Homosexuality

[KingJ]

You've clearly missed the point of 1. what I've been saying, and 2. the reason for Jesus dying. 1) No one that I know is saying that 'sin' (such a pointless word when used by fellow 'sinners' to aim at others!) is 'okay'. It's not 'okay' but it IS a human trait and one that WE ALL possess. So, I would suggest as nicely as I can that you come down from your high horse and say after me ..."I am a sinner but my sins have been imputed to Jesus Christ so that I can now appear unblemished before God." You can add a "Hallelujah!" to that if you wish. 2) But, PLEASE ...stop judging other 'treasures of God' just because you believe you can . . .

It's not up to me to stand in (godly) judgment of any society or culture. 3) I'm just a mere mortal and both a sinner and, yep, a hypocrite to boot. I can - and often do - disagree with any number of things about today's world but it's not MY task to take on the authority of a deity. Hypothetically, I might not like the idea of two homosexuals pairing off and getting married but I'll be d----d 4) I'm going to demonize them with the words from a book ...and 'a book' containing words written by men IS what the Bible is. I realize that I sound like a broken record but not I, not you, nor anyone one else can possibly speak on behalf of God. 5) I do believe that we're told not to judge others lest WE be judged in the process. 6) And yet, judging others seems to be the biggest past-time of SO many Christians.

7) By the way, I constantly hear the words, "obedience to God". Would someone explain once and for all in simple English ...what - precisely - does this mean? In fact, let us personalize this so that others can know and, perhaps, learn. Could you, dragonfly, explain HOW you spend your week 'being obedient to God' on the understanding that there are more than 600 commands of God in the Old Testament and that you need to keep them all?

1) Sin is not sin to a Christian. You will divorce your spouse for thinking adultery and not actually doing it ??
2) God forbid. You have not read Paul's instruction to us to judge all things (1 Cor 6:3)? Are you confusing judging with condemning?
3) You are not a new creation in Christ? (2 Cor 5:17). Paul clearly explains that the unsaved have no excuse, but Christians.....
4) You see God's word as a mere book written by men . Are you a Christian?
5) You believe ? You need a bible study in judging! Have you actually read much scripture? You must remember that if we just state our opinion, it is mostly based off half-truths from a world run by the devil...
6) Christians bring the light. Those in darkness will always be offended by those who bring the light. Must we speak the truth in French rather?
7) Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Now be dead honest with me KCKID, do you see someone who goes against the natural cause for which their body was created, day in and day out with no remorse, passing a personal session of self judgement in fear and trembling before a holy God?

As Jimmy Swaggart said, if God approved, He needs to apologize for Sodom and Gommorah.

 

[I am Second]

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, get over yourself already. This whole thread is ridiculous. Read your Bible, it says what it says. Homosexuality is an abomination. I'm going to unfollow this thread as of now. You are beating a dead horse. Pittiful.

 

[KCKID]

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, get over yourself already. This whole thread is ridiculous. Read your Bible, it says what it says. Homosexuality is an abomination. I'm going to unfollow this thread as of now. You are beating a dead horse. Pittiful.

It doesn't matter to me if you were speaking to me personally or not. I was the one who responded to your post. Someone else could have done so but didn't as far as I know. As for getting over myself ...I'm one of the most humble and unassuming people I know . . .

As for reading my Bible ...I have done so many times and continue to do so. Actually, topics such as this keep me on my toes. But, I don't need to affirm myself to you. It's because I have reasonable Bible knowledge that I ignore phrases that many Christians just LOVE to 'parrot', such as 'homosexuality is an abomination', when there are SO many 'abominations' to go around that Christians commit ' on a daily basis without the bat of an eye. This is not to mention, of course, that the Levite holiness code and worship instructions are as applicable to we of today as is sacrificing our children to the god Molech. Nonsense!

Picking up your ball and refusing to play any more sounds cute if you're about 6 years-old. Adults should have the ability to make a case for themselves without having to resort to such tactics as 'I'm going to unfollow this thread as of now', 'you're beating a dead horse', and (I love this one) 'you're pitiful'. Ouch ...that last one hurt!

