Homosexuality: Is it the way a person is born?

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Are homosexuals born that way?


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Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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The Bible consistantly speaks against homosexuality! that is in both OT and NT.

Eve and Adam!




Discussions take place frequently as to the reason that Satan approached Eve and not Adam, to partake of the fruit of the tree “of the knowledge of good and evil”, Gen. 2:9, 2:17, 3:1-5.

Some say that Eve was more gullible and suggestible than Adam, being a woman, and there may or may not be some truth in that point. Others say that both were equally susceptible and that Satan just happened to meet Eve first, but Satan always acts with purpose!

We now know that death entered the world because of that act of Eve’s, Gen. 2:17, it is certain that Satan’s tempting of Eve was by design, as Satan’s deceptive ability is on record, Gen. 3:1.

A further possible reason that Eve was approached, and Adam followed, has been suggested as Adam’s great love of Eve, and has been described as “Adam loving Eve too much”!

However, when one remembers that the target of Satan was Adam, not Eve; Satan’s plan clearly had a killer punch in its formulation. God had formed man/Adam first, Gen. 2:7, and had given him instructions re the Garden of Eden; Gen. 2:16, and as such was first in God’s order of Creation and responsibility, as Adam, not Eve was answerable to God at that time, Gen. 3:9.

When one considers the grave responsibility that Adam carried to obey God, Satan knew that a mere appearance, and suggestion by him to Adam to take of the Forbidden Fruit would probably not succeed, and he knew that in all likelihood he would only have one chance with Adam, as he would report Satan’s activity to God in their daily contact/ communion!

It is shown in Scripture that Satan had held high Office under God at some stage in the past, as a “covering Cherub”, Ezek. 28:13, and the whole of the twenty eighth Chapter, and Isa. 14, confirms his rise and eventual future destruction. His Domain was described as “the holy mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14. This state continued until “iniquity was found in thee”, 28:15, which emphasises that Satan had choice, which he exercised to challenge Almighty God, in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, 6,17, and Isa. 13-14. It is important to note, that Adam and Eve also were given free will, Gen. 2:17

When attempting to understand what Satan thought he knew would work in his assault on Adam, he clearly had knowledge and or experience, or both to call on, which in his calculated plan against Adam, gave him a high degree of certainty of success.

Here we can use Scripture record in this effort to solve this puzzle of Eden.

Satan’s own Fall from the Grace of Almighty God was due to his freewill choice to challenge God in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, and to love his own self, Ezek. 28:17! That self love replaced his love and duty to God as the “covering cherub”, which position entailed presumably the “covering” of the heavenly beings in the “mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14!

When remembering that all heavens created beings (angels etc.), are described in Scripture as male, the situation in God’s Creation in Eden shows a distinct change in the creation of Eve from Adam! The fact that she was a part of Adam (his rib) Gen. 2:22-25, underlines the statement in Gen. 2:24, shows the legitimacy of the full circle from “rib” to "union", which is called marriage, when under the Ordinance of God; which is man and woman!

Satan had to break that legitimacy to bring to ruin the perfection of that “Ordinance”! He surmised that to sully the perfect circle of “rib” to "union", which is called (marriage) would achieve the objective. He knew that in his own case, his self love and pride of it, had moved him from love of God to his own fallen state, and as his whole effort was from then on, to unseat God, and he has been given certain freedom to attempt such; it was imperative for him to own Adam, to show the failure of God’s Plan before all heavenly Creation, and therefore his superiority over God! See: Satan's Motivation:

Satan therefore approached Eve, changed the words that God had given to Adam re. the forbidden fruit to: “ Ye shall not surely die” Gen.3:4, and the trap was set for Adam; and in so doing he usurped God and Adam, and his efforts have been continual since, and will be until his final demise; Rev. 20:3, and 20:7-10.

How then was the “trap” set, and why would it have the desired effect for Satan? It is the writers contention that when Eve ate of the “forbidden fruit”, she was changed, in Adam’s perception, that she allured him in a new way, in a sexually attractive way, which was different to that attraction before she ate of the forbidden fruit; and knew for the first time that she was naked Gen. 3:7. At that stage Adam had not eaten, but was with her, and perceived the change in her; AND LIKED WHAT HE PERCEIVED, and joined Eve in the “forbidden fruit”! Also, Satan was using the God given protective love that a man has for his woman, in an enhanced state that she was then in!

The key words used in Gen. 3:6 are; good, pleasant, desired, wise; and are based on Satan's lie and promise in 3:5, "that you will be as God", (not gods as AV 1611). He again attempted to use the same lies against our Lord (the second Adam), in Matt. 4:1-10. What he did not of course say, is that they would have the insights listed above, that he has, and had in perfection as "the covering cherub"! Also, he did not say they would be "fallen", as he is; and is then and now attempting to convert all created beings, heavenly and on earth to his plan to unseat God Almighty!

