Homosexuality

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

Why is it called 'playing word games' when a word study reveals results that are not favorable? If the Greek word was translated 'same-sex partners who want to engage in sexual relations and get married' I can guarantee it would be broadcasted all over this board.

The point being what the scripture describes, men who abandon the natural use of women and committ indecent acts with men covers "'same-sex partners who want to engage in sexual relations and get married'. They are still men who abandon the natural use of women and commit indecent acts with men.
The lgbt factions claim that this isnt the ‘loving faithful partnership’ in the modern sense, but of course it is still men with men abandoning the natural use of women. Have they lost their minds?

I am defending nothing.

Well you are.

I am telling you what the greek is telling us, which is different than the homosexual relationship we see today.

No it is not a homosexual relationship today is two people of the same sex, that is still men with men instead of women.

but is it wrong for nonbelievers? Absolutely not.

According to non-believers it is not, but according to God who made them and wishes to save them from such sin that leads to death, absolutely yes.

They need Jesus to change their desires and their hearts - we can do nothing for them except serve as an example.

So it is wrong for them if they need Jesus to change their hearts and thinking. Can one force them, no, but is it wrong, absolutely.

Just seen a clip from teh TV debate 'The Big Questions' where a woman points out that Peter Tatchel has a mother, hence a homosexual relationship is wrong. She recieved a round of applause, and why not its a anatomical fact. Richard Dawkins responded that that she shouldne be allowed to give her opinion because its not based on fact.
So here we have a supposedly clever sceintist who doesnt think Peter Tatchel was born to a mother and does not think that people who recognise reality should be allowed to have opinions because they are not reality.
Now Peter Tatchel's response was gracious enough, he disagreed but said she was entitled to such a view.

This isnt about homosexuals its about some who react against God who are only one simple piece of reality away from the truth but yet not able to see it. I also recently heard Stephen Fry talk favourably of Greek gods such as of wind and fire which reminded him of nature and then of a God who was malicious an caused bone cancer. So does fire not burn and cause death? Does wind not cause tornado destruction and death?
Why is it God who created all things get blamed and gods who created things that can destroy get praised?

I heard Tim Minchin mock creation by suggesting that creationists might deny gravity? I can see gravity in action realtime, I am not aware that Tim Minchin has seen fish evolve into tetrapods realtime.

The OP poll is interesting. What if we had a poll question is the earth flat and one person voted it was, would that cause us to doubt?

 

[Groundzero]

The OP poll is interesting. What if we had a poll question is the earth flat and one person voted it was, would that cause us to doubt?

Lol. Even then, God never worries about minority/majority. In Elijah's day there was only about 700 who followed him. The majority's opinion won't sway God's. Every person one earth bar one could support homosexuality, and it still wouldn't change God's view on it.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Well said Groundzero, Agreed, so what is the point of the poll ;-) ?

 

[Groundzero]

Well said Groundzero, Agreed, so what is the point of the poll ;-) ?

Hmmmmm, good point. I guess it shows people's opinion, though in this case I'd think it's pretty black and white . . . . oops!! take cover now!!!! I'm sorry. For political answer: "Well, it shows varying opinion throughout the populace and helps us determine which choice will get us the most support."

 

[dragonfly]

Further to my post on p26, here are my other thoughts and comments.

Firstly, I don't think the term, 'homosexual' adds anything but strife to the discussion. I don't believe anyone is born in the condition we have come to call 'homosexuality', even if it is all the person has known by the time they are old enough to look back on the route they have had through relationships - whether wanted or unwanted - at whatever age. It is an unhelpful label, because God made everyone in His own image, and a man was designed to become one with a woman. Only sin has wrecked this plan - partially. Within every human there is a drive and a desire for peaceful normality, and it's this awareness that something is wrong (when it is wrong), which sustains unhappiness, until the need is met.

If you're reading this, and you think you're 'a homosexual', please try to understand that way you feel, no matter how young you were when you began to think the way you do, is not God's first plan for your life. His plan for your life has been thwarted by other agencies, some human no doubt, and some spiritual, which gradually took over, or, will take over if you let them. This is very clear from the Greek in Romans 1. The temptation to behave in a 'homosexual' way, comes first of all from outside of you. (In fact, 'gender' is cultivated. A person can be cultivated into the gender appropriate to their body, or, the cultivation can lead to confusion and conflict felt both by body and gender.)

