reveal Himself in the places people are already hurting.
So stop talking to Muslims like they’re lost. Talk to them like they’re searching, but scared.
Ask questions, listen: Because the person who finally reached me didn’t start with a verse.
He started with a question that broke open my silence.”
x.com
His name is Shahriq Khan. Three hours ago he posted this -
“When I was Muslim, I didn’t hate Jesus.
I just felt like every time Christians brought Him up, they were attacking everything I loved.
My family and community. My identity and worldview.
That’s why so many Muslims go into defense mode when you try to evangelize them. Not because they don’t care about truth. Because it feels like you’re disrespecting their entire life.
So when you lead with, ‘Islam is false’ or ‘Jesus is the Son of God,’ you’re not planting seeds.
You’re swinging at roots. Even if you’re right, you’re probably too early.
What changed my life wasn’t an argument. It was a question.
’Do you ever feel like you’re doing everything right but still don’t know where you stand with God?’
That hit me.
’Do you ever wonder why mercy feels like something you still have to earn?’
That hit me too. ‘Do you ever pray and feel like nobody is listening?’
I lived there for years. Jesus doesn’t need hype. He just needs space to reveal Himself in the places people are already hurting.
So stop talking to Muslims like they’re lost. Talk to them like they’re searching, but scared.
Ask questions, listen: Because the person who finally reached me didn’t start with a verse.
He started with a question that broke open my silence.”
Shahriq Khan (@RealShahriqKhan) on X
When I was Muslim, I didn't hate Jesus. I just felt like every time Christians brought Him up, they were attacking everything I loved. My family and community. My identity and worldview. That's why so many Muslims go into defense mode when you try to evangelize them. Not
@Matthias Do you know there are about 27 different Qurans? Muslims claim there is only one Quran.
Hatun Tash was in the Middle East and buying a Quran. She was surprised when he asked her which one. After that she sought out different Qurans and ended up with about 27. She took them to Speaker's Corner in London and would show them to Muslims.
Hatun Tash was in the Middle East and buying a Quran. She was surprised when he asked her which one. After that she sought out different Qurans and ended up with about 27. She took them to Speaker's Corner in London and would show them to Muslims.
I’ve seen it. That’s an example of the wrong way to evangelize Muslims.
It often makes them angry; and angry people aren’t interested in hearing what we have to say. In some instances, they will unleash lethal violence in response.
They also have an apologetic which they use to render the argument harmless to Islam.
Lesson #1 in how not to evangelize a Muslim -> don’t criticize Islam. When we do, it’s over. That’s the last thing a Christian evangelist wants. That’s mission failure.
What do you want to accomplish? How about this -> the persuaded Muslim criticizes Islam. That’s how a convert is made.
You criticize Islam -> you harden a Muslim’s heart. You want a softened heart, not a hardened heart.
What do you want to accomplish? How about this -> the persuaded Muslim criticizes Islam. That’s how a convert is made.
You criticize Islam -> you harden a Muslim’s heart. You want a softened heart, not a hardened heart.
Hatun Tash did it at Speaker's Corner where the Muslim Dawah guys are. They are already angry and just there to try to spread Islam.
I have Muslim friends and have never criticized their religion. And they are not really practicing... except for holidays and no pork. So I have hopes for them to come to know Jesus Christ.
Yes. Did she cause them to change their minds? Did she successfully evangelize them? Did they decide to become Christians? No.
This is another lesson. That’s the wrong environment for evangelizing Muslims.
That’s the way. You have a real possibility of successfully evangelizing them.
I want to revisit this. The ex-Muslim Christian apologist, Shahriq Khan, touched on it yesterday.
“As a former Muslim, one thing that used to confuse me was this:
Why do some parts of the Quran sound peaceful, while other parts sound like a war manual?
The answer is history.
The Quran comes from two very different periods of Muhammad’s life: Mecca and Medina.
In Mecca, Muhammad was a minority without political power.
The revelations emphasized patience, endurance, and persuasion.
In Medina, he became a political leader, military commander, and ruler. The revelations shifted toward governance, warfare, and dealing with opponents.
Most Muslims never realize these verses are blended together because the Quran is not arranged chronologically.
That raises an important question:
If the message changes as the prophet’s power changes, is it truly an eternal revelation, or is it responding to changing circumstances?
What ultimately led me to Christ was seeing the contrast.
Jesus never gained political power.
Never raised an army.
Never conquered a city.
His kingdom wasn’t built by the sword.
It was built by a cross.
And it was His blood that was shed, not ours.”
Shahriq Khan (@RealShahriqKhan) on X
As a former Muslim, one thing that used to confuse me was this: Why do some parts of the Quran sound peaceful, while other parts sound like a war manual? The answer is history. The Quran comes from two very different periods of Muhammad's life: Mecca and Medina. In Mecca,
So, is it true that Islam was founded on war?
The ex-Muslim Christian apologist is telling us that it is not true; it is false.
It’s a terrible mistake to evangelize Muslims with something that is false. Muslim’s are right to reject it.
Everyone is right when they reject something presented to them as true when it in fact is false.
“Islam is founded on war” is a false perception.
A. Islam was founded on war.
B. Islam was founded on peace.
In light of what we have learned from the ex-Muslim Christian apologist -
Which one of these statements will attract a Muslim? B.
Which one of these statements will repel a Muslim? A.
The Christian evangelist wants to attract Muslims, not repel them.
Give them B. Islam was founded on peace. Now the Muslim is listening to you.
B. Islam was founded on peace.
In light of what we have learned from the ex-Muslim Christian apologist -
Which one of these statements will attract a Muslim? B.
Which one of these statements will repel a Muslim? A.
The Christian evangelist wants to attract Muslims, not repel them.
Give them B. Islam was founded on peace. Now the Muslim is listening to you.
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