When Eve ate of the "forbidden Fruit", her perceptions were changed to Satan's perceptions and in 3:6, (lust "pleasant" of the eyes) corrected as per Comp. 3:6, note by Dr. Bullinger. Adam also liked the change he saw in her, to the point of also disobeying God's instruction, probably as per above comment and correction by Dr. Bullinger.

The argument is used against the above, that in Gen. 3:7, that the reference is to both of them. However, it is clear in the narrative that Eve was fallen first, and the time gap was sufficient for Adam to “perceive, and like what he perceived”. Many women object to this interpretation (including a female Bible Teacher of the writers acquaintance), and state that Eve was as important as Adam; which is not disputed, but Adam held the responsibility, and therefore in general terms and God’s eyes, Adam's was/is the failure! Also many women object to the sexual connotation. That is to be expected with the Feminist movements inroads into the female mind and world; the same organisation has lobbied for the male gender reference in the Bible to be changed to female or neuter! The “equality” demanded by vociferous “Feminists”, undermines their Biblical status as child rearers, and as "help meet", to their men, the functions of which are of the most important in the world! A female U.K. Professor stated recently what has been known by American business women for some time now, “that women cannot have it all”, defined as good work life, and good family life, due to one or the other suffering as a result of lack of attention or closeness. This is especially true where children are concerned.

The many references to Adam show his responsibility to God; Gen. 2:15-16, 19, 20, 3:8-9, 16-17 and 24. It is interesting to note that Eve is cursed by God, but not Adam. For Adam’s sin of being persuaded by Eve to eat the “Forbidden fruit”, the ground is cursed; and his is the labour of frustration all his days, which most men will admit. The major point here, is that Adam "listened to the voice of his wife", Gen. 3:17, and ate the forbidden fruit, instead of doing what God had said! That does not mean that Adam should not hear, or listen to his wife! It does mean that he should not obey her when he knew she was wrong! In this he used his free will to disobey God, and obey his wife! This phenomena is now widespread!

Eve’s curse entails childbirth and rearing, and her husband ruling over her Gen. 3:16, a condition guaranteed to drive many modern women to distraction and rejection of God's Word. However, the condition is confirmed in 1Tim. 2:12 and Eph. 5:22-23. The major difference now to Genesis, is that both Eve and Adam, (all Christian married couples) are seen by God through the Sacrifice of Jesus the Christ, as per Eph. 5:22-23.

Recently a scientist said on a TV program that “men have evolved to enjoy the female body instead of their minds”. That of course is an atheist’s view, and as Christ-ones know, God’s Word is the only source of Truth, and the truth is that Adam fell for Eve’s body, in a different way to originally ordained, Gen. 1:28, and agreed to eat the “forbidden fruit” because of what he perceived/saw, and liked! Many have said, or alluded, that the “original sin” was sex. That is clearly not so as Gen. 1:28 shows. “Original sin”, is disobedience to God’s instruction, by first Eve, then Adam. Eve was deceived by Satan, Adam was tempted by Eve!

Satan has used the same formulation, i.e. corrupted sexuality, again since Eden in the form of “fallen angels” mating with “the daughters of men”, Gen. 6:2, and 6:4. See : Nephilim, who were they, and why: This was purposed to stop the promise of God embodied in the promise of Messiah, as shown in Gen. 3:15 coming to fruition, as the “seed of the woman” had to remain unsullied by any other than human seed. See : Nephilim;

The human line from Adam to Mary the mother of Jesus had to be completely unsullied by any attempt of Satan, otherwise the conception of Jesus by the “Holy Spirit” of God, would have been impossible! See: Genealogies of Jesus Christ (Separate study.)

Satan is still using perversions of all kinds, (particularly sexual) in all parts of human society to mislead and enslave all who will not see the Truth of God in Christ!

Satan seemed at that early stage of this Creation to have achieved a major victory, but as shown in Gen. 3:15, the struggle had only just begun in this Creation. It was certainly the case that no ordinary human could withstand and resist Satan, but in the wisdom of God, the Gen. 3:15 promise referred only to “the seed of the woman”, without reference to the Father!

The ultimate fulfilment of this Promise is shown in the Gospel of Matt. 1: 25, and in Luke 1:26-38. Here, the “seed of the woman” is Mary the espoused of Joseph, and the “Father” is God Almighty in the form of the “Holy Spirit”! The “holy thing” is Jesus of Nazareth, “God Incarnate”, who came to earth, “to save His people from their sins”, initially Israel, but now open to all!

Jesus came to undo what Satan had corrupted in Eden, when he successfully forced death into the world, via Eve and Adam, and God barred the “tree of life”, Gen. 3:22-24, from them, and all mankind from then on. Jesus, the “second Adam” came that “all who will may come”, to Jesus the Christ of God, and in believing in Him, may have eternal life. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”, 1 Cor. 15:22.

