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Holy War Fate of Non-Muslims

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Christina, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Interesting read on jihad or Holy WarA Disturbing Shi’ite Alliance?By Andrew G. BostomSeptember 15th, 2006[Published by FrontPageMagazine.com]Mr. al-Maliki was greeted warmly by Iranian President Ahmadinejad. The meeting reflected growing economic ties between Iraq’s Shi’ite-led government and the Shi’ite theocracy of neighboring Iran. Last month Baghdad finalized deals for Tehran to provide it with gasoline, kerosene and cooking fuel amid a shortage in Iraq. Immediately prior to al-Maliki’s visit, a separate Iraqi delegation discussed additional petroleum deals, including possible Iranian investment in Iraq’s fuel sector.Accompanied by mutual expressions of “brotherhood”, the two Shi’ite leaders—al-Maliki and Ahmadinejad—pledged continued cooperation. Ahmadinejad stated, “This trip will strengthen bilateral relations. Iran and Iraq, as two brotherly neighbors, will stand by each other and unwanted guests (U.S.-led coalition forces) will leave the region”. Al-Maliki characterized the talks as “very constructive” adding that Iran is “…a very important country, a good friend and brother.”I found the meeting between al-Maliki and Ahmadinejad surreal, and profoundly depressing, juxtaposed with President Bush’s speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11/01, which ended only hours earlier (9:18 PM EDT), in Washington, DC.http://www.andrewbostom.org/index.php?opti...d=134&Itemid=27
     
  2. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.I am not sure if I am allowed to add some comments or to correct the information found in this article, but I found myself obliged to do so, so forgive me if I was not suppose to reply this thread at all. (kriss;3521)
    Interesting read on jihad or Holy War
    Please note, that the term “HOLY WAR” not to be found ANYWHERE in the Arabic text of the Qur’an or the authentic Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. It is a misconception among both Muslims and Non Muslims that the word Jihad means Holy War which is absolutely wrong. The Arabic word for Holy War is called as HARBUN MUQADDASAH, this word was never used by Allah in the Qur’an nor by His prophet in the authentic Hadiths. The word used to describe WAR in the Qur’an and the authentic sayings of Prophet Muhammad pbuh is QITAL or FIGHTING. But JIHAD simply means to strive or struggle in the way of Allah in all matters, and that includes fighting if required. So I hope this clarifies the meaning of the word Jihad. Salamammuslim
     
  3. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    ammuslim. The word used to describe WAR in the Qur’an and the authentic sayings of Prophet Muhammad pbuh is QITAL or FIGHTING. But JIHAD simply means to strive or struggle in the way of Allah in all matters, and that includes fighting if required.
    Thank you for the information.So rather than it be the word for war, it in fact ther permission to fight in such wars.So rather than war it means fighter or soldier for fighting? [​IMG]
     
  4. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.(Faithful;16338)
    Thank you for the information.So rather than it be the word for war, it in fact ther permission to fight in such wars.So rather than war it means fighter or soldier for fighting? [​IMG]
    I am not sure if I understood your question/comment correctly, but I will try to elaborate on my previous input.Permission to fight was given by God Almighty only in one case, to fight those who fights you. but in case there was no choice except fighting, then we should not transgress limits, for God Almighty does not love the transgressors. This is what the Qur’an says. Plus fighting in many cases, has to take place in order to maintain peace, fighting against oppression for example is a must, so that peace can prevail, the police forces that we have in all countries, many a times fight and use their forces against the anti social elements, and by doing that, they are maintaing the peace of that country. . I was only trying to explain about the word that often used by Non Muslims i.e. “Holy War” which is nowadays associated with Islam, but as I mentioned earlier, this word do not exist in the authentic sources of Islam and so my aim was to cleal up this misconception. Salamammuslim
     
  5. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16337)
    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.I am not sure if I am allowed to add some comments or to correct the information found in this article, but I found myself obliged to do so, so forgive me if I was not suppose to reply this thread at all. Please note, that the term “HOLY WAR” not to be found ANYWHERE in the Arabic text of the Qur’an or the authentic Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. It is a misconception among both Muslims and Non Muslims that the word Jihad means Holy War which is absolutely wrong. The Arabic word for Holy War is called as HARBUN MUQADDASAH, this word was never used by Allah in the Qur’an nor by His prophet in the authentic Hadiths. The word used to describe WAR in the Qur’an and the authentic sayings of Prophet Muhammad pbuh is QITAL or FIGHTING. But JIHAD simply means to strive or struggle in the way of Allah in all matters, and that includes fighting if required. So I hope this clarifies the meaning of the word Jihad. Salamammuslim
    Can you please explain these few:Qur'an 2:216 'Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not.' Qur'an 2:217 'They question you (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelieve in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing' Qur'an 98:6 Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy. Qur'an 47:4"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks;" Qur'an 8:65 'O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand. '. Qur'an 8:67-68 'It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.' Qur'an 8:55-57'Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.' 'Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember.'
     