If you have a case to make and you believe that my brand of Christianity is wrong ...then stand up to me and make your case.

 

[I am Second]

Go verbally abuse a woman somewhere else you twit.

 

[Rex]

If you have a case to make and you believe that my brand of Christianity is wrong ...then stand up to me and make your case.

You are very comfortable in your thesis that homosexuality is not a sin, and If it is, your just as quick to point your finger at another sin.

In ether case you deceive yourself by practicing and or promoting homosexuality, it's apparently of greater importance to you than considering it a sin.
A christian is convicted of sin you express no conviction, and If thats the case I'm certain that your brand of Christianity can justify most any-other type of behavior as well.

You and aspen should get together and practice your "love trumps" right and wrong

 

[KCKID]

Go verbally abuse a woman somewhere else you twit.

And then, you will know them by their fruits . . .

 

[Rex]

And then, you will know them by their fruits . . .

You won't find me picking any fruit from the tree that says homosexuality is not a sin

 

[KCKID]

You are very comfortable in your thesis that homosexuality is not a sin, and If it is, your just as quick to point your finger at another sin.

The definition of the word 'sin' - which appears to be the most overused piece of ammunition in the Christian arsenal - is the "transgression of God's known will." Well, if that be the case then anyone who is disobedient to the more than 600 commands and instructions in the Old Testament is guilty of transgressing "God's known will." Am I wrong?

No, I don't believe that homosexuality is any more a sin than is heterosexuality. However, both homosexuals and heterosexuals WILL be guilty of "transgressing God's will" since God's will is impossible for a human being to conform to. Again, am I wrong?

As for me pointing the finger at other sins ...where have I done this? The only time I raise the question of 'other' sins is when I'm questioning why Christians target one perceived sin (homosexuality) while ignoring a multitude of others.

In ether case you deceive yourself by practicing and or promoting homosexuality, it's apparently of greater importance to you than considering it a sin.

Where have I said that "I" practice homosexuality? I don't, not that it would be the business of anyone else if I did. And, where have I ever 'promoted' homosexuality? It's not my intention to promote anything other than the love message of Jesus. And, as said a number of times, I don't bandy around the word 'sin' because, according to scripture, that term applies to every living soul. Why is it so important for Christians to target others with the term when it equally applies to them? ??? I DO know why, by the way. The question was rhetorical.

A christian is convicted of sin you express no conviction, and If thats the case I'm certain that your brand of Christianity can justify most any-other type of behavior as well.

You mean the kind of 'sinful' behavior that we all commit to some degree or another on a daily basis? Just for the record, I have expressed a great deal of conviction over some of the wrongs (or 'sins' if you prefer) that I've committed in my life time; however, this is something that I really shouldn't have to justify to others. We all need to take care of our own backywards and the huge log in our own eye as opposed to concerning ourselves with the perceived 'sins' of others. That IS good advice to live by, by the way.

You and aspen should get together and practice your "love trumps" right and wrong

Maybe we should except I don't know aspen any more than I know you or you know me. Generalizing is not wise.

You won't find me picking any fruit from the tree that says homosexuality is not a sin

Rex, you just endorsed the post of a (I presume) professed Christian who didn't care that he insulted another person. And that you didn't even notice and, indeed, used my response to the unChristlike remark by I am Second with which to make your point is rather shameful, y'know. While I may not agree with you on issues such as this, I will try never to insult you ...okay?

As for your above comment ...show me (from the Bible) where homosexuality is said to be 'a sin' ...please . . .

 

[Rex]

As for your above comment ...show me (from the Bible) where homosexuality is said to be 'a sin' ...please . . .

You have heard and know the verses as well as I do, the difference is you chose to ignore them to justify homosexuality

The last post I made "on the previous page" I made it perfectly clear that I don't intend to waste my time discussing whether homosexuality is a sin or not.
What I do see is you attempting to antagonize those that disagree with your perception of right or wrong behavior before God.