In Christ Jesus, the perfect union of man and woman, (the rib to union) is restored, as they as Christ-ones are seen through Jesus the Christ by the Father, as perfect! The reason for that is that they are not married under human rules, but before God Himself! The clear message is that the God given union (marriage) is for a man and a woman, no matter what society and Governments say in the present world situation regarding morals!

The rib was not taken from Adam to create a man, but to create a woman; Eve!
 
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Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
937
30
28
The Bible consistantly speaks against homosexuality! that is in both OT and NT.

Eve and Adam!




Discussions take place frequently as to the reason that Satan approached Eve and not Adam, to partake of the fruit of the tree “of the knowledge of good and evil”, Gen. 2:9, 2:17, 3:1-5.

Some say that Eve was more gullible and suggestible than Adam, being a woman, and there may or may not be some truth in that point. Others say that both were equally susceptible and that Satan just happened to meet Eve first, but Satan always acts with purpose!

We now know that death entered the world because of that act of Eve’s, Gen. 2:17, it is certain that Satan’s tempting of Eve was by design, as Satan’s deceptive ability is on record, Gen. 3:1.

A further possible reason that Eve was approached, and Adam followed, has been suggested as Adam’s great love of Eve, and has been described as “Adam loving Eve too much”!

However, when one remembers that the target of Satan was Adam, not Eve; Satan’s plan clearly had a killer punch in its formulation. God had formed man/Adam first, Gen. 2:7, and had given him instructions re the Garden of Eden; Gen. 2:16, and as such was first in God’s order of Creation and responsibility, as Adam, not Eve was answerable to God at that time, Gen. 3:9.

When one considers the grave responsibility that Adam carried to obey God, Satan knew that a mere appearance, and suggestion by him to Adam to take of the Forbidden Fruit would probably not succeed, and he knew that in all likelihood he would only have one chance with Adam, as he would report Satan’s activity to God in their daily contact/ communion!

It is shown in Scripture that Satan had held high Office under God at some stage in the past, as a “covering Cherub”, Ezek. 28:13, and the whole of the twenty eighth Chapter, and Isa. 14, confirms his rise and eventual future destruction. His Domain was described as “the holy mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14. This state continued until “iniquity was found in thee”, 28:15, which emphasises that Satan had choice, which he exercised to challenge Almighty God, in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, 6,17, and Isa. 13-14. It is important to note, that Adam and Eve also were given free will, Gen. 2:17

When attempting to understand what Satan thought he knew would work in his assault on Adam, he clearly had knowledge and or experience, or both to call on, which in his calculated plan against Adam, gave him a high degree of certainty of success.

Here we can use Scripture record in this effort to solve this puzzle of Eden.

Satan’s own Fall from the Grace of Almighty God was due to his freewill choice to challenge God in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, and to love his own self, Ezek. 28:17! That self love replaced his love and duty to God as the “covering cherub”, which position entailed presumably the “covering” of the heavenly beings in the “mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14!

When remembering that all heavens created beings (angels etc.), are described in Scripture as male, the situation in God’s Creation in Eden shows a distinct change in the creation of Eve from Adam! The fact that she was a part of Adam (his rib) Gen. 2:22-25, underlines the statement in Gen. 2:24, shows the legitimacy of the full circle from “rib” to "union", which is called marriage, when under the Ordinance of God; which is man and woman!

Satan had to break that legitimacy to bring to ruin the perfection of that “Ordinance”! He surmised that to sully the perfect circle of “rib” to "union", which is called (marriage) would achieve the objective. He knew that in his own case, his self love and pride of it, had moved him from love of God to his own fallen state, and as his whole effort was from then on, to unseat God, and he has been given certain freedom to attempt such; it was imperative for him to own Adam, to show the failure of God’s Plan before all heavenly Creation, and therefore his superiority over God! See: Satan's Motivation:

Satan therefore approached Eve, changed the words that God had given to Adam re. the forbidden fruit to: “ Ye shall not surely die” Gen.3:4, and the trap was set for Adam; and in so doing he usurped God and Adam, and his efforts have been continual since, and will be until his final demise; Rev. 20:3, and 20:7-10.

How then was the “trap” set, and why would it have the desired effect for Satan? It is the writers contention that when Eve ate of the “forbidden fruit”, she was changed, in Adam’s perception, that she allured him in a new way, in a sexually attractive way, which was different to that attraction before she ate of the forbidden fruit; and knew for the first time that she was naked Gen. 3:7. At that stage Adam had not eaten, but was with her, and perceived the change in her; AND LIKED WHAT HE PERCEIVED, and joined Eve in the “forbidden fruit”! Also, Satan was using the God given protective love that a man has for his woman, in an enhanced state that she was then in!

The key words used in Gen. 3:6 are; good, pleasant, desired, wise; and are based on Satan's lie and promise in 3:5, "that you will be as God", (not gods as AV 1611). He again attempted to use the same lies against our Lord (the second Adam), in Matt. 4:1-10. What he did not of course say, is that they would have the insights listed above, that he has, and had in perfection as "the covering cherub"! Also, he did not say they would be "fallen", as he is; and is then and now attempting to convert all created beings, heavenly and on earth to his plan to unseat God Almighty!