  6. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
    Can you please explain these few:
    I ask the Almighty Allah to help me explain. Insh a Allah. May I ask you, what translation of the Qur’an are you using?
    Qur'an 2:216 'Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not.'
    The original Arabic word mentioned in that verse is QITAL which means fighting. As I explained in my previous post, that fighting sometimes is a must in order to maintain peace, so fighting was prescribed only if the Muslims were attacked as you will see in the next verse.
    Qur'an 2:217 'They question you (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelieve in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing'
    You have not even completed the verse, the end of this verse says: “Nor will they (the unbelievers) cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein”.So fighting in the sacred months are forbidden, but if the enemies intend to fight us again and again, then we have no choice but to fight back and defend ourselves and our faith. And as you can see, God Almighty is telling the Muslims plainly, that the unbelievers will not cease fighting unless we follow their way of life, and so in return we have to fight back to stop their evil plan.
    Qur'an 98:6 Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy.
    You misquoted the verse, or you are using a very weak translation, the last sentence of your verse i.e. and thus deserve no mercy is not to be found in the Qur’an, The correct translation is “Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures”.
    Qur'an 47:4"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks;"
    When you meet them in fight, don’t get scared, smite their necks and kill them. What’s wrong with that? The Qur’an doesn’t say when you meet any unbeliever smite their neck, we are commanded only to strike those who fight us. Similar verses are mentioned in the Bible also, for example: Deuteronomy 13: 6"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" Deuteronomy 13:8-9"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." Deuteronomy 13:1"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."There must be an explanation to the above verses, whatever your explanation might be, I will accept it, unless you think that your Bible promote violence and killing for no reason.
    Qur'an 8:65 'O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand. '.
    To boast the morale in his army, he should encourage them to fight during war. Again, it is not that he is urging us to fight every Dick,Tom and Harry we may meet amongst the Non Muslims, this is only during war.
    Qur'an 8:67-68 'It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.'
    You read verse 66 to get the answer.
    Qur'an 8:55-57'Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.' 'Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember.'
    What is wrong with that? Salamammuslim.
     
  7. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    sir muslim, may i ask what is up with that karen armstrong quote? thank you
     
  8. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.(tim bennett;16441)
    sir muslim, may i ask what is up with that karen armstrong quote? thank you
    Please, no need to use any kind of formalities, just call me brother instead of sir. [​IMG]I like Karen Armstrong, although she is a Non Muslim with Christianity background, but she studied very well the history of all the monotheistic religions and understood them very well, if you read her books you will see how she proves that Islam is not a violent religion, it was not spread by any sword, and that it is all about peace. That’s why I added some of her quotes in my website about Muhammad pbuh, and the religion of Islam.Thanks for asking. Salamammuslim
     
  9. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16440)
    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.I ask the Almighty Allah to help me explain. Insh a Allah. May I ask you, what translation of the Qur’an are you using? The original Arabic word mentioned in that verse is QITAL which means fighting. As I explained in my previous post, that fighting sometimes is a must in order to maintain peace, so fighting was prescribed only if the Muslims were attacked as you will see in the next verse. You have not even completed the verse, the end of this verse says: “Nor will they (the unbelievers) cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein”.So fighting in the sacred months are forbidden, but if the enemies intend to fight us again and again, then we have no choice but to fight back and defend ourselves and our faith. And as you can see, God Almighty is telling the Muslims plainly, that the unbelievers will not cease fighting unless we follow their way of life, and so in return we have to fight back to stop their evil plan. You misquoted the verse, or you are using a very weak translation, the last sentence of your verse i.e. and thus deserve no mercy is not to be found in the Qur’an, The correct translation is “Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures”.When you meet them in fight, don’t get scared, smite their necks and kill them. What’s wrong with that? The Qur’an doesn’t say when you meet any unbeliever smite their neck, we are commanded only to strike those who fight us. Similar verses are mentioned in the Bible also, for example: Deuteronomy 13: 6"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" Deuteronomy 13:8-9"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." Deuteronomy 13:1"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."There must be an explanation to the above verses, whatever your explanation might be, I will accept it, unless you think that your Bible promote violence and killing for no reason. To boast the morale in his army, he should encourage them to fight during war. Again, it is not that he is urging us to fight every Dick,Tom and Harry we may meet amongst the Non Muslims, this is only during war. You read verse 66 to get the answer. What is wrong with that? Salamammuslim.
    So all in all you are saying that translations of Quran can be wrong? Yet some muslims find it so difficult to understand that Biblical translations can have errors and consider it changed [​IMG] Like you advices my brother Jag in the other thread about the KGV version which by the way is considered the most accurate.Well whatever way you put your translations, war is to fight unless one can dance in a war [​IMG] Strange, you see nothing wrong in killing and yet call it religion of peace. How about forgiving your enemies and let God be the judge for their actions? How come it is correct for a man to see if the other man is leading a morally correct life?
     
