Actually I wasn't referring to you. I know almost nothing about you. The 'phoney gospel' I am referring to is the one that replaces Biblical doctrine.
Homosexuality
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Which reminds me of a thread from a while back, maybe this one? I commented that charges of 'gay bashing by Christians' are usually 'Christian bashing by gays'. They are guilty of most everything they charge Christians of doing. Especially homosexual sympathizers.
Have i painted all of them with the same brush? but i think my point was to try to come to understand them more so Shirley as i think i said some can be ok, and i don't see them as any real problem but some types they are a problem.
So lets talk about it ? or is it just PC position.
@ Mr. Roesberger I was too hard on your post. I apologize! I would like to understand people who are homosexual from childhood. It seems to me also there is a difference between sexually immoral and them. I just feel like life is so hard for them. The way Fire7 talked about not even wanting to talk and trying to lower his voice so people would not know he is Gay. And then knowing how many of the men I know, would beat him up just for being in our town, if they thought they could get away with it. Two times I have said just a little to try to stick up for gay people and I felt like people were upset with me for it.
It is 100% incompatible to be a God fearing Christian and a homosexual.
It is also 100% incompatible to be a practicing Christian and a homosexual.
That being said, it is totally compatible to be homosexual and have christian values with the one obvious exception. But that exception is only harmfull to the individual practicing homosexuality, and doesnt hurt others. For this reason I dont see any problem with allowing homosexual a normal place in society, just as we allow communists and muslims.
My problem with homosexuality are their interest organizations lobbying for federal and state aid and finance and special legislation making homosexuals 1st class citizens and hetrosexuals 2nd class citizens which is what affirmative action and special protection fundamentally does from a socialogical perspective. The essential part of that lobbying is fueling the myth that homosexuals are being oppressed which is a blatant lie as the special protection laws empirically show, and their favorite enemy are christian institutions and norms.
I really can't bring myself to accept homosexuality as a viable social status for some organizations. It divides Homosexuals from Hetrosexuals who might otherwise cooperate fluently. For example homosexual conservative organizations are just harmfull and should integrate into normal conservative organizations, leaving some spokesperson front the image of homosexual conservatism with integrity for example.
It is also 100% incompatible to be a practicing Christian and a homosexual.
That being said, it is totally compatible to be homosexual and have christian values with the one obvious exception. But that exception is only harmfull to the individual practicing homosexuality, and doesnt hurt others. For this reason I dont see any problem with allowing homosexual a normal place in society, just as we allow communists and muslims.
My problem with homosexuality are their interest organizations lobbying for federal and state aid and finance and special legislation making homosexuals 1st class citizens and hetrosexuals 2nd class citizens which is what affirmative action and special protection fundamentally does from a socialogical perspective. The essential part of that lobbying is fueling the myth that homosexuals are being oppressed which is a blatant lie as the special protection laws empirically show, and their favorite enemy are christian institutions and norms.
I really can't bring myself to accept homosexuality as a viable social status for some organizations. It divides Homosexuals from Hetrosexuals who might otherwise cooperate fluently. For example homosexual conservative organizations are just harmfull and should integrate into normal conservative organizations, leaving some spokesperson front the image of homosexual conservatism with integrity for example.
Robbie
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All my guy friends that are gay are great dancers... some of them are kind of pervs... but then again... most of my guy friends even that aren't gay are pervs... haha... thank God for Jesus who paid the price for our imperfections... all glory to Him...
Love ya fire7... there's no difference between me and you... we both are saved by same cross... and without that cross we're both condemned by the same law...
peace
Love ya fire7... there's no difference between me and you... we both are saved by same cross... and without that cross we're both condemned by the same law...
peace
What does it mean to be one.
What about a hermaphrodite.
What about someone who is a devout Christian and is excellent in depth knowledge educated in Christ and very holy person but not a sexual deviation in any way but they come across as being very effeminate.
I don't know. But I know that those who are homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
@ duckybill Post 369 So you are saying that fire7 can not be saved. Jesus did not die for him. He died for you but not for fire 7?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Not at all. But those who give up being homosexuals to be Christians are no longer homosexuals.
Proverbs 28:13 (NKJV)
13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.
1 Corinthians 6:2 (NKJV)
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Of course Paul was talking about settling disputes among Christians - not giving an account of what was actually going to happen after death. Even if we are going to judge the world, we will be doing so in a Redeemed state.