When Eve ate of the "forbidden Fruit", her perceptions were changed to Satan's perceptions and in 3:6, (lust "pleasant" of the eyes) corrected as per Comp. 3:6, note by Dr. Bullinger. Adam also liked the change he saw in her, to the point of also disobeying God's instruction, probably as per above comment and correction by Dr. Bullinger.

The argument is used against the above, that in Gen. 3:7, that the reference is to both of them. However, it is clear in the narrative that Eve was fallen first, and the time gap was sufficient for Adam to “perceive, and like what he perceived”. Many women object to this interpretation (including a female Bible Teacher of the writers acquaintance), and state that Eve was as important as Adam; which is not disputed, but Adam held the responsibility, and therefore in general terms and God’s eyes, Adam's was/is the failure! Also many women object to the sexual connotation. That is to be expected with the Feminist movements inroads into the female mind and world; the same organisation has lobbied for the male gender reference in the Bible to be changed to female or neuter! The “equality” demanded by vociferous “Feminists”, undermines their Biblical status as child rearers, and as "help meet", to their men, the functions of which are of the most important in the world! A female U.K. Professor stated recently what has been known by American business women for some time now, “that women cannot have it all”, defined as good work life, and good family life, due to one or the other suffering as a result of lack of attention or closeness. This is especially true where children are concerned.

The many references to Adam show his responsibility to God; Gen. 2:15-16, 19, 20, 3:8-9, 16-17 and 24. It is interesting to note that Eve is cursed by God, but not Adam. For Adam’s sin of being persuaded by Eve to eat the “Forbidden fruit”, the ground is cursed; and his is the labour of frustration all his days, which most men will admit. The major point here, is that Adam "listened to the voice of his wife", Gen. 3:17, and ate the forbidden fruit, instead of doing what God had said! That does not mean that Adam should not hear, or listen to his wife! It does mean that he should not obey her when he knew she was wrong! In this he used his free will to disobey God, and obey his wife! This phenomena is now widespread!

Eve’s curse entails childbirth and rearing, and her husband ruling over her Gen. 3:16, a condition guaranteed to drive many modern women to distraction and rejection of God's Word. However, the condition is confirmed in 1Tim. 2:12 and Eph. 5:22-23. The major difference now to Genesis, is that both Eve and Adam, (all Christian married couples) are seen by God through the Sacrifice of Jesus the Christ, as per Eph. 5:22-23.

Recently a scientist said on a TV program that “men have evolved to enjoy the female body instead of their minds”. That of course is an atheist’s view, and as Christ-ones know, God’s Word is the only source of Truth, and the truth is that Adam fell for Eve’s body, in a different way to originally ordained, Gen. 1:28, and agreed to eat the “forbidden fruit” because of what he perceived/saw, and liked! Many have said, or alluded, that the “original sin” was sex. That is clearly not so as Gen. 1:28 shows. “Original sin”, is disobedience to God’s instruction, by first Eve, then Adam. Eve was deceived by Satan, Adam was tempted by Eve!

Satan has used the same formulation, i.e. corrupted sexuality, again since Eden in the form of “fallen angels” mating with “the daughters of men”, Gen. 6:2, and 6:4. See : Nephilim, who were they, and why: This was purposed to stop the promise of God embodied in the promise of Messiah, as shown in Gen. 3:15 coming to fruition, as the “seed of the woman” had to remain unsullied by any other than human seed. See : Nephilim;

The human line from Adam to Mary the mother of Jesus had to be completely unsullied by any attempt of Satan, otherwise the conception of Jesus by the “Holy Spirit” of God, would have been impossible! See: Genealogies of Jesus Christ (Separate study.)

Satan is still using perversions of all kinds, (particularly sexual) in all parts of human society to mislead and enslave all who will not see the Truth of God in Christ!

Satan seemed at that early stage of this Creation to have achieved a major victory, but as shown in Gen. 3:15, the struggle had only just begun in this Creation. It was certainly the case that no ordinary human could withstand and resist Satan, but in the wisdom of God, the Gen. 3:15 promise referred only to “the seed of the woman”, without reference to the Father!

The ultimate fulfilment of this Promise is shown in the Gospel of Matt. 1: 25, and in Luke 1:26-38. Here, the “seed of the woman” is Mary the espoused of Joseph, and the “Father” is God Almighty in the form of the “Holy Spirit”! The “holy thing” is Jesus of Nazareth, “God Incarnate”, who came to earth, “to save His people from their sins”, initially Israel, but now open to all!

Jesus came to undo what Satan had corrupted in Eden, when he successfully forced death into the world, via Eve and Adam, and God barred the “tree of life”, Gen. 3:22-24, from them, and all mankind from then on. Jesus, the “second Adam” came that “all who will may come”, to Jesus the Christ of God, and in believing in Him, may have eternal life. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”, 1 Cor. 15:22.