There are many reasons people may succumb to temptations, trying to make peace with what is otherwise an ongoing torment, but I say again: this is neither God's first, nor His best, plan for your life. And, you can be fully restored to heterosexual inclinations if you will give your life to God to let Him change you - to deliver you from the spiritual components, and to heal you from all the distortion of His image which has occurred. One of the meanest things about homosexual urges, is that they settle deep by the place which should give you profound integrity as a person, both naturally and spiritually. God wants to restore that integrity to you, in all its fullness. Jesus Christ broke the power of sin when He was on the cross, and you can access this liberty through Him, just as all believers have to do, to gain victory over the sins which brought them to Him. God will know how your heart is set, and this will determine how He supports you as you seek to escape from sinful practices - or, not. Here is the key: you need to keep turning to God, and retaining Him and His truth, in the forefront of your mind. Or this may happen: Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind. The chapter concludes under the threat of God's wrath, but originally there were no chapter divisions, and the writer goes on to ask a rhetorical question: Romans 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? See? There is definitely hope to gain, or return to, a life which genuinely pleases God. Indeed, Paul the apostle mentions some who have done just that, in his first letter to Corinth, chapter 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

I have heard in person, and have heard of many others, who testify to God's working in their lives this way. There is a time factor in establishing a new lifestyle and new attitudes where they are needed, but God is faithful if you will hope in Him and obey Him and don't give up. He will keep you and strengthen you. Don't be beguiled by compromise. There is a far better place than that, if you take the Holy Spirit's help, and like the rest of us, engage with the renewing of your mind.

God may give you the gift of celibacy. If He does, you will know, and you will have peace about it.

Matthew 19:11 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].

Lastly, many a heterosexual has had to give up a wrong human relationship in order to be in right relationship with God. Whatever kind of healing is required, the Lord is well able to bring it into your experience, at your request.

Mark 11:22 '... Hold on to the faithfulness of God'.

 

[Groundzero]

Lastly, many a heterosexual has had to give up a wrong human relationship in order to be in right relationship with God. Whatever kind of healing is required, the Lord is well able to bring it into your experience, at your request.

Mark 11:22 '... Hold on to the faithfulness of God'.

So true. I get sick of hearing homosexuals whine, "I was born this way." Cause I have a tendancy to want to go and play around with girls, but that wasn't what God wants me to do either. So big deal. As one preacher I heard said, "I don't care how hard it is. You have to cut it off." Doesn't matter really if you think you were born that way. If you want to believe that it does happen, fine. That's a problem you have to deal with. Just like straight-men/women have to deal with their own sexual drives.

 

[brightmorningstar]

dragonfly and Groundzero,
Great point.
But the point I want to make is from that TV debate clip I saw.
Firstly, Richard Dawkins is a primary spokesperson for atheism, and as a scientist. His main point was that views against homosexuality should not be allowed as they weren’t backed by evidence. And this followed his objection to the point by the Christian lady that Peter Tatchell has a mother, which he called bigoted.
How ridiculous can one get? Even the APA has made the statement there is no consensus of scientific agreement that anyone is born gay, and most 12 year olds can tell us people are conceived through sexual intercourse between a man and a woman.
What we have here is a scientists calling scientific reality, bigotry. People’s eyes and minds are blinded to reality.

The key here is that the Times columnist Matthew Parris has affirmed scientific evidence is not so clear or decided despite the claims of the gay lobbies, and Matthew Parris identifies as homosexual.
The issue is not about homosexuals. Some homosexuals such as Matthew Parris are in touch with the reality of the world around them, some others such as Dawkins have not only lost touch with reality, they are determined to silence reality where it doesn’t suit their own thinking, by calling it bigotry and hate.
One cant show evidence to people looking for evidence, if they are blind to it.

