Homosexuality

[SilenceInMotion]

I know it is not the subject of the thread but as you raised it I thought I would investigate scripture as to what it says about saints. From the following verses there is no such thing as a greater or lesser saint or believer All the references to saints were to the everyday people of the fellowship as the ones you call saints did not exist when it was written so what you are saying is an invention of the Catholic Church, not scripture.

Act 9:13 And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many bad things he did to Your saints in Jerusalem.

Act 9:32 And it happened, passing through all, Peter also came down to the saints dwelling in Lydda.

Act 26:10 which I also did in Jerusalem, I also shut up many of the saints in prisons, receiving authority from the chief priests; and they being put to death, I cast a vote.

Rom 1:7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called-out saints: Grace and peace
to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 12:13 imparting to the needs of the saints, pursuing hospitality.

Rom 15:25 But now I am going to Jerusalem, doing service to the saints.

Rom 16:15 Greet Philologus and Julias, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints with them.

1Co 1:2 to the assembly of God which is in Corinth, those having been sanctified in Christ
Jesus, called-out saints, with all those calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours:

1Co 14:33 For God is not of confusion, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Timothy the brother, to the assembly of God being in Corinth, with all the saints being in all Achaia,

2Co 13:13 All the saints greet you.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the saints
being in Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:15 Because of this, hearing of your faith in the Lord Jesus and love toward all the saints,

Eph 5:3 But let not fornication, and all uncleanness, or greediness, be named among you, as is fitting for saints;

Php 1:1 Paul, and Timothy, slaves of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the overseers and ministers:

None of those verses imply that every believer is a saint. They tell what is fitting of a saint, which 99% of Christians fail at.

Matthew 5:19
He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Protestant perception is simply wrong. Quite frankly, I find the notion that all believers are saints is extremely arrogant and redundant. Most canonized saints are martyrs. They follow through all the way.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi SIM,

The Protestant perception is simply wrong. Quite frankly, I find the notion that all believers are saints is extremely arrogant and redundant.

Let me help you out with this thought. If you revise your definition of 'saint' until it agrees with the Bible's definition of 'saint', then you'll find it is God who calls ordinary believers saints. He does that because saint is the correct word to describe someone who has set themselves apart to God. That is what makes them 'sanctified'. Of course there is usually a short sequence of experiences and understandings which flow together in the process of a non-believer becoming a believer, but from the moment those conditions are fulfilled, an alternative name for a believer is a 'saint'.

For the saint to accept the appellation God has given them, is hardly 'arrogant and redundant'. I guess your forebears called you something when you were born, and you've been known by that name every since. Basically, it's the same general principle.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I find the above most insulting, especially coming from someone who knows NOTHING about my personal life. I have no other agenda, no home page, no so-called 'pink mafia' affiliations, nothing other than my take on the subject of homosexuality and Christianity and my participation on this and one other Christian Debate Forum. While it is true that this particular topic has become my main interest in past months - as it has among many Christians - I've participated in various other Christian topics over the years, particularly when I was a practicing member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The above remarks from JB_Reformed Baptist are reminiscent of the centures old folk tale of Henny Penny (or Chicken Little). This is, as said, a folk tale with a moral in the form of a cumulative tale about a chicken who believes that the world is coming to an end. You see, an acorn falls on his head and he believes that the sky has begun to fall on him. The phrase, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" features predominantly in the story, and has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster of some description is imminent. This is the kind of thing that causes paranoia and mass hysteria and, at the very least, uneasiness and suspicion in the minds of the gullible. And, who are among the most gullible? So as not to offend I'll let the individual answer that question themselves. The fable's central phrase, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" has been applied to people accused of being unreasonably afraid of 'something' that they can't quite put their finger on, or those trying to incite an unreasonable fear of that same mysterious 'something' in those around them. Such is the case with homosexuality and the false notion that the sky will eventually fall on us and life as we know it will come to an end because Adam and Steve who live down the street are sharing an intimate relationship together. The sky may fall, figuratively speaking, but it will not be due to homosexuality. It will be due to unbridled stupidity!