In Christ Jesus, the perfect union of man and woman, (the rib to union) is restored, as they as Christ-ones are seen through Jesus the Christ by the Father, as perfect! The reason for that is that they are not married under human rules, but before God Himself! The clear message is that the God given union (marriage) is for a man and a woman, no matter what society and Governments say in the present world situation regarding morals!

The rib was not taken from Adam to create a man, but to create a woman; Eve!
 
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KingJ

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Wow, thanks for the effort in that post Floyd. Couldn't agree more.

lukethreesix said:
People may be born gay. We all are born with particular God-given weaknesses that we are to overcome and endure. "My grace is sufficient for you."
being gay is not a sin, giving in to the temptation and living thelifestyle, practicing the act is a sin. But it ain't theworst sin (not even close). Christians need to preach against the sins that the church are committing, not those of the world (take the plank out our own eye first so we can see clearly to take out the speck from others.)
According to Jesus, sexual sin is a speck compared to the plank of being judgmental. (Judge not....the prostitutes and tax collectors will inherit the kingdom before you)
Lets not beat around the bush. Gay = verb. It is called being feminine in the absence of unnatural sex. As for the second half, Paul disagrees 100% with you in 1 Cor 5.
aspen said:
the only reason we can recognize the personal sin in others is to increase our empathy and compassion for our neighbors.
If I told you I was gay, what would you say to me?
theophilus said:
The answer would depend on what you mean by "homosexuality". The word is sometimes used to mean the same sex attraction that some people experience and sometimes to the act of engaging in sex with someone of the same sex.

Because of the effect of sin on the human race people are born with various physical and mental defects. In some cases their sexual makeup is defective so that they are attracted to others of the same sex. This condition isn't a sin but the result is that they are exposed to a specific temptation that heterosexuals aren't. Some yield to the temptation and commit sin; others resist it. Here are two good sites about this subject:

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

http://www.christopheryuan.com/mobile/index.html
Agreed! Everytime I beat someone up. I explain to my victim that I can't help it, I was born with agrressive genes.

For a Christian to commit a gay act is terrible. Not only because he is in mortal sin...but also because there is a fellow / likely unsaved victim being inoculated against Christianity / pushed further from God.

Conclusion = Evil, evil, evil, evil = hell = worthy reward for a Christian continuing in it!
 

aspen

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There are people who, based on a combination of genes and environment, do not attach to their caregivers - this condition, called disorganized attachment, can manifest as antisocial personality disorder. Many of these people cannot help beating up people or killing others. Most people in prison are antisocial. They need to be incarcerated to stop their violence towards the general population. Just like being gay, being antisocial is not a sin, acting on it is.

As far as talking to you about being gay, I would first get to know you and then, inevitability talk with you about living out the gospel by loving our neighbor. You already know that acting on your sexuality is a sin so it probably would not come up unless you brought it up. I do not discuss my own sexuality with others - even close friends and I would expect the same from you.
 

jos681

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I would like to put my two cents worth in please!!! I have studied the Bible for many years now and I think I can talk with the best of them. I will try to explain the homosexuality thoughts concerning whether gays were born into it or acquired it. I have some what a thought on this and would like to explain. The Holy Bible from the beginning has taught us of these things, we were just not seeking deep enough to see it. Now I know that this is going to be controversial to many probably because they won't be able to understand it. God bless those that can.
The story of Adam and Eve starts out my scenario. Fallen Angels from Heaven came down and taught Adam and eve many different things. One of these things was different acts of sexual intercourse. I won't spend a lot of time saying everything that the devil and Adam and eve said. It will take too long. Eve had two children, Cain and Abel. One child was by Satan (Cain) and the other was by Adam (Abel). One child was of the wicked one and the other by the son of God.(Adam). Now, these people had children also. now the seed that came down through Satan was of a wild nature because it was mixed with a heavenly body and an earthly body. These two bodies cannot mix because they are from two different worlds. The results of this brings forth raging wild people. now these people have children also. eventually they die. now being dead where can their spirit go? it cannot enter into heavenly places nor any where else. that spirit is bound to this world until the end time to roam over the earth seeking whom they may devour and walking in dry places. These spirits have some power left because of their angelic background.
For the sake of time and space I will not fill up the page with different scripture. If you are true Christians then you can bring to remembrance certain happenings.
These spirits can now enter into the souls of certain people. There are only certain ways that a bad spirit can enter the soul.
1. during the fetus stage of a child. 2. When the soul is on drugs, passed out from alcohol or unconcious from a certain happening. These bad spirits are called devils, demons and etc. The demon cannot enter the fetus stage if the mother and father are covered by the seal of God (the Holy Spirit). The demon can enter the soul of the fetus if the mother or father was on drugs during conception. their souls will be weakened so that there can be a take over. A person passed out from alcohol is in danger of receiving a host. Any time a soul is weakened it is in danger of a host (demon)
Therefore I say to you that a person can be born homosexual or he/she can receive it during their life time. Those that are gay or lesbian have a demon spirit in them. Most gays/lesbians are good people. it's that one spirit that has them down. Please don't hate them for they are still as your equal. I believe that if a gay wants to truly be straight he/she can pray with earnestness, become saved by the blood of the Lamb and the demon will be expelled. This is my belief. YOU MAY NOW FEEL FREE TO POUNCE UPON ME. (be careful, I might be more knowledgable than you think)
 

