Homeland Security Study / Mosques

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

goob

New Member
Jul 20, 2008
10
0
0
53
Homeland Security: An alarming new study shows homegrown terrorists are not just radicalized in prisons or chat rooms but in mainstream U.S. mosques. Now if someone would just tell the White House.

A survey of 100 randomly selected mosques in America finds 81% of them feature Islamic literature — not including the Quran and Sunnah — that advocates violence. And 85% of the imams running the mosques actively recommend these tracts.

Only 19% of the mosques do not disseminate Islamic materials sanctioning jihadi violence, according to the peer-reviewed data collected by two scholars sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy. If accurate, this turns everything we've been told by Washington on its head.

Despite pleasant platitudes to the contrary, the majority of mosques are not preaching interfaith tolerance and assimilation. While some do, they are the exception — the fringe. It's the mainstream mosques that are actually radical. Fully four of every five, in fact, may be potential hotbeds for terrorist activity.

And the overwhelming majority adhere, at least in their worship rituals, to Shariah law — the strict Islamic legal code practiced in Saudi Arabia. The survey found, for example, that most American Muslim women are forced to pray separately from men and cover themselves with scarves and veils.

We're not talking about mosques in Saudi Arabia or Iran. Or even Britain. These are Islamic centers operating right here inside America — more than likely in your neighborhood. And new ones are popping up every day.

A popular tract distributed in U.S. mosques is "Milestones" by Sayyid Qutb, the man who inspired Osama bin Laden. If anyone restricts others from accepting Islam, Qutb exhorts Muslims, "then it is the duty of Islam to fight him until either he is killed or until he declares his submission."

What's stunning is that this tract is categorized by the authors — whose study is published in the latest issue of "The Middle East Quarterly" — among the featured Islamic literature advocating "moderate" violence. And that grouping is in the minority. More than half the mosque tracts surveyed exhort Muslims to commit "severe" acts of violence.

This is the first empirical evidence answering the question vexing experts: What is radicalizing the growing crop of homegrown Muslim terrorists in America? The answer may be Muslim places of worship.

Will the administration pay attention? Don't bet on it. It's too busy doing outreach with these very same mosques. The State Department coordinates diplomatic training programs with Dar al-Hijrah Islamic Center just outside the capital, even though the mosque has been the subject of several FBI terror probes including the 9/11 case.

Meantime, White House national security advisers are conducting formal outreach with another Washington-area mosque, ADAMS Center, even though its imam also heads an organization named an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest terror-finance case in U.S. history. And even though his mosque has been cited for distributing violent Saudi propaganda.

Also, the Justice Department recently stepped in to defend the construction of a mega-mosque in Tennessee, though the top mosque officials include a convicted felon and a Hamas supporter who had to be suspended by the mosque after local press exposed his radical ties.

Despite overwhelming evidence that many mosques operate as hubs for terrorism, none has been shut down. And more are being built without any investigation into their sources of funding or leadership.

The seminal mosque study proves that al-Qaida doesn't need the Internet or prisons to radicalize Muslims. It's getting plenty of help from our own mosques, which hold services every Friday often to overflow crowds, including ones not far from the Pentagon and just across the Potomac from the White House and Capitol.

Instead of holding more hearings on prison radicalization, House Homeland Security Committee chief Pete King would be well-advised to investigate mosque radicalization, political correctness be damned.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
realhomelandsecuritydj6.jpg
 

[email protected]

Choir Loft
Apr 2, 2009
1,635
127
63
West Central Florida
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Homeland Security: An alarming new study shows homegrown terrorists are not just radicalized in prisons or chat rooms but in mainstream U.S. mosques. Now if someone would just tell the White House.

A survey of 100 randomly selected mosques in America finds 81% of them feature Islamic literature — not including the Quran and Sunnah — that advocates violence. And 85% of the imams running the mosques actively recommend these tracts.

Only 19% of the mosques do not disseminate Islamic materials sanctioning jihadi violence, according to the peer-reviewed data collected by two scholars sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy. If accurate, this turns everything we've been told by Washington on its head.

Despite pleasant platitudes to the contrary, the majority of mosques are not preaching interfaith tolerance and assimilation. While some do, they are the exception — the fringe. It's the mainstream mosques that are actually radical. Fully four of every five, in fact, may be potential hotbeds for terrorist activity.