But this isnt just with certain atheists. I am seeing the same thing now happen on another Christian forum that I have seen at least half a dozen times in the last few years. Because the forum gets swamped by debate on the issue a moratorium is passed by the moderators on the topic. Yet this of course aids the false teaching by allow the cancer to grow unchecked. What also happens is the 'liberals' start adding the odd remark and claim on the topic and any challenge gets blocked. There are dark force at work.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

All of the pain and suffering in the world, all the murder, rape, torture, hate, pain, and torment,,,,,,,,, and queers are the problem? Deal with the real hurt, then confront imorality! Time is short! It's almost over!

Children are being beaten, starved, neglegeted, molested, murdered, and all sorts of crazy horrid hellish torment, and people want to talk about homosexuality?

The world will do what it does, and concentint adults are no matter when there is true sorrow.

We spend all this time debating queers, and overlook the other problems in this world.

Your neighbors are swingers, gay, with bastard children, unwed, etc......

Why is homosexuality such a debate?

There's bigger fish to fry people! Solve the dangerous problems first! Seriously!

 

[brightmorningstar]

WhiteNuckle,
There was pain and suffering murder, rape, torture, hate, pain, and torment in the world before this homosexuality issue and will be after it.

Deal with the real hurt, then confront imorality! Time is short! It's almost over!

This is typical liberal rubbish. The churches don’t spend much time and money on the homosexuality issue anyway, they do on caring for the poor. But why save a person from starvation and let another fail to get into the Kingdom because of homosexuality?
All you are saying is spend time saving people in this life and let them miss out on eternal life.

There's bigger fish to fry people!

Its all big fish.

 

[romans7]

When we ask if something is a sin, we are really saying, is God like this; would God do this; is this part of his nature. So along with does God steal. murder or lie, we would have to ask if he is rude lewd and crude.

 

[aspen]

WhiteNuckle,
There was pain and suffering murder, rape, torture, hate, pain, and torment in the world before this homosexuality issue and will be after it.

This is typical liberal rubbish. The churches don’t spend much time and money on the homosexuality issue anyway, they do on caring for the poor. But why save a person from starvation and let another fail to get into the Kingdom because of homosexuality?
All you are saying is spend time saving people in this life and let them miss out on eternal life.
Its all big fish.

Show me a homosexual that doesn't know that some Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin and I will be the first to tell them. We do not save anyone - we cannot even convince anyone of the truth - only God can. Information cannot even stop an addict from killing themselves with their drug of choice - even when they are so sick that death and pain are eminent.

 

[dragonfly]

Show me a homosexual that doesn't know that some Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin and I will be the first to tell them.

People have done time in prison in Canada for expressing the Bible's view publicly (in church), so you'll have to be brave.

Francis Schaeffer said that if he had only one hour with a man, he would spend 45 minutes explaining the wrath of God to them, and 15 on God's alternative, namely, the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm beginning to think he was on to something there, the more I here of people who think they are Christians because of their church attendance, but they don't believe either in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, nor that they themselves will be resurrected (to judgement). There are many books putting forward alternative interpretations, whose authors have found endless ways to undermine God's word to mankind. The reason that dealing with sin actually matters, is that there will be a price to pay one day, if Jesus Christ can't find enough evidence in our testimony to acknowledge us to the Father in heaven.

 

[Rach1370]

Show me a homosexual that doesn't know that some Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin and I will be the first to tell them. We do not save anyone - we cannot even convince anyone of the truth - only God can. Information cannot even stop an addict from killing themselves with their drug of choice - even when they are so sick that death and pain are eminent.

Can I just point something out? It's true that pretty much every gay person 'knows what Christians think' on the issue. But do they really? Do they know what it is the bible is teaching, what Jesus is offering, or do they only know what people like the Westboro Baptist church jerks 'think'. I say 'think', because their kind of hatred does not come from scripture.
My point is this...so often people...any kind of sinner, really, doesn't have a clue what Christianity is really about. They have visions of comb overs, sandles and long socks, brim fire and wrath; that we live stuck up holier than thou lives and like pointing out how much better we are than other people! But that is so not true! Homosexual people may have it right in that we believe their lifestyle is a sin, but they are missing out on everything else that makes it wonderful, not hypocritical! We all sin! We 'Christians' may not sin in the same way, but we still sin. The true good news is that we do not need to be enslaved to sin any more...that we desperately want to invite others into the freedom, joy and love that comes with Christ.
So, you may not want to 'go over the same old same old' that homosexuals have heard before...but perhaps you need to give consideration to the fact that they don't have all the correct information...that could be an incredible conversation!