KingJ

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I agree with you Jos681. Except to clarify that Cain chose to be evil, he was not the spawn of satan...it seemd you implied that :p.

Homosexual discussions on Christians sites are always about whether or not it is ok for Christians to be homosexuals. Paul was clear we are not to judge those outside, only those within in 1 Cor 5.
 

michaelvpardo

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jos681 said:
I would like to put my two cents worth in please!!! I have studied the Bible for many years now and I think I can talk with the best of them. I will try to explain the homosexuality thoughts concerning whether gays were born into it or acquired it. I have some what a thought on this and would like to explain. The Holy Bible from the beginning has taught us of these things, we were just not seeking deep enough to see it. Now I know that this is going to be controversial to many probably because they won't be able to understand it. God bless those that can.
The story of Adam and Eve starts out my scenario. Fallen Angels from Heaven came down and taught Adam and eve many different things. One of these things was different acts of sexual intercourse. I won't spend a lot of time saying everything that the devil and Adam and eve said. It will take too long. Eve had two children, Cain and Abel. One child was by Satan (Cain) and the other was by Adam (Abel). One child was of the wicked one and the other by the son of God.(Adam). Now, these people had children also. now the seed that came down through Satan was of a wild nature because it was mixed with a heavenly body and an earthly body. These two bodies cannot mix because they are from two different worlds. The results of this brings forth raging wild people. now these people have children also. eventually they die. now being dead where can their spirit go? it cannot enter into heavenly places nor any where else. that spirit is bound to this world until the end time to roam over the earth seeking whom they may devour and walking in dry places. These spirits have some power left because of their angelic background.
For the sake of time and space I will not fill up the page with different scripture. If you are true Christians then you can bring to remembrance certain happenings.
These spirits can now enter into the souls of certain people. There are only certain ways that a bad spirit can enter the soul.
1. during the fetus stage of a child. 2. When the soul is on drugs, passed out from alcohol or unconcious from a certain happening. These bad spirits are called devils, demons and etc. The demon cannot enter the fetus stage if the mother and father are covered by the seal of God (the Holy Spirit). The demon can enter the soul of the fetus if the mother or father was on drugs during conception. their souls will be weakened so that there can be a take over. A person passed out from alcohol is in danger of receiving a host. Any time a soul is weakened it is in danger of a host (demon)
Therefore I say to you that a person can be born homosexual or he/she can receive it during their life time. Those that are gay or lesbian have a demon spirit in them. Most gays/lesbians are good people. it's that one spirit that has them down. Please don't hate them for they are still as your equal. I believe that if a gay wants to truly be straight he/she can pray with earnestness, become saved by the blood of the Lamb and the demon will be expelled. This is my belief. YOU MAY NOW FEEL FREE TO POUNCE UPON ME. (be careful, I might be more knowledgable than you think)
Not the wackiest doctrine that I've ever seen, but certainly consistent with freemasonry, luciferian teaching, and that of a number of cults. Read the Bible and trust what it says; NO other document on this earth expresses consistent truth with verifiable and proven historical satisfaction of prophetic word.
Cain was Adam and Eve's son as was Abel, the other stories are fairy tales (or actually demonic tales).
All men are born with the fallen spirit of Adam, life gives birth to life, kind to kind. All are born with a fallen spirit, the spirit of this age, dead to God, separated from Him by sin, and children of wrath. All must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven, and this is by God's will and not by man's. A man who doesn't have the indwelling Spirit of the living God, received by faith in the Son of God (born again from above) may become a home for unclean spirits, but this is true of every man that is ever born of the seed of Adam.
Homosexuality is not the result of demon possession (though it could be encouraged in a person through such means.) It's just sin by an unnatural bent toward sexual pleasure through perverse means. The marriage bed is the only legitimate outlet for human sexuality, and God defined such expression as the natural relationship between man and woman. Scripture never specifically defines what constitutes legitimate sexual practice, but is very specific about whom is allowed to participate in it. (Note: some people would argue that the sin of Onan, one of the sons of Judah, would be an exception to this, but Onan's sin was in not providing his brother's widow with an heir to carry on the name of his deceased brother.)
 