Please by all means follow your hearts desire but don't hold your breath waiting for me to approve of your choices.
There are 9 people that agree with you, I suggest you petition them for support. Or better yet, here's a gay church web site maybe you will find what it is your looking for there http://www.gaychurch.org/

I have understanding and compassion for those that struggle with sin but I have no such feelings for those that practice sin and call it love.

 

[I am Second]

unChristlike remark by I am Second

LOL! Do you even know what a twit is? It's a silly person. What a sin! lol

The verbal abuse in this thread is unGodly.


Why do I keep getting emails for this thread when I quit following it.

 

[KCKID]

1) Sin is not sin to a Christian. You will divorce your spouse for thinking adultery and not actually doing it ??

I haven't got a clue what you mean. Please clarify.

2) God forbid. You have not read Paul's instruction to us to judge all things (1 Cor 6:3)? Are you confusing judging with condemning?

Christians (many) do both. It's 'they' that are confused.

3) You are not a new creation in Christ? (2 Cor 5:17). Paul clearly explains that the unsaved have no excuse, but Christians.....

I don't follow. What does this have to do with those with a homosexual OR heterosexual predisposition?

4) You see God's word as a mere book written by men . Are you a Christian?

Yes, I'm a Christian and, yes, I also see the Bible as having been written (and collated) by men. Did I say something wrong?

5) You believe ? You need a bible study in judging! Have you actually read much scripture? You must remember that if we just state our opinion, it is mostly based off half-truths from a world run by the devil...

Yes, I HAVE read and studied scripture over many years. This is why I believe that I know what I'm talking about. That said, I don't make a point of seeking out 'sinners' so that I can flaunt my piousness by bashing them with scriptures as others might do.

6) Christians bring the light. Those in darkness will always be offended by those who bring the light. Must we speak the truth in French rather?

I think the French might appreciate hearing the gospel message (i.e. the 'love' message) in their own language. As for 'the truth' ...what the heck is 'the truth'? Every one of six million (exaggeration) Christian denominations have their version of 'the truth' ...including those who welcome homosexuals. Can YOU give us a simple version of 'the truth' in one sentence? One sentence WILL do it, by the way!

7) Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Now be dead honest with me KCKID, do you see someone who goes against the natural cause for which their body was created, day in and day out with no remorse, passing a personal session of self judgement in fear and trembling before a holy God?

Working out one's own salvation with fear and trembling would be just as applicable to any of us but you're somehow using that scripture as a reference to homosexuality. As for 'natural cause' the bodies of men and women were designed for procreation but not, as far as I can see scripturally speaking, for 'procreational sex'. So, as long as people, whether hetosexual or homosexual, are being intimate 'for the sheer pleasure of the experience' then they are not using their bodies for which it was designed ...right? On the other hand, if intimacy is 'fine' even though procreation is not the intent, then what difference does it matter the genders of the people experiencing the pleasure?

As Jimmy Swaggart said, if God approved, He needs to apologize for Sodom and Gommorah.

Well, while I used to love many of the Jimmy Swaggart Ministry music telecasts (and particularly the wonderful and inspiring voice of John Starnes) I would hardly place too much stock in what ol' Jimmy had to say when pertaining to morality! That said, Sodom and Gomorrah and their destruction had nothing to do with homosexuality which I guess is why you raised them as an example ...?

You have heard and know the verses as well as I do, the difference is you chose to ignore them to justify homosexuality

The last post I made "on the previous page" I made it perfectly clear that I don't intend to waste my time discussing whether homosexuality is a sin or not.
What I do see is you attempting to antagonize those that disagree with your perception of right or wrong behavior before God.

Please by all means follow your hearts desire but don't hold your breath waiting for me to approve of your choices.
There are 9 people that agree with you, I suggest you petition them for support. Or better yet, here's a gay church web site maybe you will find what it is your looking for there http://www.gaychurch.org/

I have understanding and compassion for those that struggle with sin but I have no such feelings for those that practice sin and call it love.