 

[aspen]

Can I just point something out? It's true that pretty much every gay person 'knows what Christians think' on the issue. But do they really? Do they know what it is the bible is teaching, what Jesus is offering, or do they only know what people like the Westboro Baptist church jerks 'think'. I say 'think', because their kind of hatred does not come from scripture.
My point is this...so often people...any kind of sinner, really, doesn't have a clue what Christianity is really about. They have visions of comb overs, sandles and long socks, brim fire and wrath; that we live stuck up holier than thou lives and like pointing out how much better we are than other people! But that is so not true! Homosexual people may have it right in that we believe their lifestyle is a sin, but they are missing out on everything else that makes it wonderful, not hypocritical! We all sin! We 'Christians' may not sin in the same way, but we still sin. The true good news is that we do not need to be enslaved to sin any more...that we desperately want to invite others into the freedom, joy and love that comes with Christ.
So, you may not want to 'go over the same old same old' that homosexuals have heard before...but perhaps you need to give consideration to the fact that they don't have all the correct information...that could be an incredible conversation!

It could be an incredible conversation - I agree. My issue is the four-spiritual-law track witnessing approach towards converting homosexuals. Yelling, protesting, legislating - keeping them as far away from yourself as possible while condemning their private behavior. I also think it pushes people away when you have a relationship with a friend who reminds you of their disapproval all the time. I have a friend who fits this description and you know, it would have been nice if I could have relied on him when I was separating and going through my divorce (we have been friends for 20 years), but I know he would be unable to listen to me, support me, or even offer any other advice besides, 'God wants you and your wife to reconcile'. See my point? I already know that - but it is not possible. My ex-wife and I had to take the 'plan B' option. The fact is, my ex is much more supportive than my friend would be if he knew. It is a situation where the ideal no longer applies to reality. I think homosexuals face a similar situation - and for nonbelieving homosexuals, I see no advantage to living a celibate life.

Finally, it is my experience that the most vocal, homosexual advocates have been rejected by the church - their anger is based on personal experience.

Seriously - look at the hostility I have invoked on this board - and I am not gay or an advocate for Christian acceptance of homosexual behavior in the church! Just imagine what homosexuals raised in the church and rejected by it have to go through.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

Show me a homosexual that doesn't know that some Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin and I will be the first to tell them.

All Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin, if they don’t they aren’t Christian but false teaching and apostate.
There are people who identify as homosexual who deny that the word of God condemns and excludes homosexuality, now can you say they do know?

Yelling,

The church is not generally yelling, the objections to same sex relations are being put carefully and gently and the yeling is coming from some lgbt and non-lgbt factions in the form of 'bigot' and the likes of Westboro.

protesting, legislating

Well thats legal, why should you want to back down on this issue just so some people are not offended by this issue?

- keeping them as far away from yourself as possible while condemning their private behavior.

You keep using this argument, who si keeping ''them' as far away as possible? Not me, I have been to civil partnerships of friedns, not the Anglican church which wishes to affirm all those who experience same sex relations that recognse they are error are fully welcome and fully inlcuded in the church. Who aspen2?
And yes condemn the relationships of course, society condemns various relationships, why would you want to exclude homsoexual ones from being condemned?

Finally, it is my experience that the most vocal, homosexual advocates have been rejected by the church - their anger is based on personal experience.

What? Of course, would a democrat be popular in the republican party whilst trying to convince them to change to vote democrat? Homosexual advocates are rejected because they are homosexual advocates rather than believers. the homosexuals who are believers are accepted.