Floyd

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jos681.:
Scripture says in Gen.4:1 "Adam knew his wife and she bore Cain"!
Floyd.
 

jos681

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Mr Pardo,

I wrote these things that I feel in support of my faith in God. Every person in the world has their own supportive belief however it may be. But it is theirs to hold on to. I shared with you and others on this Christian web site in good faith that I could converse with u all, I would never down grade you or any others in how you interpret your faith, I was willing to share and disperse the holy scriptures and learn from each other. There is so much that I wanted to share but I see now that all you and certain others want to do is argue and demeaner some one else's belief. we could have had a good discussion of what I have written but you chose to cut me down for your own self contentment. I have never heard of Luciferian worship neither do I care to. I am not a member of any cult. I have been saved, sanctified and washed in the blood of the lamb. I became a member of free masonry many years ago but did not stay in it long because of the things I learned of it.
you have as well as the other people on this forum judged me. I will pray for all of you. There is no need to send any more replys to my post as I will never be here again. ( I am sure that this does not affect you one way or another) From here on I will certainly stay away from Christian forums and converse with God on my own. He surely will not ridicule me for the way I believe his word. May God bless you and yours!!!! jos681 signing off
 

michaelvpardo

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jos681 said:
Mr Pardo,

I wrote these things that I feel in support of my faith in God. Every person in the world has their own supportive belief however it may be. But it is theirs to hold on to. I shared with you and others on this Christian web site in good faith that I could converse with u all, I would never down grade you or any others in how you interpret your faith, I was willing to share and disperse the holy scriptures and learn from each other. There is so much that I wanted to share but I see now that all you and certain others want to do is argue and demeaner some one else's belief. we could have had a good discussion of what I have written but you chose to cut me down for your own self contentment. I have never heard of Luciferian worship neither do I care to. I am not a member of any cult. I have been saved, sanctified and washed in the blood of the lamb. I became a member of free masonry many years ago but did not stay in it long because of the things I learned of it.
you have as well as the other people on this forum judged me. I will pray for all of you. There is no need to send any more replys to my post as I will never be here again. ( I am sure that this does not affect you one way or another) From here on I will certainly stay away from Christian forums and converse with God on my own. He surely will not ridicule me for the way I believe his word. May God bless you and yours!!!! jos681 signing off
The Lord has blessed me more than I could ever have imagined and since that which is "mine" is an adopted family in Christ, I know that they are all blessed more than they can imagine. You may have indeed believed Christ, but there is no room in the house of God for fairy tales and demonic doctrines that are purely invention and whose sole purpose is to mislead the biblically illiterate.
 

Fred Lamm

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One of the main arguments for Homosexuals being "born that way" seems to be examples of children who grew up in good homes, were not abused, showed early traits of homosexual orientation and grew up to be homosexual because they could not help it. Let's apply this logic to other sins, such as adultery. Is a man who was raised by faithful parents, was never abused, and show early signs of being a womanizer not responsible for cheating on his wife because he was "born that way" and just cannot help himself? And what about a much more prevalent sin that God really hates, the liar?
What about the thief? We all know people who grew up in an environment which did not encourage these things but grew up to do them anyway. What about the white supremacist who grew up in a non-racist home? All sin is sin, most people just don't want a homosexual lifestyle held up as a shining example for their children the same way that they do not wish the lifestyle of the adulterer or the thief or the liar to be accepted forms of behavior. At what point are people going to stand up and take responsibility for their actions?

Have a Blessed Day!
Fred Lamm
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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Fred Lamm:
One of the main arguments for Homosexuals being "born that way" seems to be examples of children who grew up in good homes, were not abused, showed early traits of homosexual orientation and grew up to be homosexual because they could not help it. Let's apply this logic to other sins, such as adultery. Is a man who was raised by faithful parents, was never abused, and show early signs of being a womanizer not responsible for cheating on his wife because he was "born that way" and just cannot help himself? And what about a much more prevalent sin that God really hates, the liar?
What about the thief? We all know people who grew up in an environment which did not encourage these things but grew up to do them anyway. What about the white supremacist who grew up in a non-racist home? All sin is sin, most people just don't want a homosexual lifestyle held up as a shining example for their children the same way that they do not wish the lifestyle of the adulterer or the thief or the liar to be accepted forms of behavior. At what point are people going to stand up and take responsibility for their actions?

Have a Blessed Day!
Fred Lamm
 

River Jordan

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Jan 30, 2014
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Fred Lamm said:
One of the main arguments for Homosexuals being "born that way" seems to be examples of children who grew up in good homes, were not abused, showed early traits of homosexual orientation and grew up to be homosexual because they could not help it.
In my experience, the main argument for gays "being born that way" is how that's what the vast majority of them say, and have said for a very long time. So when a gay person says to me, "I've always been attracted to the same sex, and have never felt differently", I really don't feel it's my place to tell them "You're wrong", as if I know their feelings and experiences better than they do. I mean, how arrogant is it to say to anyone, "I know your thoughts and feelings better than you"?