Quit the fibbing. I've debated with your types on CP(Christian Post). So I know your arguments inside and out. You have abreast yourself with the typical pro-homo agenda. All anyone has to do is research what I say and they will find it true. You can ONLY deceive the simple and debased.

keep speaking, your words are providing a foot print of what you're really about. Same tactics and nothing new. Hyperbole, lies, emotional appeal, hate & disinformation. B) :lol:

Gay marriage will destabilise family life, sociologist warns
Gay marriage will further destabilise marriage and family life in Britain, a leading sociologist has warned Parliament.

Dr Patricia Morgan told the House of Commons that there was no evidence for the Coalition's claim that gay marriage “would bolster the institution" Photo: ALAMY




Dr Patricia Morgan told the House of Commons that same-sex marriage reinforced





the idea that marriage is irrelevant to parenthood.

This was the principle factor, she said, that has caused the collapse in
marriage rates between heterosexuals in countries where gay marriage had
been introduced - as well as a sharp rise in cohabitation and the numbers of
children born out of wedlock.

She said there was no evidence whatsoever to prove the Coalition Government’s
assertions that gay marriage would bolster the institution.


She made her claims in a 22-page paper submitted at the Committee Stage of the
Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill.


It contained a detailed analysis of marriage trends in Sweden, Norway,
Denmark, Spain, Belgium, Canada and some U.S. states were gay marriage has
been legalised.


“From what we know about demographic trends, it is preposterous to argue that
people suddenly somehow embrace marriage and slow or reverse its decline
because homosexuals can have it,” Dr Morgan said.


“We can be certain that same sex marriage will do no such thing as encourage
stable marriage whether for heterosexuals and/or homosexuals. Marriage in
Scandinavia, Spain, Netherlands and elsewhere is in deep decline.”


She continued: “Same sex marriage is both an effect and a cause of the
evisceration of marriage - especially the separation between this and
parenthood.”


Dr Morgan explained that gay marriage became conceivable only in those
countries where marriage was already in crisis because of soaring
“out-of-wedlock births and cohabitation rates” and invariably made such
problems worse


“If marriage is only about couple relationships, and is not intrinsically
connected to parenthood, why not give the leavings to homosexuals?,” she
asked.


“As marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, this reinforces the
irrelevance of marriage to parenthood,” she said.


“Elsewhere, same sex marriage is an instigator for the casualisation of
heterosexual unions and separation of marriage and parenthood.”


She added: “Same sex marriage is more a terminus for marriage or ultimate act
of dissolution, rather than a force for revival.”


The Coalition Government has consistently argued that David Cameron’s
controversial gay marriage Bill will have the effect of strengthening all
marriages by opening it up to same-sex couples.


Last year the Home Secretary, Teresa May, told The Daily Telegraph that
“homosexuals will be missionaries to the wider society and make it
(marriage) ‘stronger’”.


But the research by Dr Morgan, the respected family policy analyst who coined
the phrase “marriage lite” to describe cohabitation, provides hard evidence
that in fact the opposite is likely to happen.


Spain in particular, she said, saw a “precipitous” downward acceleration in
the numbers of all marriages by a 15,000 a year in first three years that
followed the legalisation of same-sex marriage by the Socialist government
in 2005.


The rate of decline later more than doubled to 34,000 fewer marriages a year
in between 2008 and 2010.


Dr Morgan also produced evidence to show that heterosexual marriages were less
stable in those countries where same-sex marriage had been introduced
because they were expected to conform to the values of gay couples whose
unions were often open, rather than exclusive, and far more likely to break
down.


Cohabiting gay couples were 12 times more likely to separate that married
heterosexual couples, she said.


Dr Morgan also predicted the widespread victimisation of individuals and
institutions who dared to resist the redefinition of marriage.


“Some clearly hope that compulsion to perform same sex weddings will sever
Church and state and further push Christianity out of the public arena and,
therefore, consciousness,” she said.


“Undermined and stigmatised for their unreasonableness and prejudice, the
moral authority of religious institutions will further retreat in favour of
a narrow secular ideology, particularly as sexual behaviour at odds with
traditional norms is further encouraged and advanced.”


