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Holy War Fate of Non-Muslims

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Christina, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (ammuslim;16724)
    Yes, its your right to defend your faith if you were attacked, as it is also the Muslims rights to do the same thing. But the main purpose of this forum is not about debates, comparison or anything of that kind. It is about questions to be asked by Non Christians, so I see the 2 threads of Kriss and Amy irrelevant to that main purpose.
    Who are you to decide what gose on this forum? Kriss is in the forum management herself. You should be glad that we are discussing these issues in the non-christian section giving you a fair chance to defend WITHOUT being offending.Ricky has been provided a fair chance to provide links on this christian forum in his defence. The links were mockery of trinity, Jesus and calling bible pornographic. What other levels of Tolerance you expect? This is a christian forum, dose that ring a bell?Don't be a cry baby now !
     
  2. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    Who are you to decide what gose on this forum? Kriss is in the forum management herself. You should be glad that we are discussing these issues in the non-christian section giving you a fair chance to defend WITHOUT being offending.Ricky has been provided a fair chance to provide links on this christian forum in his defence. The links were mockery of trinity, Jesus and calling bible pornographic. What other levels of Tolerance you expect?
    Amy, i really don't know what you up to considering me in this. Because you are the one who provoke me to do the think that you have done first regarding on my faith.And yes, i do admitted my wrong because i got provoke because of you. Please me, i really don't want to do some judging before asking first. That was what i'm trying to do here. Event actually i don't want to serving you because of your provocation on my faith, but it's heart a lot, because you judging it. Perhaps you are trauma with other moslem, but please don't considered they are all the same. The same think was happen to personal in Christian as well. Because i understand that every human kind has a different though and understanding on theire religion, i wouldn't considered all christian are the same. Event with you to kriss, Jordan, Wakka, and every member in here i treated different to each of them event they are all christian. So amy, i do hope you got my point by saying this.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  3. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Ricky W;16751)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimAmy, i really don't know what you up to considering me in this. Because you are the one who provoke me to do the think that you have done first regarding on my faith.And yes, i do admitted my wrong because i got provoke because of you. Please me, i really don't want to do some judging before asking first. That was what i'm trying to do here. Event actually i don't want to serving you because of your provocation on my faith, but it's heart a lot, because you judging it. Perhaps you are trauma with other moslem, but please don't considered they are all the same. The same think was happen to personal in Christian as well. Because i understand that every human kind has a different though and understanding on theire religion, i wouldn't considered all christian are the same. Event with you to kriss, Jordan, Wakka, and every member in here i treated different to each of them event they are all christian. So amy, i do hope you got my point by saying this.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
    Ricky, you did as you pleased as a consequence of you being ''provoked'' so to say. What I mean is, that when you provided such links that too on a christian forum, no one objected to it for we in our hearts know the truth. So at least you muslims should not claim that while you were ''provoked'' you could not defend yourself. I am in no trauma with muslims, I pity them for it's not their fault that they grew up with a false religion.That's all !
     