Also, according to Rev. 6 only the Lamb is worthy to open the seal of Judgment upon the earth:
[sup]1[/sup] Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. [sup]2[/sup] And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” [sup]3[/sup] But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. [sup]4[/sup] I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. [sup]5[/sup] Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
So should we believe an actual accord found in Revelation or a offhanded remark by Paul to make a larger point?
I am concerned with how the consept of how people perceive what one is, maybe a scale from one to ten ? at the ok side it starts of at one and 10 is people like sick preditors and rapist.
So i think that when people talk about these people the perceptions could be any where and that can causes the problem of understanding. as one may think another is supporting poofter rapist in jail as ok.
I worked with an old ex prison guard and he thought noting of it at all that rape was going on, as he said it happens every day were he was.
So i think that when people talk about these people the perceptions could be any where and that can causes the problem of understanding. as one may think another is supporting poofter rapist in jail as ok.
I worked with an old ex prison guard and he thought noting of it at all that rape was going on, as he said it happens every day were he was.
FHII
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you serious? Revelation 6 says only the Lamb is worthy to open the seal of Judgement? I don't find this correct on two accounts.... It isn't Rev 6 (rather chapter 5) and there is no seal of Judgment.
And an offhanded remark by Paul? Ok... You may be saying that it was offhanded because Paul wanted to tell the Corinthians they should be able to judge themselves... But it was not an offhanded remark. But I think I can point to a verse in revelations as well as elsewhere (specifically the book of Jude, which quotes Enoch) that talks about the Saints judging the world.
Look, there's a lot in the book of Revelations that is difficult to understand. I ain't got it all down yet, but to say the seals are those of judgment and point to that and compare it to Paul's "offhanded remark" is a bit of a stretch.
Not even close Aspen.
1 Corinthians 6:2 (NKJV)
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?
FHII
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Right Duckybill... This is pretty much key.... In Matthew 7:1 we hear "Judge not, that ye be not judged". Yet 1 Cor 6:2 says what it says. Furthermore, looking at Paul... Well, he had disputes with John and his long time buddy Barnabus, Peter and James the Lord's half brother. Paul didn't hardly get along with any of them! Yet, he never discounted them as brothers. Contentions were so hot between him and John and Barnabus that he couldn't continue with them (or they with him), and he withstood Peter to the face in front of all. And James, he met with him and from what I see enjoyed his company and listened, but didn't really take him seriously.
Did Paul judge them? Don't know... actually I don't think so. He never spoke bad about any of them, except that the council at Jerusalem added nothing to him, and they "seemed" to be pillars. Did Peter judge Paul when he said, "Well, some of the things Paul says are hard to understand!" That's not really a judgement. Peter had a hard time grasping this grace thing, and even God had a hard time convincing him of it... (Don't think I'm right? How many times did God send him that vision before he was to preach to Cornelius and the Italian Band?)
I am full aware of the fact that Paul wasn't in attendance at the time, by the way....
It seems to me (and this is my educated opinion) that Jesus was telling the Apostles not to judge each other's methods. He wasn't speaking to the multitudes, but to the disciples. Check Matthew 5:1 to see if I'm correct. Jesus went up into the mountains and spoke to the disciples. In other words, Peter is not to judge Andrew. and Simon is not to judge Matthew, and James is not to judge Thomas.... Especially on earthly matters. They were all going to die martyr's deaths except perhaps John. And of course, Judas.... But Paul took his place.
The Apostles never contradicted each other's writings. It was always in one accord. That's why I believe the Bible. 12 men agreeing on one thing! Peter didn't understand Paul all that well, and Paul had contentions with John, but they never really judged each other. In honesty... If we on this board were in a room together for any length of time and you, Duckybill, or Apsen or Prentis, came to me and got in my face like Paul did Peter, what would happen? Chances are I'd listen and work it out.... That isn't judging. That's debating and discussing. That's what Paul did with Peter.
But the Saints (that's you and I) are going to judge the world. Matthew 7 says don't judge each other, 1 Cor 6 says keep each other in check, and also says we are going to judge the world as backed up in Revelations 7 and 19 as well as Jude.
Saints of God won't be at the white throne judgement. Where will they be then? Are they going to be judged? Sure, they are.... But not at the white throne judgement!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well, first of all, it is the Book of Revelation. Second, you are correct - I mistakenly referred to the 6th chapter instead of the 5th chapter of the Book of Revelation. Do you deny that the seals are judgment on the Earth?
Revelation 6
The Seals
[sup]1[/sup] I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” [sup]2[/sup] I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
[sup]3[/sup] When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” [sup]4[/sup]Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.