The Prime Minister has faced intense criticism from the mainstream Churches
and within his own Conservative Party for fast-tracking gay marriage through
Parliament when there was no mandate or demand for it.


His preoccupation with the issue has been blamed for the collapse of grass
roots activism and partly for the recent electoral successes of UKIP, which
pushed the Tories into third place at the Eastleigh by-election last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

 

[KCKID]

Quit the fibbing. I've debated with your types on CP(Christian Post). So I know your arguments inside and out. You have abreast yourself with the typical pro-homo agenda. All anyone has to do is research what I say and they will find it true. You can ONLY deceive the simple and debased.

All solid arguments pro-homosexual remain the same, my man, so of course you would know them inside and out.

All solid arguments pro-homosexual would be consistent with the (your words) 'typical pro-homo agenda'.

If I only learned one thing at uni it's this: the results of research are most always slanted to reflect the original viewpoint of the researcher.

As for "You can only deceive the simple and debased" I already acknowledged that in my previous post. The question is, WHO are 'the simple and the debased' ...?

keep speaking, your words are providing a foot print of what you're really about. Same tactics and nothing new. Hyperbole, lies, emotional appeal, hate & disinformation. B) :lol:

Oh, I will keep speaking as long as I'm allowed to. Messages such as yours of gloom and doom and condemnation and hatred toward others couched in religiosity need to be countered at every opportunity. Oh, that's right ...you already knew that I'd say that . . .

Gay marriage will destabilise family life, sociologist warns
Gay marriage will further destabilise marriage and family life in Britain, a leading sociologist has warned Parliament.

Dr Patricia Morgan told the House of Commons that there was no evidence for the Coalition's claim that gay marriage “would bolster the institution" Photo: ALAMY




Dr Patricia Morgan told the House of Commons that same-sex marriage reinforced





the idea that marriage is irrelevant to parenthood.

This was the principle factor, she said, that has caused the collapse in
marriage rates between heterosexuals in countries where gay marriage had
been introduced - as well as a sharp rise in cohabitation and the numbers of
children born out of wedlock.

She said there was no evidence whatsoever to prove the Coalition Government’s
assertions that gay marriage would bolster the institution.


She made her claims in a 22-page paper submitted at the Committee Stage of the
Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill.


It contained a detailed analysis of marriage trends in Sweden, Norway,
Denmark, Spain, Belgium, Canada and some U.S. states were gay marriage has
been legalised.


“From what we know about demographic trends, it is preposterous to argue that
people suddenly somehow embrace marriage and slow or reverse its decline
because homosexuals can have it,” Dr Morgan said.


“We can be certain that same sex marriage will do no such thing as encourage
stable marriage whether for heterosexuals and/or homosexuals. Marriage in
Scandinavia, Spain, Netherlands and elsewhere is in deep decline.”


She continued: “Same sex marriage is both an effect and a cause of the
evisceration of marriage - especially the separation between this and
parenthood.”


Dr Morgan explained that gay marriage became conceivable only in those
countries where marriage was already in crisis because of soaring
“out-of-wedlock births and cohabitation rates” and invariably made such
problems worse


“If marriage is only about couple relationships, and is not intrinsically
connected to parenthood, why not give the leavings to homosexuals?,” she
asked.


“As marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, this reinforces the
irrelevance of marriage to parenthood,” she said.


“Elsewhere, same sex marriage is an instigator for the casualisation of
heterosexual unions and separation of marriage and parenthood.”


She added: “Same sex marriage is more a terminus for marriage or ultimate act
of dissolution, rather than a force for revival.”


The Coalition Government has consistently argued that David Cameron’s
controversial gay marriage Bill will have the effect of strengthening all
marriages by opening it up to same-sex couples.


Last year the Home Secretary, Teresa May, told The Daily Telegraph that
“homosexuals will be missionaries to the wider society and make it
(marriage) ‘stronger’”.


But the research by Dr Morgan, the respected family policy analyst who coined
the phrase “marriage lite” to describe cohabitation, provides hard evidence
that in fact the opposite is likely to happen.