The root of Islam is the rule of mankind by persuasion if possible and murder if necessary.

Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows that followers of the prophet are REQUIRED to kill the infidel whenever possible. Hadith literature as well as modern speeches and Islamic publishing verify that this command is taken seriously by every Muslim.

Non-Muslims, and especially the culturally accepting American people, are ignorant of the danger even in the shadow of 9/11. Most Americans seem to have forgotten what happened that day. Most Americans seem to be actively trying to find another reason for Muslim actions other than their basic need to murder their way into global domination.

Never trust a Muslim.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The root of Islam is the rule of mankind by persuasion if possible and murder if necessary.

Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows that followers of the prophet are REQUIRED to kill the infidel whenever possible. Hadith literature as well as modern speeches and Islamic publishing verify that this command is taken seriously by every Muslim.

Non-Muslims, and especially the culturally accepting American people, are ignorant of the danger even in the shadow of 9/11. Most Americans seem to have forgotten what happened that day. Most Americans seem to be actively trying to find another reason for Muslim actions other than their basic need to murder their way into global domination.

Never trust a Muslim.

ugh

What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
ugh

What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule.

Just what were Christians doing 500 years ago? We'd like to know, since this is a Christian Forum.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just what were Christians doing 500 years ago? We'd like to know, since this is a Christian Forum.

Well, Protestants and Catholics were about to start slaughtering each other; just finished Crusading in the Holy Land for the past 400 years; still embroiled in the Inquisition and continuing the practice of forced conversions. I could go on.
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
ugh

What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule.


-- I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take this comment as tongue-in-cheek.

Because, if it isn't, you have embarassed yourself.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
-- I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take this comment as tongue-in-cheek.

Because, if it isn't, you have embarassed yourself.

I see you have chosen to provide your typical ad hominem response; completely denying the fact that Christians were just as murderous as Muslims 500 years ago.


What a waste.....
 

tim_from_pa

New Member
Jul 11, 2007
1,656
12
0
65
Homeland Security: An alarming new study shows homegrown terrorists are not just radicalized in prisons or chat rooms but in mainstream U.S. mosques. Now if someone would just tell the White House.

I would not be surprised. But the Whitehouse, with the likes of this administration and Napolitano and all, is too busy sending informers to churches, schools and anything else American while their TSA agents are groping little girls and removing diapers from 90-something grannies. So, do you think they have time for Mosques yet? Cut them a break! :lol: :rolleyes:
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
Well, Protestants and Catholics were about to start slaughtering each other; just finished Crusading in the Holy Land for the past 400 years; still embroiled in the Inquisition and continuing the practice of forced conversions. I could go on.

I don't think you realize what you're saying, and have been listening to the wrong parties.

The Crusades to the Holy Land began because of Christians being persecuted there, as they had no protection or rights. That's what started it.

Catholic persecution upon Protestants like Martin Luther happened because 'corruptors' within the Roman Church. My French ancestors had to leave France because of persecution by Catholic corruptors within the Church at Rome, some of them killed for parting from the Catholic corruptors. Note I keep saying 'corruptors' and NOT all believers in the Roman Church. Those corruptors could NEVER represent True Christianity, nor the true believers within the Church at Rome. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't make them one. One's works in Christ Jesus by Faith reveals whether one is or not.

I've been to Spain, even to El Escorial north of Madrid where historians say the Spanish Inquisition began. Not everyone that was executed were innocents, but were indeed guilty of practicing the black arts. I don't agree with their being executed, but that was part of their Bible interpretation in those times. A jail sentence would have been fine IMO. In Islamic nations, even today being caught practicing the black arts there can wind up in beheading. Today, Christian society allows those who practice the black arts to go unpunished, because of Christ's grace. Yet the day when our Lord Jesus will reckon with those is soon coming. And He is not coming back this next time to be slain like a lamb, but to reign as The KING, even with a rod of iron.

If you'll think about it, there is no such thing as forced conversion to Christianity. It's because to become a True Christian, one must accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Saviour, not relying upon an earthly organization or system of men. That was to be learned from our Lord Jesus by His example at His first coming when He rebuked the corrupt religious system of the scribes and Pharisees over His people. Nowhere did Christ Jesus preach forced belief, but by choice only.