But I also wonder....how important is this question? If tomorrow a discovery was made conclusively demonstrating that sexual orientation is biologically determined in both gays and straights, what would change? Would anyone here start treating gays differently? Would your views on the issue change at all?
 

Fred Lamm

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River Jordan
So when a gay person says to me, "I've always been attracted to the same sex, and have never felt differently", I really don't feel it's my place to tell them "You're wrong", as if I know their feelings and experiences better than they do. I mean, how arrogant is it to say to anyone, "I know your thoughts and feelings better than you"?
I never claimed to know anyone's thoughts or feelings and I'm sure that the adulterer and the thief rationalize their behavior with their "thoughts and feelings". But no other sinner comes to Christ insisting that their continued sin be accepted. That is the real heart of this issue. Homosexuals want me and everyone else to accept their lifestyle. If you want to live in sin, then both God and I will let you, but don't try to teach my soon to be five year old daughter that its "O.K." that little Johnny has two moms. Children are not little adults who can make the right decision if you give them all the information. Also God's word will not change no matter what man has to say about the subject. If you don't like the fact that God has labeled this behavior as sin, you need to take it up with Him. I am merely obedient to the word.

Have a Blessed Day,
Fred Lamm
 

River Jordan

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Fred Lamm said:
I never claimed to know anyone's thoughts or feelings and I'm sure that the adulterer and the thief rationalize their behavior with their "thoughts and feelings". But no other sinner comes to Christ insisting that their continued sin be accepted. That is the real heart of this issue.
So regarding my second paragraph then, if it were discovered that gays are "born that way" it would make a difference in how you approach the issue?

Homosexuals want me and everyone else to accept their lifestyle. If you want to live in sin, then both God and I will let you, but don't try to teach my soon to be five year old daughter that its "O.K." that little Johnny has two moms.
I don't think anyone is demanding that you "accept" homosexuality. You are free to believe whatever you want about it. The reason schools mention "Johnny has two moms" is because in a lot of cases, kids are going to be in school with a "Johnny" who has two moms or dads, and the school (being a representative of the government) is acknowledging that fact. I'm not sure it's appropriate for schools to pretend gays don't exist, or to go the other route and teach kids negative things about gays. All that would do is cause further strife, bullying, and problems in the schools.

Children are not little adults who can make the right decision if you give them all the information.
So what do you tell your daughter about gays? If she goes to public school and eventually has a classmate from a same-sex couple, what do you think her reaction will be?

Also God's word will not change no matter what man has to say about the subject. If you don't like the fact that God has labeled this behavior as sin, you need to take it up with Him. I am merely obedient to the word.
I think you're making the common mistake of confusing my position with that of homosexuality not being a Biblical sin. To be absolutely clear, I believe it is a sin.
 

Floyd

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River Jordan said:
In my experience, the main argument for gays "being born that way" is how that's what the vast majority of them say, and have said for a very long time. So when a gay person says to me, "I've always been attracted to the same sex, and have never felt differently", I really don't feel it's my place to tell them "You're wrong", as if I know their feelings and experiences better than they do. I mean, how arrogant is it to say to anyone, "I know your thoughts and feelings better than you"?

But I also wonder....how important is this question? If tomorrow a discovery was made conclusively demonstrating that sexual orientation is biologically determined in both gays and straights, what would change? Would anyone here start treating gays differently? Would your views on the issue change at all?
The "discovery" would be human, and therefore flawed (towards Satan) the god of this world at present!
Of more interest is why you (as a professing Christian) constantly fight Scripture?
Will the real "River" stand up!
You fight the Creation account in Gen.; you are a self confessed (sympathiser ) with homosexuals; who are you?
Floyd.
 

River Jordan

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Floyd said:
The "discovery" would be human, and therefore flawed (towards Satan) the god of this world at present!
Oh, well that certainly explains a lot about your posts. :rolleyes:


Of more interest is why you (as a professing Christian) constantly fight Scripture?
Will the real "River" stand up!
You fight the Creation account in Gen.; you are a self confessed (sympathiser ) with homosexuals; who are you?
Don't confuse "doesn't agree with Floyd" with "fights scripture". And I have no idea what you mean by "self-confessed sympathizer with homosexuals".
 

Floyd

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River:
Floyd, on 16 Apr 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:
Floyd said:
The "discovery" would be human, and therefore flawed (towards Satan) the god of this world at present!
Oh, well that certainly explains a lot about your posts. :rolleyes:

Good! Now perhaps you can move on to a more appropriate Board! Floyd.



Quote

Of more interest is why you (as a professing Christian) constantly fight Scripture?
Will the real "River" stand up!
You fight the Creation account in Gen.; you are a self confessed (sympathiser ) with homosexuals; who are you?
Don't confuse "doesn't agree with Floyd" with "fights scripture". And I have no idea what you mean by "self-confessed sympathizer with homosexuals".

You obviously need to study your own previous posts, to catch up! Floyd.