  10. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16346)
    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.I am not sure if I understood your question/comment correctly, but I will try to elaborate on my previous input.Permission to fight was given by God Almighty only in one case, to fight those who fights you. but in case there was no choice except fighting, then we should not transgress limits, for God Almighty does not love the transgressors. This is what the Qur’an says. Plus fighting in many cases, has to take place in order to maintain peace, fighting against oppression for example is a must, so that peace can prevail, the police forces that we have in all countries, many a times fight and use their forces against the anti social elements, and by doing that, they are maintaing the peace of that country. . I was only trying to explain about the word that often used by Non Muslims i.e. “Holy War” which is nowadays associated with Islam, but as I mentioned earlier, this word do not exist in the authentic sources of Islam and so my aim was to cleal up this misconception. Salamammuslim
    I wonder if you have ever read the Fatwa by Osama declaring Holy War. You can find the quranic references / verses in there. It's a good source of information for Islamic history and Sariah Law also.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/inte...fatwa_1996.html
     
  11. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16440)
    What is wrong with that?
    Qur'an 8:55-57'Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.' 'Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember.' And no wonder you see nothing wrong in that. My friend, can you explain the concept of free will ? Incase you haven't realized this verse is for people who might reject islam. No wonder islam is flourishing [​IMG]
     
  12. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Muhammad said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57Muhammad said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50
     
  13. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum
    So all in all you are saying that translations of Quran can be wrong? Yet some muslims find it so difficult to understand that Biblical translations can have errors and consider it changed Like you advices my brother Jag in the other thread about the KGV version which by the way is considered the most accurate.
    I only asked you which translation are you using? Because there are some translations out there which are the production of some critics who want to promote wrong information about Islam; why cant you tell me which translation are you using? Or do you just copy and paste them without going back to the exact source? Just be honest.
    Well whatever way you put your translations, war is to fight unless one can dance in a war Strange, you see nothing wrong in killing and yet call it religion of peace. How about forgiving your enemies and let God be the judge for their actions? How come it is correct for a man to see if the other man is leading a morally correct life?
    I bet with your kind personality, you might allow your daughter to get raped (God forbade) infront of your eyes because you were told to love your enemy!! Will you not even defend your daughter from such person? Will you not die for that cause if it was necessary? Jesus when he said love your enemy, he simply meant to show courage to them, to be nice to them even if they don’t like you, but if they intended to destroy you and your faith, then fight them back to make God’s words most high. Salamammuslim
     
  14. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum(Amy;16477)
    Muhammad said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57Muhammad said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50
    Which books are you quoting from? You only mentioned the volume # but you haven’t quote us the book name, is it Bukhari, Muslim or what exactly? Salamammuslim
     
  15. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.(Amy;16468)
    Qur'an 8:55-57My friend, can you explain the concept of free will ? Incase you haven't realized this verse is for people who might reject islam.
    You have not answered my questions on the other thread because your thought that I was off topic, do you think the concept of free will in Islam is our topic here on this thread?Salamammusluim
     
  16. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16523)
    Bismillah: Assalamo AlikumWhich books are you quoting from? You only mentioned the volume # but you haven’t quote us the book name, is it Bukhari, Muslim or what exactly? Salamammuslim
    So you have many books? That's news [​IMG]Aren't you suppose to issue Fatwa if they may exsist ?
     
  17. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16524)
    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.You have not answered my questions on the other thread because your thought that I was off topic, do you think the concept of free will in Islam is our topic here on this thread?Salamammusluim
    Well, free will is very much related to the topic of terrorism.
     
  18. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16522)
    I bet with your kind personality, you might allow your daughter to get raped (God forbade) infront of your eyes because you were told to love your enemy!!
    Administration, to kindly take action against this personal remark !
     
  19. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16522)
    Bismillah: Assalamo AlikumI only asked you which translation are you using? Because there are some translations out there which are the production of some critics who want to promote wrong information about Islam; why cant you tell me which translation are you using? Or do you just copy and paste them without going back to the exact source? Just be honest.
    I am providing quranic references anyone can choose to read any translations.
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    AmmuslimWe are discussing things of very passionte feelings here on both sides I realize you are at a disatvantage on a Christian site However I will ask you that you keep your arguments directed to the post and attempt not to attack the character of the person posteing as part of your defence. You must know by your choice to come here that we do not accept Islam as our religion.This is not against you or any particular person but you cant be surprised when someone points out what they see as differences between what God says in our book and Mohammand says in yours.Do you not do the same ? You are allowed to defend yourself BUT NOT BY PERSONAL ATTACKS Staff
     
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