In other words, corrupt religious organizations, systems of men, and governments that man creates is one thing, but what Christ's Church is about is another thing entirely. Those who hate Christ always try to slander Christianity as a whole theme, instead of concentrating on the corruptors who only claim to represent Christianity. The Christian martyrs executed by corrupters in the Christian Church in later centuries reveal the same problems Christ's disciples had with the Jews' religion at His first coming.

The last days are going to be the same times like what Christ's early disciples had to suffer, and later Catholic saints suffered. There will be Church organizations and religious systems of men who will persecute their own Christian brethren for refusing to bow to the coming false messiah.

 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States


I don't think you realize what you're saying, and have been listening to the wrong parties.

The Crusades to the Holy Land began because of Christians being persecuted there, as they had no protection or rights. That's what started it.

Catholic persecution upon Protestants like Martin Luther happened because 'corruptors' within the Roman Church. My French ancestors had to leave France because of persecution by Catholic corruptors within the Church at Rome, some of them killed for parting from the Catholic corruptors. Note I keep saying 'corruptors' and NOT all believers in the Roman Church. Those corruptors could NEVER represent True Christianity, nor the true believers within the Church at Rome. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't make them one. One's works in Christ Jesus by Faith reveals whether one is or not.

I've been to Spain, even to El Escorial north of Madrid where historians say the Spanish Inquisition began. Not everyone that was executed were innocents, but were indeed guilty of practicing the black arts. I don't agree with their being executed, but that was part of their Bible interpretation in those times. A jail sentence would have been fine IMO. In Islamic nations, even today being caught practicing the black arts there can wind up in beheading. Today, Christian society allows those who practice the black arts to go unpunished, because of Christ's grace. Yet the day when our Lord Jesus will reckon with those is soon coming. And He is not coming back this next time to be slain like a lamb, but to reign as The KING, even with a rod of iron.

If you'll think about it, there is no such thing as forced conversion to Christianity. It's because to become a True Christian, one must accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Saviour, not relying upon an earthly organization or system of men. That was to be learned from our Lord Jesus by His example at His first coming when He rebuked the corrupt religious system of the scribes and Pharisees over His people. Nowhere did Christ Jesus preach forced belief, but by choice only.

In other words, corrupt religious organizations, systems of men, and governments that man creates is one thing, but what Christ's Church is about is another thing entirely. Those who hate Christ always try to slander Christianity as a whole theme, instead of concentrating on the corruptors who only claim to represent Christianity. The Christian martyrs executed by corrupters in the Christian Church in later centuries reveal the same problems Christ's disciples had with the Jews' religion at His first coming.

The last days are going to be the same times like what Christ's early disciples had to suffer, and later Catholic saints suffered. There will be Church organizations and religious systems of men who will persecute their own Christian brethren for refusing to bow to the coming false messiah.


I encourage you to brush up on your history of the Middle Ages. The one thing I can agree with you on is the killing of the Huguenots in France was wrong and encouraged by the Catholic Church. As far as the Crusades and the Inquisition - we disagree soundly. It seems as if you are defending the indefensible and I am not sure why it is so difficult for you to see the skeletons in your own church history?
 

kiwimac

Member
Dec 19, 2009
117
13
18
63
Deepest, Darkest NZ
www.westcotthort.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
The root of Islam is the rule of mankind by persuasion if possible and murder if necessary.

Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows that followers of the prophet are REQUIRED to kill the infidel whenever possible. Hadith literature as well as modern speeches and Islamic publishing verify that this command is taken seriously by every Muslim.

Non-Muslims, and especially the culturally accepting American people, are ignorant of the danger even in the shadow of 9/11. Most Americans seem to have forgotten what happened that day. Most Americans seem to be actively trying to find another reason for Muslim actions other than their basic need to murder their way into global domination.

Never trust a Muslim.

What a load of Rot. I have read the Qur'an, studied the Hadiths, spent time learning about Islam and I can tell you that you are worng!
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
I see you have chosen to provide your typical ad hominem response; completely denying the fact that Christians were just as murderous as Muslims 500 years ago.

What a waste.....


"What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule." - Aspen

This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ is the comment you made and I was commenting on. I included it in my post so there would be no confusion.
You of course knew this but are pretending otherwise.

I apologize. I mistakenly gave you the benefit of the doubt that this was tongue-in-cheek.
I see now that you ARE that clueless of simple historic facts.