Spain in particular, she said, saw a “precipitous” downward acceleration in
the numbers of all marriages by a 15,000 a year in first three years that
followed the legalisation of same-sex marriage by the Socialist government
in 2005.


The rate of decline later more than doubled to 34,000 fewer marriages a year
in between 2008 and 2010.


Dr Morgan also produced evidence to show that heterosexual marriages were less
stable in those countries where same-sex marriage had been introduced
because they were expected to conform to the values of gay couples whose
unions were often open, rather than exclusive, and far more likely to break
down.


Cohabiting gay couples were 12 times more likely to separate that married
heterosexual couples, she said.


Dr Morgan also predicted the widespread victimisation of individuals and
institutions who dared to resist the redefinition of marriage.


“Some clearly hope that compulsion to perform same sex weddings will sever
Church and state and further push Christianity out of the public arena and,
therefore, consciousness,” she said.


“Undermined and stigmatised for their unreasonableness and prejudice, the
moral authority of religious institutions will further retreat in favour of
a narrow secular ideology, particularly as sexual behaviour at odds with
traditional norms is further encouraged and advanced.”


The Prime Minister has faced intense criticism from the mainstream Churches
and within his own Conservative Party for fast-tracking gay marriage through
Parliament when there was no mandate or demand for it.


His preoccupation with the issue has been blamed for the collapse of grass
roots activism and partly for the recent electoral successes of UKIP, which
pushed the Tories into third place at the Eastleigh by-election last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

One more time for gullible laypersons and academics alike ...The sky is falling! The sky is falling!



The above panel at the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, DC, reads: "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
-- to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1810


The above quote was addressed to Samuel Kercheval from Thomas Jefferson in 1810. It's just as applicable to today - much more so - than it was when written.

 

[dragonfly]

It's just as applicable to today - much more so - than it was when written.

Hi KC,

When you look around the world at what is going on 200 years later, why would you conclude there has been any 'advance' in 'the human mind'?

'the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times.'


The Light of the world is Jesus Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. That's a fact. Your quote is hypothesis.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Hi SIM,


Let me help you out with this thought. If you revise your definition of 'saint' until it agrees with the Bible's definition of 'saint', then you'll find it is God who calls ordinary believers saints. He does that because saint is the correct word to describe someone who has set themselves apart to God. That is what makes them 'sanctified'. Of course there is usually a short sequence of experiences and understandings which flow together in the process of a non-believer becoming a believer, but from the moment those conditions are fulfilled, an alternative name for a believer is a 'saint'.

For the saint to accept the appellation God has given them, is hardly 'arrogant and redundant'. I guess your forebears called you something when you were born, and you've been known by that name every since. Basically, it's the same general principle.

A saint is someone who is a perfect Christian, which 99% of Christians are not. Read the NT and see how far you are from the burning passion of those people. You are saved through sheer ability, they are saved by pretty much emulating God.

 

[aspen]

there has been an advance in the entire human soul due to the sanctification of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds of His people.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

there has been an advance in the entire human soul due to the sanctification of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds of His people.

I didn't know ignorance and timidity were advancements.

 

[aspen]

Jesus didn't come to transorm His people into genuses. He came to transform people into the perfect lovers they were designed to be. compared to ancient Rome, We have come along way.

 

[marksman]

If I only learned one thing at uni it's this: the results of research are most always slanted to reflect the original viewpoint of the researcher.

Thankyou for that little bit of information. It had proved what we already know that homosexuals and their supporters produce research that supports their bias so therefore it is not objective and therefore unreliable.

One more time for gullible laypersons and academics alike ...The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

The number of times I have seen comments like this or similar by homosexuals and they usually use it when they have been confronted with the truth and have no answer to it because they know it is the truth.

Thankyou for that information JB. I can add it to the mounting collection of comments and research that show exactly the same thing.