  4. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohim(Amy)
    Ricky, you did as you pleased as a consequence of you being ''provoked'' so to say. What I mean is, that when you provided such links that too on a christian forum, no one objected to it for we in our hearts know the truth. So at least you muslims should not claim that while you were ''provoked'' you could not defend yourself. I am in no trauma with muslims, I pity them for it's not their fault that they grew up with a false religion.That's all !
    Well you did it again. I don't how to say regarding on your provocation statement. Well amy, Only patience in my heart and head regarding on your false understanding againts our faith, but that is your right to do so.And may God who created the Universe will always guiding you and all of us for your truly seeker of truth.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  5. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Were Muhammad's Wars in Self Defense? Answer By Ali Sina ​
    Question: Dear AliI was debating with one of my religious relatives and when I showed her this verse (9:5) she accused us (you and I) of misinterpretation. According to her we are reading this verse in the wrong context. Her interpretation of this verse is that Muslims are asked to fight back in self defense only and we should read verses 9:04 - 9:06 in order to get the correct meaning. She looks at it from Yusuf Ali's tafsir which states fight only if the pagans make war against you.Regards Gus
    ***​
    Dear Gus, Sura 9 consists of two main discourses: The first discourse (vv. 1-37), is called Bara’at. This discourse basically is the edict of intolerance that Muhammad issued one year after his victory in Mecca and only a few months before his death. The other main discourse of this Sura is called Taubah or repentance and has to do with the conditions that he imposed for accepting the repentance of those who did not go to war with him to Tabuk. Your question is about the first discourse which is actually, chronologically speaking, the last verses of the Quran. Quran must be read in its context i.e. the context in which it was written (Sha’ne Nozool). You have to know the history behind every verse and Surah to understand what it says. Bara’at means deliverance. In the year seven of Hijra Muhammad had signed a peace treaty with the Meccans, a few miles away from that town, in a place called Hudaibiyah. The treaty stated that for 10 years Muslims would leave the Quraish and their caravans unscathed and would not harass them by waylaying their caravans and plundering their properties. In exchange the Quraish would allow the Muslims to perform Hajj starting from the subsequent year. After signing that accord, Muhammad concentrated on the North and raided the Northern populations of Arabia , starting with Khaibar, which was a prosperous Jewish town and then subdued many other smaller populations, casting terror in the hearts of the majority of the Arabs. Only two years after the treaty of Hudaibiyah he felt strong enough to attack Mecca and was able to gather 10,000 men to accompany him in the expedition. (At Hudaibiyah he had only 1500 men). Not all those who accompanied him were Muslims. But he was an emerging tyrant and some of the tribes feared that refusing his demand would anger him and they too could become his subsequent victims. In other words they tried to stay out of his harm by appeasing him. Among them were the two big tribes of Sulaim and Tamim. To sweeten the deal Muhammad offered them a share of the booty. Carrot and stick are the preferred tools of narcissists. But Muhammad had signed a treaty with the Meccans. How could he get around it? Not that the treaty itself was any deterrent, what Muhammad needed was an excuse to justify his treachery. The solution to all Muhammad’s problems was Allah and in this case also it was Allah who gave him deliverance. Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Quran into English writes:"Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first "the fighting" was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory " [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Ali read the Bara'at to the crowd of the pilgrims in Mecca one year after the conquest of that city. That year was the last year that the Pagans were allowed to come close to Mecca and its mosque. In this edict Muhammad announced, "the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque" (9.28) In this discourse Muhammad declared that all the treaties that he had previously signed with the Pagans are null and that the Pagans had four months of grace to submit to him and after that they would be hunted and as the verse 2 says; “covered with shame”. The verse 3 clearly states that after the lapse of those four months, Muhammad would unilaterally dissolve his treaties and obligations with the Pagans "and will inflict grievous penalty on those who reject his Faith." The pretext to declare null his treaty with the Meccans was soon found. In the vicinity of Mecca there were two tribes with a long standing feud between them. One was Bani Bakr who had Meccans for allies and the other was Bani Khoza’a. They sought the protection of Muhammad when he was stationed in Hudaibiyah. It happened that several men of the Bani Bakr, in their traditional custom of hostility, effected a petty raid on their enemies, the Bani Khoza’a, and killed a few of them. The victims took their complaints to Muhammad to punish the aggressors. Entreaty was hardly necessary. The opportunity that Muhammad had been waiting for had finally arrived. He immediately gave his word to avenge their blood: "If I assist you not with the same aid as if the cause were mine own, then let Allah never assist me again!" But it was the invasion of Mecca that Muhammad was really coveting. Instead of Bani Bakr, Muhammad started making preparation to attack Mecca . This was a continuing war between two unrelated tribes. The treaty of Hudaibiyah was signed between Muhammad and the Quraish. In no logical terms one can find an excuse for Muhammad to annul the treaty and attack Mecca . To justify this war he accused