Allow me to give you some much needed education:

During the Crusades BOTH the Christians and the Muslims committed violent, unprovoked atrocities - on each other and on the innocent civilian populace.

This is of course omitting the fact that years and years BEFORE the Crusades, Islam spread across North Africa, South-Eastern Europe and even west to Portugul and Spain at the point of a sword, and in many countries (though not all) it was "convert or be killed."

As you pointed out, Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity.

That shows that Islam accepted the practice of violence much earlier in its incarnation that Christianity did in theirs.

And THAT blows you ridiculous "they are on the right schedule" timetable right out of the water.


So, to sum up, Islam was much younger than Christianity was when it incorporated the mantel of violence into their faith.



Oh, and just to nuke your next attempt to deflect:

Catholics committed several atrocities during the Inquisition and in many countries membership in a specific Christian denomination was mandatory.

But during that same time, Muslims were living under laws that dictated the cutting off of hands for theft, stoning of women to death for even perceived infidelity (including just being in the company of a man not her husband), beheading for a wide variety of offenses, including converting to a different faith, etc. etc. etc.

That means that 500 years ago the rolling death toll was MUCH HIGHER among Muslims than Christians.


Thus Endeth The Lesson...



.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule." - Aspen

This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ is the comment you made and I was commenting on. I included it in my post so there would be no confusion.
You of course knew this but are pretending otherwise.

I apologize. I mistakenly gave you the benefit of the doubt that this was tongue-in-cheek.
I see now that you ARE that clueless of simple historic facts.


Allow me to give you some much needed education:

During the Crusades BOTH the Christians and the Muslims committed violent, unprovoked atrocities - on each other and on the innocent civilian populace.

This is of course omitting the fact that years and years BEFORE the Crusades, Islam spread across North Africa, South-Eastern Europe and even west to Portugul and Spain at the point of a sword, and in many countries (though not all) it was "convert or be killed."

As you pointed out, Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity.

That shows that Islam accepted the practice of violence much earlier in its incarnation that Christianity did in theirs.

And THAT blows you ridiculous "they are on the right schedule" timetable right out of the water.


So, to sum up, Islam was much younger than Christianity was when it incorporated the mantel of violence into their faith.



Oh, and just to nuke your next attempt to deflect:

Catholics committed several atrocities during the Inquisition and in many countries membership in a specific Christian denomination was mandatory.

But during that same time, Muslims were living under laws that dictated the cutting off of hands for theft, stoning of women to death for even perceived infidelity (including just being in the company of a man not her husband), beheading for a wide variety of offenses, including converting to a different faith, etc. etc. etc.

That means that 500 years ago the rolling death toll was MUCH HIGHER among Muslims than Christians.


Thus Endeth The Lesson...



.

Oh brother.....

Right.....okay, so Islam was legal immediately and Christianity had to wait 300 years. As soon as Constantine made Christianity the state religion, it was enforced. Also, all converted leaders forced their people to take on their new religion. Muslim states have always been more tolerant of Christians and until recently, Jews than Christian states - Christians and Jews were considered 'people of the book'.
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
Oh brother.....

Right.....okay, so Islam was legal immediately and Christianity had to wait 300 years. As soon as Constantine made Christianity the state religion, it was enforced. Also, all converted leaders forced their people to take on their new religion. Muslim states have always been more tolerant of Christians and until recently, Jews than Christian states - Christians and Jews were considered 'people of the book'.


-- What color is the sky in your world.

"Muslim states have always been more tolerant of Christians" - Aspen

- And when exactly was that?
Today it is illegal and punishable with imprisonment to bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia (even a personal New Testament),
Christian churches in Egypt are being burned and Christians assaulted.
Christians in Indonesia are forbidden from even using the word "allah" and can be jailed for even saying it. Christians are regularly victims of violence at Muslim hands.
Multiple Muslim countries have the death penalty for anyone converting to Christianity, Muslim leaders are calling for the death of those who make cartoons of Mohammed. etc. etc. etc.

Just where is that tolerance you are speaking of?

Pretending you are correct, and ignoring the violence that Muslims used to spread their faith even hundreds of years before the Crusades, that means Christianity went from violence and oppression to freedom and tolerance.

And during that same time, Islam went from a semblence of tolerance to systematic violence, even against fellow Muslims.