There will always be biased arguments made using the fringe organization NAMBLA to imply that all gay men are members, and thus all gay men want to seduce young boys. This is like saying all heterosexual men want to have sex with underage girls because there are a few fringe Mormon churches that believe its OK for men to marry preteen girls and have sex with them. Using fringe groups as examples, even in Christianity, makes for a very biased and weak argument. Thankfully, over that past several decades the conscious awareness of the majority of people understand that sexual orientation will not predict if a man is going to commit a sex crime.

Spin, spin, spin. I have yet to read that anyone has implied all homosexual men are members of NAMBLA. According to research, homosexuals who molest boys are 2:1 compared with heterosexuals who molest girls.

I was at a conference where a homosexual paedophile proudly said he had seduced over 2,000 boys. He hung himself 6 weeks later when the police found out.

The conscious awareness of the pink gaystapo is obviously sadly lacking as they have been saying for at least two years that the Westboro Baptist Church is an example of what the church is like. What you might call using fringe group examples. No, using a VERY fringe group as an example.

Oh, I will keep speaking as long as I'm allowed to. Messages such as yours of gloom and doom and condemnation and hatred toward others couched in religiosity need to be countered at every opportunity. Oh, that's right ...you already knew that I'd say that . . .

Of course we won't mention all the doom and gloom put out by the pink gaystapo.

Don't like being homosexual and want out? Too bad, once homosexual always homosexual.

Once you were homosexual but you are no longer one. You are nothing but a liar.

In California, the pink mafia have convinced the government to pass a law that says if you don't want to be homosexual, you will be taken to court if you engage anyone to help you stop being one and if you offer help to anyone who does not want to be homosexual you will be put in jail.

Talk about intolerance, doom and gloom.

None of those verses imply that every believer is a saint. They tell what is fitting of a saint, which 99% of Christians fail at.

Like most things with Roman Catholics, you read into scripture what is not there. There is not one single mention in any of the verses I posted what a saint should be like. That is nothing more than RC spin.

In the original Greek the same word is used in every case and it tells us who they are (a saint), not what they are.

The Protestant perception is simply wrong. Quite frankly, I find the notion that all believers are saints is extremely arrogant and redundant. Most canonized saints are martyrs. They follow through all the way.

If that is the case, why are there no "canonised saints" in the New Testament. Vast numbers of believers died for their faith in the New Testament, but not one of them is said to be "canonised" and the word "martyr" is an unknown concept.

The above quote was addressed to Samuel Kercheval from Thomas Jefferson in 1810. It's just as applicable to today - much more so - than it was when written.

But Thomas Jefferson is not God and would be insulted if you suggested such a thing and his letter is not the Word of God.

When you are formulating policy or response the place to start is the Word of God, not someone's view. If you do that, you are on sinking sand as you are subject to the whims of the latest idea or demand with no foundation on which to base your response. All you can give is an opinion.

A saint is someone who is a perfect Christian, which 99% of Christians are not. Read the NT and see how far you are from the burning passion of those people. You are saved through sheer ability, they are saved by pretty much emulating God.

According to my bible we are all perfect (complete) in Christ as these verses show...

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And you are complete in him, who is the head of all principality and power:

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the first-born, who are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 3:2 For in many things we all offend. If any man offends not in word, the same is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

 

[aspen]

demonizing someone by associating them with the pink mafia is an obvious and age old tactic to silence them. anyone who is interested in a discussion just looks right past it

 

[KCKID]

By the way ...since I've been accused of having an affiliation with some group known as 'the Pink Mafia' (which I'd never heard about roughly a week ago) I decided to look up the name on the web. The only references to Pink Mafia that I came across was one pertaining to a 'sisterhood' of some decription and the other a term that's applied to selfish wives or girlfriends who intervene in the social lives/male bonding of their husbands/boy friends. In both cases it pertained to females, i.e. pink. Are the one or two who use the term 'Pink Mafia' on this thread even sure that they have the correct name? ...would it be 'the Gay Mafia'? Or, 'the Rainbow Mafia', perhaps? I just need to know which group I'm supposed to belong to so that I can officially subscribe to their thoughts on homosexuality.

 

[aspen]

classic. i was going to look it up myself, but didn't have chance

 

[Axehead]

Hi KC,

When you look around the world at what is going on 200 years later, why would you conclude there has been any 'advance' in 'the human mind'?