 

[Rach1370]

It isn't an easy topic to broach...but no sin is. I feel that as Christians, no matter how loving and understanding we need to be, we still must hold steady on what is sin and what is not. The problem comes when, as you say, people take what is clearly sin, and act out against the sinner like they themselves are not prone to sin...maybe different sin, but sin all the same. It's pride, pure and simple, and then they wonder why what they say is not taken as wonderful and freeing. The message of Jesus is freeing. Sure it's convicting, but it's also 'good news'! Good news usually makes us feel good.
But just because the issue of sin, and homosexual sin in particular, has been handled by so many so woefully, doesn't mean we step away from them and leave them to it...that would be leaving them to their sin and destruction! Not loving at all! It's because we love people that we must point out that sin leads to death. It seduces with promises of happiness, but the only true happiness in life, the only real contentment, is a relationship with Jesus. Yes we must point out that something is a sin, and that it's an offence to God...we can't get around it...it's just biblical truth. But we soften this blow with to complete forgiveness and redemption that comes with Jesus...which is so much better than any temporary pleasure we might get here in this life. We see this loving and forgiveness so much in scripture. How many times did Israel mess up??! Too many to count. And each time God calls them on their sin, but then forgives them for it and blesses them. How can we be any less loving...even while we name the sin and invite them to a better way?
What being sinners ourselves should show us, is how it is possible for anyone to come to Jesus, to be saved by Him. It should stop us from being uptight, disapproving jerks. It should allow us to look with a certain understanding on the lost and blind. It should keep us steady, even as we know something to be sin, to tell others about it in a loving way, an encouraging way.

 

[Strat]

It isn't an easy topic to broach...but no sin is. I feel that as Christians, no matter how loving and understanding we need to be, we still must hold steady on what is sin and what is not. The problem comes when, as you say, people take what is clearly sin, and act out against the sinner like they themselves are not prone to sin...maybe different sin, but sin all the same. It's pride, pure and simple, and then they wonder why what they say is not taken as wonderful and freeing. The message of Jesus is freeing. Sure it's convicting, but it's also 'good news'! Good news usually makes us feel good.
But just because the issue of sin, and homosexual sin in particular, has been handled by so many so woefully, doesn't mean we step away from them and leave them to it...that would be leaving them to their sin and destruction! Not loving at all! It's because we love people that we must point out that sin leads to death. It seduces with promises of happiness, but the only true happiness in life, the only real contentment, is a relationship with Jesus. Yes we must point out that something is a sin, and that it's an offence to God...we can't get around it...it's just biblical truth. But we soften this blow with to complete forgiveness and redemption that comes with Jesus...which is so much better than any temporary pleasure we might get here in this life. We see this loving and forgiveness so much in scripture. How many times did Israel mess up??! Too many to count. And each time God calls them on their sin, but then forgives them for it and blesses them. How can we be any less loving...even while we name the sin and invite them to a better way?
What being sinners ourselves should show us, is how it is possible for anyone to come to Jesus, to be saved by Him. It should stop us from being uptight, disapproving jerks. It should allow us to look with a certain understanding on the lost and blind. It should keep us steady, even as we know something to be sin, to tell others about it in a loving way, an encouraging way.

The abuse of Homosexuals is for the most part a myth,homosexuality is fairly well accepted in America,a cursory glance at the statistics will indicate that they are actually doing quite well in the areas of finance and carreer,this myth would have us beleive that Homosexuals are being beaten in the streets,that church members are coming out of their churches on Sunday morning to throw rocks at Homosexuals as they pass....that the life of a Homosexual is one of constant persecution and abuse...apart from the occasional media driven sensation of a pastor or a single church in a nation of some 300 million people saying anything at all against it they have little to chew on,but with the attitude of zero tolerance for dissent a little is enough for them and this myth is carried on.They use the same guilty until proven innocent tactics that the are in used in regard to race,by virtue of being white one must prove they are not a racist by total submission to all demands of non whites...likewise christians,in order to prove they are not "hate filled Homophobes" must submit to all demands...nice racket isn't it.

The other myth that "christian" Homosexual apoligist would have us belive is that the church is somehow treating this sin as being different from other sins,i guess if one looks at the evidence they have a point since we have churches that accept Homosexuality as being normal and where they ordain priest and pastors...yeah i guess they are treating this sin a little differently.I have seen churches list their ministries and include a"special" ministry to Homosexuals....hmm special....yeah that usually means different...when we have churches who openely welcome liars,theives,adulterers ect ect and tell them that they are normal and offers them postions of leadership then i guess we will have arrived at the place where all sins are treated the same....ah yes,somebody will say that those sins are there anyway...yes they are,all churches have people and therefore sin in them....but what does that church support and give refuge to....openly ?