"and until recently, Jews than Christian states" - Aspen

-- I guess the "recently" ended in 1948, huh?
Since then there have been multiple attempts to wipe Israel off the face of the earth by those Muslim nations you claim are tolerant.



"What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule." - Aspen

-- Your implication that it is understandable for Muslims to act the way they act today because they are just behaving the same way Christians were when Christianity was that age is insulting to moderate Muslims as well as anyone who has an ounce of common sense. It also makes you look....none too bright.

Either you knew that Muslims had incorporated violence to spread their faith a couple of hundred years before the Crusades or you didn't.
If you did know, then you intentionally omitted it and were dishonest.
If you didn't know, well....



.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Islam

Non-Muslims under Islamic law would be held under the status of dhimmi (from Arabic ذميّ, dh as th pronounced like in this) were allowed to "practice their religion, subject to certain conditions, and to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy" and guaranteed their personal safety and security of property, in return for paying tribute and acknowledging Muslim rule.[sup][1][/sup] Taxation from the perspective of thimmis who came under the Muslim rule, was "a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes"[sup][2][/sup] (but now lower under the Muslim rule[sup][3][/sup][sup][4][/sup]) and from the point of view of the Muslim conqueror was a material proof of the dhimmi's subjection.[sup][2][/sup] Various restrictions and legal disabilities were placed on dhimmis, such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[sup][5][/sup]

"The main advantage of the dhimmis over Muslims was the guarantee of their protection without the responsibility to actively engage in that protection themselves”.[sup][6][/sup]

The Qur'an distinguishes between the monotheistic People of the Book (ahl al-kitab) (Jews, Christians, Sabians and others), and polytheists or idolaters on the other hand.[sup][citation needed][/sup] There are certain kind of restrictions, when involved with People of the Book, do not apply to polytheists. One example is Muslim males being allowed to marry a Christian or Jew, but not a polytheist.

The Qur'an explicitly promises salvation for all righteous Christians:

"Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve."[sup][7][/sup]

The Qur'an also makes it clear that the Christians will be nearest in love to those who follow the Qur'an and praises Christians for being humble and wise:

"...You will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those who say: “We are Christians”; that is because among them are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
And if they hear what was sent down to the messenger you see their eyes flooding with tears, for what they have known as the truth, they say: “Our Lord, we believe, so record us with the witnesses.”
“And why should we not believe in God and what has come to us of the truth? And we yearn that our Lord admits us with the righteous people.”
So God recompensed them for what they have said with estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein; such is the recompense of the good doers.[sup][8][/sup]




Christianity

Everyone has studied the Crusades against the Moslems, who had taken over people and lands formerly Christian and under Christian rule: in the south Egypt and the Levant, in the east the rest of the Byzantium Empire which included Anatolia (now Turkey), as well as Albania and Yugoslavia, in the west Spain and even up to the south of France. (Of course prior to their Christianisation, these people and countries adhered to pre-Christian religions.)



1085 - At the Council of Clermont, the First Crusade ...was called by Pope Urban II against Muslims in the Holy Lands.​


A rabble of some 150,000 to 300,000 persons, mostly the dregs of society mixed with military mercenaries, set out[font="'Times New Roman"] across southern Europe, killing, torturing, raping and looting as they went. [/font]One division slaughtered 10,000 Jews in the Rhineland[font="'Times New Roman"], then forgot about the Holy Land and dispersed. Two other divisions did so much harm in Hungary that native soldiers rose up against them and destroyed them all. Multitudes died along the way, of sickness, hunger, or injuries brought on by their violence. A remnant survived to plunder the too-hospitable Greeks, then to enter Constantinople. There, stronger crusaders sold off the weaker ones as slaves, to finance their own provisions. Finally, [/font]a remaining 7,000 or so crossed the Bosporus and were attacked by the Turks, who soon killed them all[font="'Times New Roman"].[/font]​
[font="'Times New Roman"]The first waves having failed to achieve anything, more were sent off in the direction of the Holy Land.[/font]
Pope Urban II instigated the first crusade in the end of the 11th century ...mobilised a gigantic army from the whole of Europe [which] marched eastwards to "save" Jerusalem from the Moslems. [In] 1099 the army attacked the holy city. The result was a complete slaughter, and according to the Chronicles, God's holy soldiers massacred almost 70,000 people.​

These Crusades against the Moslems and Jews of the Middle-East, as well as those against the Eastern Churches (Orthodox) are well-known and covered in all history books. There were a total of 8 official Crusades, and several "unofficial" ones. Less well-known are those against Christian sects that were branded heretical:
Chronicles record a story of a crusader-bishop who referred to the impaled heads of slain Muslims as a joyful spectacle for the people of God.When Muslim cities were captured by Christian crusaders, it was standard operating procedure for all inhabitants - no matter what their age - to be summarily killed. ...Jews who took refuge in their synagogues would be burned alive, not unlike the treatment they received in Europe.