the Meccans of furnishing weapons to Bani Bakr. The history is written by the Muslims and we have no way to verify their claims against their enemies, but even if this accusation was true, still the Meccans cannot be blamed for selling arms to their allies. One can find no justification for Muhammad for invading Mecca . The verse 4 of this Sura refers to this episode where Muhammad spells out his pretext. In this verse Muhammad shifts the blame on his victims and makes his Allah say that the treaties are “not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you.” In other words the reason this treaty is dissolved, according to Muhammad was because the Meccans aided one against him. Of course this is a lie. The Meccans did not help Bani Bakr against Muhammad. This verse is basically an excuse, a face saver. Here Muhammad implies that the reason for the attack is because the Meccans aided the Bani Bakr. To see the absurdity of this excuse imagine that America and Russia sign a peace treaty but Russia supplies India some arms which the Indians use against Pakistan . Would America be justified to declare war on Russia accusing the Russians of the breach of their peace accord because America and Pakistan are allies? This makes no sense at all and it is clear that Muhammad was looking for an excuse to renege his treaty. From these episodes we can see the cunning nature of Muhammad. It was always he who broke his words and committed all sorts of crimes and then he blamed his victims. Now you can see why Muslims behave the way they do. Why they do so much evil and at the same time they justify their crimes and blame their victims. They get this trait from their prophet. In fact the treaty had another clause that Muhammad had already broken. This clause obliged Muhammad to return the youth of the Quraish who would elope their families and join his marauding gang and obligated him also to let go those converts who wanted to return to their families without coercing them to stay or threatening to kill them as he had ordered in the verse 4: 89 where it says: “if they turn back then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Then the verse 5 says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." So the Pagans were given 4 months to submit to Muhammad, pay tithes الزَّكَاةَ and send their men to take part in his subsequent Jihads. If they failed to comply they had to prepare themselves to suffer the consequences that were described in verse 5. Note that زَّكَاةَ zakat is translated as "regular charity" but the believers could not give to their charity of choice. They had to give it to Muhammad and Muhammad used that "charity" fund to subsidize his military adventures. Even today the "charities" that Muslims pay to the mosques go to finance Islamic Terrorism. Charity can't be obligatory, if it is obligatory it is a tax and not charity. So in reality zakat is not charity but a tax that Muslims have to pay to sustain the constant warfare and the expansion of the Islamic empire. In reality this Zakat was the real objective and faith in Allah was only the pretext. Wasn't he who said "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) when he still was weak, many years earlier in Mecca ? How can one reconcile the verse 2:256 with 9:5? The verse 6, says that “If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.” Here he leaves a door open for the Pagans to submit when they are attacked and hence save their lives. The truth is that Muslims were never attacked by anyone. They were always the aggressors. In fact Muhammad’s wars are called Qazwah and that means: raid, sudden attack, ambush. Muhammad was not in the habit of declaring wars. This would have given his victims time to prepare and would have reduced his chances of victory. He always attacked his victims with no warning and took them by surprise, when people had gone to the fields after their daily business, the gates of their fortresses were open and they were unarmed. The following hadith makes this point very clear: Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.” Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4292: The problem is that Muslims do not know the history of Islam. They are fed with lies and they make no effort to find out the truth. Your relative is not the only misinformed Muslim. Unfortunately the majority of Muslims live cocooned in lies. Those who come to know the truth are of two categories. A group of them does not agree with the evil that they find in Islam and Muhammad and leave this cult with disgust. The other group is delighted to find out that Muhammad was an evil monster like them and become terrorists, massacring and beheading innocent people while shouting to their demonic god calling him "great". We must tell the Muslims the truth so they can make their minds and decide which side they want to stand. Let those who are on the side of good leave Islam and join the rest of humanity and those who love evil remain Muslims. A great war is in the making. The media in Islamic countries is constantly inciting the Muslims to hatred of the non-Muslims, especially the Americans and Jews. This hatred will eventually explode and disaster will befall mankind and of course Muslims will be the ones who will suffer the most. This is the war between good and evil. Let the Muslims decide which side they want to stand. If Muslims come to their senses in time and stop this insanity, if they see that Muhammad was not a prophet but an evil psychopath who lied for his own gain and leave this cult of hate and terror, we may still be able to save the world from this war. But unfortunately they are not listening. They are blinded by hate and engulfed in a sea of ignorance. Time is running out and the future looms bleak. Sura Bara'at 009.001A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-009.002Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.009.003And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. 009.004(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.009.005But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.009.006If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge
     