The zero tolerance we have for questioning Homosexuality expreses itself in many ways,in the secular world it involves penalties such as loosing one's job,reputation and in some countries one can go to jail...when considering this one has to chuckle at the myth of Homosexual abuse...in the "christian" world it almost always involves subjecting logic,reason and morality to emotion....the truth of anything is determined by how the one hearing it feels about it which of course gives the Homosexuals and their supporters the ultimate advantage....they choose the words "tone" and everything else about the exchange....they determine what is "loving" and what is not....they say they are "gay" and corrupt the meaning of that word...they are Homosexuals and when one does not submit to their every demand in terms of words they pay the price,they of course as in the above case can call us "jerks" or anything else their sense of decorum such as it is will allow,since they have given themselves the moral imperative and the right to do so....zero tolerance from those who claim to seek tolerance is the great paradox of our time.....i now await the accusations of unloving,unkind words that will follow.I have seen other things discussed here in regard to their sinfulness....not a single one of them approaching 27 pages....now thats special.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Strat,

Every point you've made is valid, because democracy gives everyone the right to have their point of view heard. This is the inherent flaw in democracy. It favours the word of the people over the word of God. It harks all the way back to Saul, who was entirely preoccupied with public opinion about himself.

That said, there are countries which claim to be democratic, but politics is a brutal war fought with gangs and machettes, bullets and bloodshed of all kinds. Bridges are pulled down to prevent opposing candidates their opportunity to canvas freely, and the whole economy, such as it is suffers - because we in the west imagine democracy is better than other forms of government. Even without the church's presence, homosexuals are disapproved and dare not reveal themselves. Those who are suspected (let alone proved) may well face physical danger on a daily basis - if not death.

No doubt this is why Jesus, John and Paul exhorted us to love one another first, while not neglecting to call sinners to repentance.

 

[aspen]

BMS
All Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin, if they don’t they aren’t Christian but false teaching and apostate.
There are people who identify as homosexual who deny that the word of God condemns and excludes homosexuality, now can you say they do know?

Umm.....you are making my point - all homosexuals know that some Christian churches teach that homosexuality is a sin. So why do we think that telling them the same information they have heard a million times is going to change their behavior?

Well thats legal, why should you want to back down on this issue just so some people are not offended by this issue?

How you ever heard the song 'hole in the bucket'? I've answered this question so many times - it has nothing to do with offending anyone - my objection is imposing God's laws on nonbelievers through legislation.

You keep using this argument, who si keeping ''them' as far away as possible? Not me, I have been to civil partnerships of friedns, not the Anglican church which wishes to affirm all those who experience same sex relations that recognse they are error are fully welcome and fully inlcuded in the church. Who aspen2?

Actually, I think this is the first time I have mentioned this. Our language is what pushes them away. It is not even the message so much as the language we use and the presentation of the message.

And yes condemn the relationships of course, society condemns various relationships, why would you want to exclude homsoexual ones from being condemned?

Because homosexuality is a relationship between consenting adults that does not present an immediate threat to society.

What? Of course, would a democrat be popular in the republican party whilst trying to convince them to change to vote democrat? Homosexual advocates are rejected because they are homosexual advocates rather than believers. the homosexuals who are believers are accepted.

Why do you keep making our disagreement about accepting homosexuality into the church? I am talking about non-believing homosexuals outside the church.

Also - I believe in free speech - people should not be legally prosecuted for making comments against homosexuality.




http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.T-YsyLUQuA8

Interesting.....

I guess a certain person who is homophobic on this board can add another person to his list of gay activists:


David Blankenhorn, founder of Institute for American Values: 'Whatever one’s definition of marriage, legally recognizing gay and lesbian couples and their children is a victory for basic fairness,' AND “the time has come for me to accept gay marriage and emphasize the good that it can do.”

And just think - he is going farther in his support than I am

 

[Strat]

Flies always gather around..... well...you know.