'the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times.'


The Light of the world is Jesus Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. That's a fact. Your quote is hypothesis.

Good point, dragonfly.

Many things have advanced, but not the human heart. It still sins, fights and kills and finds ways not to have to turn to the Lord.

Other than that, technology has advanced, medicine has advanced, but the human heart only advances when Jesus is brought into the picture.

A saint is someone who is a perfect Christian, which 99% of Christians are not. Read the NT and see how far you are from the burning passion of those people. You are saved through sheer ability, they are saved by pretty much emulating God.

C'mon SiM, the NT is not full of perfect people. Where is the support that Saints are perfect people. Aspen, do you agree with that or do you agree with all the scriptures that were provided I think by marksman?

 

[aspen]

i believe we were created to love God and others. unfortunately, we are no longer able to love completely unselfishly in this life and therefore we sin. without Christ, we can only love selfishly. someday we will be totally transformed into perfect lovers of other, but i think we will be in heaven when it happens. hope that addresses your question axe

 

[KCKID]

Hi KC,

When you look around the world at what is going on 200 years later, why would you conclude there has been any 'advance' in 'the human mind'?

Good point. I'm not sure that the human mind, per se, has advanced. As we collect more facts and build upon them our intelligence stacks higher but the human mind probably remains the same. Today, the resources that we have available to further education and wisdom have never been greater but, again, the human mind probably remains the same. If we were to somehow bring babies from 200 or more years ago and raise them in modern society, they probably would be indistiguishable from any other children. What WOULD be very different, however - though the infant would be unaware - would be the world the child left behind. Even MUCH MORE SO would be the world of 2000 years ago.

'the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times.'


The Light of the world is Jesus Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. That's a fact.

No. it's not. It's a belief. Very different.

Thankyou for that little bit of information. It had proved what we already know that homosexuals and their supporters produce research that supports their bias so therefore it is not objective and therefore unreliable.

All I said is that so-called 'expert' researchers generally slant their findings to what they believed to begin with. All we really know about those who hold degrees and diplomas is that they hold degrees and diplomas. They look most impressive hung on a wall. It's up to we the people to determine for ourselves fact from fiction. The facts are that homosexuals really do exist. Moreover, they are not going away any time soon and nor should we expect them to. We must therefore allow them equality within society and also welcome them - and everyone else unconditionally - within our churches if they choose to attend. That would be what Jesus would do. After all, He accepts the rest of us miserable sinners, doesn't He?

The number of times I have seen comments like this or similar by homosexuals and they usually use it when they have been confronted with the truth and have no answer to it because they know it is the truth.

What ..."The sky is falling!" The sky is falling!" ...? The Henny Penny story is a good one, isn't it? I thought that you, of all people, would probably relate to it. As for me supplying that story because I've been confronted with your version of truths and am stuck for an answer ...well, I think you've got the wrong man there, marksman. I can quite possibly counter your every move, not that I'm really that interested in debating this issue with you any more than I have to. I actually don't trust anything you've had to say thus far. That said, you really DO believe that homosexuality will cause the sky to fall don't you? C'mon, fess up ...!

Thankyou for that information JB. I can add it to the mounting collection of comments and research that show exactly the same thing.

See, it's this kind of thing that causes me to be wary of you. You actually thank people for supplying you with weaponry to store in your already large 'hate' arsenal. Is this really Christianity at work here?

The conscious awareness of the pink gaystapo is obviously sadly lacking as they have been saying for at least two years that the Westboro Baptist Church is an example of what the church is like. What you might call using fringe group examples. No, using a VERY fringe group as an example.

Who the heck, once and for all, ARE 'the Pink Gestapo'?

Incidentally, what IS the difference between yourself and the Westboro Baptist Church other than (I'm just guessing) that you don't picket funerals displaying banners such as "Fags Must Die: See Leviticus 20:13"? Are you not saying to homosexuals, in effect, "Fags Must Die: See Leviticus 20:13"?

Of course we won't mention all the doom and gloom put out by the pink gaystapo.