[sup]5[/sup] When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. [sup]6[/sup] Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[sup][a][/sup] of wheat for a day’s wages,[sup][b][/sup] and six pounds[sup][c][/sup] of barley for a day’s wages,[sup][d][/sup] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
[sup]7[/sup] When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” [sup]8[/sup] I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
[sup]9[/sup] When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. [sup]10[/sup] They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” [sup]11[/sup] Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[sup][e][/sup] were killed just as they had been.
[sup]12[/sup] I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, [sup]13[/sup] and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. [sup]14[/sup] The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
[sup]15[/sup] Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. [sup]16[/sup] They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[sup][f][/sup] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [sup]17[/sup] For the great day of their[sup][g][/sup] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I am going to stick my neck on the line here because it doesn't help to base things on what is not true and bearing in mind it is the truth that sets us free and bearing in mind that truth and love are synonomous with each other.
No one is born a homosexual. No one is born a heterosexual. When we are born we are asexual. All that matters to a baby is love, warmth, food, being hugged and sleep. Ask a baby to explain sexuality to you and he/she will probably blow a raspberry at you as they tend not to be worried about things that are not important to them. Now, if you don't feed them, they will soon let you know in no uncertain terms.
What we are born with or in is God's image. What I am led to understand is that in Hebrew, God is both male and female. Elohim, one of God's Hebrew names is female. Adoni is male. Nowhere is there any understanding of God being male and male or female and female.
At the same time God when he created Adam in his image, created Eve out of Adam. She was not a seperate creation like Adam was. That means that Adam and Eve were two parts of a whole. They were a natural fit. One has only to look at the male/female body to realise that. One has only to realise that men are rational and women are not to realise that. (did I say something wrong?). Well, that is what my wife tells me when she says something and I say that it is not rational. Her reply is "What do you expect. I am a woman." Nuf zed.
That means the total revelation of scripture is male/female, man/wife. I don't find anywhere in scripture that God has changed his mind about that and has decided to create homosexuals as a representation of his image. So, where did it all go wrong?
As we know, since satan was thrown out of heaven he has been trying to get back at God anyway he can. Of late he has hit onto the idea that if he can break up the family he will have done a good job because the family is the ultimate expression of God and it is the basis of all successful societies.
What he has managed to do is spread lies of humungous proportions which is not surprising as he is the father of lies. Having put the boot into the family, he has told us that the family is no longer necessary, that anyone can be a successful parent, that boys don't need fathers, and that the child will not be affected by any parental computation. Whatever it is, the child will grow up happy, healthy and well adjusted.
Now, if you believe that, you will believe anything. You will believe that you are born homosexual not in the image of God; you will believe that you can successfully bring up children with your boyfriend; you will believe that the destruction of the family is not going to have a negative effect; you will believe that you can make up the rules as you go along; you will believe that it is OK to murder a million babies in the womb each year; you will believe that there are no such thing as norms; you will believe that marriage is all about two people of any gender being in love; you will believe that God's word is there for private interpretation to back up your abberation; you will believe that people who commit crime are not to blame it was their bad childhood; you will believe that there is nothing wrong with the pornification of society.
Which brings me back to the original point. A person adopts a homosexual way of life because of an emotionally defective childhood that has left them not knowing who they are and who to trust. The outcome is a sense of rejection which sends them on a journey to find acceptance. For the homosexual, that occurs in the arms of another man and where sex equals acceptance.
Because this is a lie of satan we know that what they are trying to achieve never happens. That is why in so called committed homosexual relationships, weekly adultery takes place. How do I know? They told me. That is why the average length of a committed homosexual relationship is 18 months. How do I know? I have read research produced by homosexuals themselves.
A lie always produces heartache for the person being lied to. Those that choose to ignore the tried and tested which means God's revealed will, are deceived and unfortunately will reap in their bodies what they sow. You will find very few homosexuals that are happy because in the main they are believing a lie. Satan has totally robbed them of the God given joy of a lifetime mate and children. That is why they are clamouring for SSM and the right to adopt children. They think that will bring happiness. It won't. It will only compound the sadness they already experience.
Homosexuals are second rate citizens because they have chosen a second rate way of life foisted on them by satan. Like everyone else who has done the same, i.e. the prostitute, the criminal, the adulterer, the fornicator, the kleptomaniac, the con merchant, they all are deceived and need to know the truth. That Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. To tell them that is love, not judgment.
Like all sinners, we need to be gracious to them the same as God was gracious to us bearing in mind that it was whilst we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. The only people you can't be gracious to are those who have made it clear they don't want to know and they won't let you be gracious.
They are not your problem or your responsibility. They will have to deal with their Maker and accept the consequences of their rebellion.
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