  6. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimDon't you know that Ali sina was a lier ?Are you agree with a lier amy ?We will show you this http://www.answering-christianity.com/yahy...nt_response.htmIf you agree with a lier, that mean you are agree with a satan. Then i don't know what to say about your faith anymore.And regarding on this threads i hope some of the lying that has been shown from Ali Sina by you can be answered by this link :http://islamic-answers.com/did_prophet_muh...to_be_killed___http://www.answering-christianity.com/bass...l_innocents.htmhttp://www.answering-christianity.com/kari...f_civilians.htmAnd also this link, i considered can answer what Ali Sina trying todo.http://www.islamic-study.org/Quranic%20Ver...interpreted.htmBest regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.Wallahu a'lam.
     
  7. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Ricky W;16855)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimDon't you know that Ali sina was a lier ?Are you agree with a lier amy ?We will show you this http://www.answering-christianity.com/yahy...nt_response.htmIf you agree with a lier, that mean you are agree with a satan. Then i don't know what to say about your faith anymore.And regarding on this threads i hope some of the lying that has been shown from Ali Sina by you can be answered by this link :http://islamic-answers.com/did_prophet_muh...to_be_killed___http://www.answering-christianity.com/bass...l_innocents.htmhttp://www.answering-christianity.com/kari...f_civilians.htmAnd also this link, i considered can answer what Ali Sina trying todo.http://www.islamic-study.org/Quranic%20Ver...interpreted.htmBest regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.Wallahu a'lam.
    Anyone who converts from islam has to be a liar and satan, in fact should be dead. I am not surprised from your comments about Ali Sina. You can call me a liar, satan, faithless and whatever else YOU choose. It dose not make any difference in my life what you believe [​IMG]
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Amy)
    Anyone who converts from islam has to be a liar and satan, in fact should be dead. I am not surprised from your comments about Ali Sina.You can call me a liar, satan, faithless and whatever else YOU choose. It dose not make any difference in my life what you believe
    I happen to agree with you sister Amy. [​IMG]Mattthew 12:25-28 - And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  9. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (thesuperjag;16862)
    I happen to agree with you sister Amy. [​IMG]Mattthew 12:25-28 - And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
    Praise God for that :shepard:
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Amy)
    (thesuperjag)
    I happen to agree with you sister Amy.Mattthew 12:25-28 - And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
    Praise God for that :shepard:Amen! and God bless you. :study: HalleluYah!
     
  11. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    Anyone who converts from islam has to be a liar and satan, in fact should be dead. I am not surprised from your comments about Ali Sina. You can call me a liar, satan, faithless and whatever else YOU choose.
    Do I talking about converting from Islam to others amy like you mention above amy ? If you said you want to seek a truth then you should using honest way todo those thing.And what i giving to you is, how we expose his liar from his unresponsible statement and twisted with his own desire, and indeed we proving to you about it. If you can not see the clearly lying that he gave to you that we already clarify about it that is your own problem with your understanding on the meaning of truth. Then how can you see the truth if you are supporting a lying statement ?And i'm not attend to call you a liar, faithless and whatever you call ups there, i just want to remind you from what i learn from what Jesus though with his word. And if you are don't like to be given advise, so be it. That's not my business anymore, i just want to remind you that's it.
    It dose not make any difference in my life what you believe [​IMG]
    Well who wants to change your life anyway, me ? Get a real. You are responsible for your own doing, my job as human being, just give some remind and advise. And if that doesn't pleasent to you or doesn't meaning to you, that is your own problem, not mine [​IMG].I hope you got my point.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam
     
  12. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    In the Muslim faith. You get to Heaven by doing good deeds (keeping the 5 pillars). But, do you also follow Mosses' 10 commandments?
     
  13. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Wakka;16912)
    In the Muslim faith. You get to Heaven by doing good deeds (keeping the 5 pillars). But, do you also follow Mosses' 10 commandments?
    Could you mentioned the 10 commandments of Moses is ?Best regards, Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  14. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Exodus 20:3-17 From God to Moses. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13Thou shalt not kill. 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15Thou shalt not steal. 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
     
  15. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.(Wakka;16918)
    Exodus 20:3-17 From God to Moses. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13Thou shalt not kill. 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15Thou shalt not steal. 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
    Yes we do believe in the 10 commandments, if you want me to bring the references from the Qur'an and the authentic Hadith of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, please let me know.Salamammuslim
     