There you go again. Do you mean 'the Gay Gestapo'?

Don't like being homosexual and want out? Too bad, once homosexual always homosexual.

Once you were homosexual but you are no longer one. You are nothing but a liar.

Man, you are one angry dude. Did a homosexual wrong you in a former life?

But Thomas Jefferson is not God and would be insulted if you suggested such a thing and his letter is not the Word of God.

Whoever said that Thomas Jefferson's letter was equivalent to the word of God? I sure didn't. That said, God is credited with having spoken MANY words in the Bible. Which ones do we single out? Seriously, there are people who would like to know since so often the term 'the word of God' sounds so vague.

When you are formulating policy or response the place to start is the Word of God, not someone's view. If you do that, you are on sinking sand as you are subject to the whims of the latest idea or demand with no foundation on which to base your response. All you can give is an opinion.

What IS the word of God?

I believe it to be ...'love your God with all your heart, mind and soul' and 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Isn't a homosexual your neighbor? If so, do you love him/her as yourself? This is not reflected in your posts, sad to say.

 

[aspen]

humans cannot generate Truth - all we can do is obey or disobey truth and provide an opinion on it. Only God can create Truth.

 

[JackSafari]

Spin, spin, spin. I have yet to read that anyone has implied all homosexual men are members of NAMBLA. According to research, homosexuals who molest boys are 2:1 compared with heterosexuals who molest girls.

I was at a conference where a homosexual paedophile proudly said he had seduced over 2,000 boys. He hung himself 6 weeks later when the police found out.

The conscious awareness of the pink gaystapo is obviously sadly lacking as they have been saying for at least two years that the Westboro Baptist Church is an example of what the church is like. What you might call using fringe group examples. No, using a VERY fringe group as an example.

The simple reality is that sexuality orientation will not predict if anyone will commit a sex crime.

And as we progress forward, homosexuality will continue be accepted into the main stream of society, and those who remain entrenched in their belief that homosexuality is unacceptable, will become more and more marginalized. Historically when any false belief is slowly being rejected by society's growing awareness, those who hold onto a fading belief tent to yell louder and louder to attempt to make up for decreasing numbers of people who move on and no longer support them. Its God's great design that awareness always prevails, and ignorance is only temporary.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

C'mon SiM, the NT is not full of perfect people. Where is the support that Saints are perfect people. Aspen, do you agree with that or do you agree with all the scriptures that were provided I think by marksman?

They all became enemies of the Jews and Rome, evangelized, and were martyred.

Meanwhile, half the world is starving and Christians are enjoying the life they think God blessed them with.

Discern the difference. You are not a saint, and God is going to make an explicit account of how Protestants try to tell people they are exemplary emulators of God. It is in itself sacrilegious.

The Church gets demonized for pretty much telling the truth that nobody wants to hear. Luther won people with his theology because it was something people wanted to hear.
But that's how the world works with just about anything anyway, so it's hardly surprising.

Sainthood is baptism by fire, it takes a lot of stones to be a saint. This is a very important and centrifugal thing in Catholcism- you're just going to be treading on any Catholic's nerves when you call yourself a saint.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi KC,

The facts are that homosexuals really do exist. Moreover, they are not going away any time soon and nor should we expect them to. We must therefore allow them equality within society and also welcome them - and everyone else unconditionally - within our churches if they choose to attend. That would be what Jesus would do. After all, He accepts the rest of us miserable sinners, doesn't He?

If you scan the NT for other examples of demon possession, would you be as keen in incorporate them into society? Let's say, the cannibals, the murderers and rapists?

The fact is, that as human beings, homosexuals have adequate freedom to be who they are sexually, in privacy, which is the law for everyone.

The requirement to have a marriage certificate is a completely different discussion than the right of a man and a woman to covenant with each other to be faithful to each other until death parts them. Nothing prevents homosexuals making that kind of commitment to one another and fulfilling it.

All the legal jargon and paraphernalia around possessions and inheritance can be covered by appropriate legal arrangements which will bind both parties to fulfil what has been agreed. The palaver around bringing the term 'marriage' into homosexual relations is a whopping red herring.