In his reports about the conquest of Jerusalem, Chronicler Raymond of Aguilers wrote that "It was a just and marvelous judgment of God, that this place [the temple of Solomon] should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers." St. Bernard announced before the Second Crusade that "The Christian glories in the death of a pagan, because thereby Christ himself is glorified."​



The Inquisition in Spain was enacted to root out Muslims infiltrating the church.

 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
LOL Oh for Pete's sake.

Sorry, Aspen. You are talking about what Islam SHOULD have been and SHOULD be today.

I am dealing with reality -- what Islam actually WAS and currently IS.

Same with Christianity. What it was supposed to be compared to what it ACTUALLY was.

Already pointed out that both Christians and Muslims slaughtered each other and innocent civilians during the Crusades and that Christians also had a dark time of torture and killing in the name of God.

Also pointed out that - unlike Islam - those activities within Christianity are in the distant past and Christianity has drawn much more closely to what God intended it to be.

While Islam was SUPPOSED TO BE what you posted in your last post, It is still nowhere near that.

The practice of Islam today - at least the Islam practiced by the majority of nations in the Middle and Far East - is still involved in the evils that cause the oppression, deaths, and mutilations of people, both Muslim and non-Muslim.


Sorry, but if you are going to try your patented moving-target-to-change-the-focus-of-your-original-point, you are going to have to get better at it.



Back to your original statement that kicked off our interaction:

"What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule." - Aspen

- Besides being insulting to Muslims, that statement shows either a misunderstanding or dishonesty on your part.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Foreigner - yeah, I've seen your attempt at reality, please leave it to the experts.

It was funny in the beginning - you know, when you insulted me instead of addressing my posts - now the monotony is just sad.

You still believe that I just pull my theories out of thin air, don't you? As if, only complete morons or liars would ever dare consider my ideas........

The fact is, my ideas come from something called books; hard to imagine, perhaps, but I am a student of history.

I know, I know, If you were really interested in understanding history, you would try reading on the subject; I am not holding my breath.

After conversing with you over the past 6 months, I have learned that you are only interested in partisan rhetoric - if it fits the conservative Christian worldview, it must be right - and if it is right, it must be Christian. And if you encounter any differing opinion - label it liberal and personally attack! What a waste.
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
Foreigner - yeah, I've seen your attempt at reality, please leave it to the experts.

It was funny in the beginning - you know, when you insulted me instead of addressing my posts - now the monotony is just sad.

You still believe that I just pull my theories out of thin air, don't you? As if, only complete morons or liars would ever dare consider my ideas........

The fact is, my ideas come from something called books; hard to imagine, perhaps, but I am a student of history.

I know, I know, If you were really interested in understanding history, you would try reading on the subject; I am not holding my breath.

After conversing with you over the past 6 months, I have learned that you are only interested in partisan rhetoric - if it fits the conservative Christian worldview, it must be right - and if it is right, it must be Christian. And if you encounter any differing opinion - label it liberal and personally attack! What a waste.


Translation: You cannot defend your original statement that our conversation is based off of.

That statement was: What were Christians doing 500 years ago? Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity and based on our history, they are right on schedule." - Aspen

You resort to the very slights that you criticize others for. Yet another indicator that you cannot support your original claim.

That very claim that shows that if you truly were a "student of history" you wouldn't have embarassed yourself by making.

The cutting and pasting you did from online documents is about how Islam was SUPPOSED TO BE.

But the FACTS are that the violance associated with Islam was operating AT THE SAME TIME Christianity was going through its brutality periods.

That is a little thing informed people like to call "historical fact."

That PROVES that your little "they are right on schedule" comment was not just wrong, but for you - a self-described "student of history" - embarassingly so.

Your original statement is as insulting to Islam as it is a glaring indicator of your lack of historic knowledge.