  16. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Wakka)
    Exodus 20:3-17 From God to Moses. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13Thou shalt not kill. 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15Thou shalt not steal. 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
    Perhaps this link could be the answer of your question about this matter wakka [​IMG][url="http://www.submission.org/quran/ten.html]http://www.submission.org/quran/ten.html[/url]Best regardsRicky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  17. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Ricky W;16907)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimDo I talking about converting from Islam to others amy like you mention above amy ? If you said you want to seek a truth then you should using honest way todo those thing.And what i giving to you is, how we expose his liar from his unresponsible statement and twisted with his own desire, and indeed we proving to you about it. If you can not see the clearly lying that he gave to you that we already clarify about it that is your own problem with your understanding on the meaning of truth. Then how can you see the truth if you are supporting a lying statement ?And i'm not attend to call you a liar, faithless and whatever you call ups there, i just want to remind you from what i learn from what Jesus though with his word. And if you are don't like to be given advise, so be it. That's not my business anymore, i just want to remind you that's it.Well who wants to change your life anyway, me ? Get a real. You are responsible for your own doing, my job as human being, just give some remind and advise. And if that doesn't pleasent to you or doesn't meaning to you, that is your own problem, not mine [​IMG].I hope you got my point.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam
    Ricky, i seriously suggest that you take an english language course before you get into a discussion. I say this not to hurt you but for convenience.I am not saying that you are trying to convert anyone. I was talking about the conversion of Ali Sina whom you are judging.What do you know about truth??? How can you say Ali twisted the words for his OWN DESIRE? Do you know him personally? Do you know me personally? Who are you to judge? Call everything a lie so easily? For what I know for sure, it's your religion that is a pack of lies for it dose not match Torah, Zabur, injil... A muslim must believe in All Holy books. These Holy books are from God even as per your belief. It is written in these Holy books that the word of God can not be changed and anyone who adds or amends it is a false prophet / religion. Then how come quran after saying that you must believe twists and changes what's written in these Holy books? What can be changed, something that came first or something that is an imitation of the original? Can you see the truth? What do you truly believe in? Is that these Holy books are changed? Who changed it then... Muhammed? Who is Muhammed to change God's word? You say that I am faithless because I think Ali Sina is right and yet YOU choose to blindly follow a false prophet. Who are you talking sense to? Have you ever read Torah? Have you ever read Quran? Have you ever compared both? Similarities is just a basis of false religion. God's word are not similar, they are exact.I DON'T NEED YOUR REMINDERS / ADVICES AND I DON'T NEED TO LEARN ABOUT JESUS FROM YOU !!!YES, IT IS MY PROBLEM THAT I DON'T BELIEVE IN SATAN AND HIS VERSES, so go mind your religion !
     
  18. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Wakka;16912)
    In the Muslim faith. You get to Heaven by doing good deeds (keeping the 5 pillars). But, do you also follow Mosses' 10 commandments?
    Ofcourse they do Wakka, Christianity + Jewism are tossed with seasoning of muhamadism. You will find many similarities.Remember, Satan was originally one of the angels of God. He knows bible inside out and uses it against you. When he tried to tempt Jesus, he quoted verses from the bible.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Amy)
    (Wakka)
    In the Muslim faith. You get to Heaven by doing good deeds (keeping the 5 pillars). But, do you also follow Mosses' 10 commandments?
    Ofcourse they do Wakka, Christianity + Jewism are tossed with seasoning of muhamadism. You will find many similarities.Remember, Satan was originally one of the angels of God. He knows bible inside out and uses it against you. When he tried to tempt Jesus, he quoted verses from the bible.:amen: and :blessyou:Ezekiel 28:3-5 - Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:......Ezekiel 28:12-17 - Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  20. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    The Lord in my life reminds me he once was at the hands of men for us.Mistreated and abused, imprisoned, falsely accused and wrongfully judged finally facing death. Not once did he respond with anything but love.I believe like the conduct of the 9/11 offenders,any conduct that puts love second causes us to walk off the sure and difficult path.Would you all please remember that the Sword we are given is of the Spirit and is not of the world. Try to remember that we too have a choice.The 9/11 men gave their lives for a lie no love for God or man. And they I am sure are not at the Bosom of Abraham. If you have the light then live in it and listen to the Holy Spirit. Christ has already overcome the world. Live in the sure knowledge and not the feelings of flesh.Love Faithful. xx:)
     
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