I've read and borne in mind what you said above. I believe that I know and conform to the gospel message of Jesus Christ and that's all I can say. That you disagree with that is your prerogative and is to be respected as long as you don't insult or demean others who believe differently. You say that you have understanding and compassion for those that struggle with sin but that you have no such feelings for those that practice sin and call it love. I (and possibly 8 others ) have a couple of problems with what you say. 1. Unless you get these perceived 'sinners' to sign an affidavit to say that they are INDEED 'sinning' or you otherwise voyeuristically (is that a word?) follow them into their bedrooms and actually witness what you would term to be 'sinning', then how do you know WHO is actually 'practicing sin and calling it love'? Wouldn't that be between 'the sinner' and God? 2. Would YOU sign an affidavit saying that YOU are sinless, i.e. not practicing 'sin'? Truthfully? If you can do so then I will humbly submit to your 'truth' because that means you must surely be Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

KCKID, you wiggle out of a corner like a worm and dance around facts like a fairy. Please do come clean on your agenda. Let us try help you at the source.

 

[KCKID]

KCKID, you wiggle out of a corner like a worm and dance around facts like a fairy. Please do come clean on your agenda. Let us try help you at the source.

What 'facts' are you referring to? One can only wiggle out of something that isn't solid to begin with.

I don't have an agenda to 'come clean' on.

I long since rejected the 'help' of 'mainstream Christianity' and its questionable and often hate-filled 'us and them' beliefs which bear little resemblance to the teachings of Jesus.

As an addendum to the above I want to clarify that I use the term 'mainstream Christianity' in a general sense. I know many sincere and loving Christians - some of whom probably don't approve of homosexuality - and I'm proud to call them my friends. I'm more referring to 'mainstream Christianity' as a 'system' rather than as a reference to actual 'people'.

LOL! Do you even know what a twit is? It's a silly person. What a sin! lol

Well, according to Jesus, calling someone a fool (as was your intent with 'twit') will be in danger of the fire of hell. True! (Matthew 5:22)

However, the word 'twit' was the least offensive part of your post. Read it again. There are a couple of sayings. One is ..."if you argue with a fool, who is the bigger fool?" The second saying is ..."even the fool might have something of value to say." I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask ...do you have something of value to say?

The verbal abuse in this thread is unGodly.

That's big of you to admit it.

Why do I keep getting emails for this thread when I quit following it.

Because someone loves you perhaps . . .? :wub:

 

[KingJ]

What 'facts' are you referring to? One can only wiggle out of something that isn't solid to begin with.

I don't have an agenda to 'come clean' on.

I long since rejected the 'help' of 'mainstream Christianity' and its questionable and often hate-filled 'us and them' beliefs which bear little resemblance to the teachings of Jesus.

Are you gay?

 

[mjrhealth]

Its sad, in church we have

Fornicators, adulterers, child abusers, rapists, murderers, liars, thieves, lawyers, alcoholics, drug users, those with unforgiveness, haters, deceivers and pharisees, but thats ok because on the outside they manage to hide it all so to everyone they appear to be good people, but the moment a homosexual steps in its like the worst sinner on earth has just appeared. No God sees the Heart, He looks past the exterior, one cannot hide from God, but see Jesus is a righteous Judge,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

No one is condoning homsexuality,but neither does anyone have any right to judge them, we are not qualified.

In All His Love

 

[KingJ]

Its sad, in church we have

Fornicators, adulterers, child abusers, rapists, murderers, liars, thieves, lawyers, alcoholics, drug users, those with unforgiveness, haters, deceivers and pharisees, but thats ok because on the outside they manage to hide it all so to everyone they appear to be good people, but the moment a homosexual steps in its like the worst sinner on earth has just appeared. No God sees the Heart, He looks past the exterior, one cannot hide from God, but see Jesus is a righteous Judge,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

No one is condoning homsexuality,but neither does anyone have any right to judge them, we are not qualified.

In All His Love

Who says fornicators are not to be judged? It is just easier to see homosexuality as dads are acting like mothers. Are you really this naive? Have you done a bible study on judging yet? You pass english 101 with the verses you quote but fail at Christianity 101.

You have heard and know the verses as well as I do, the difference is you chose to ignore them to justify homosexuality

Amen! That is the bottom line! Just like the devil did. The devil would love to annoyingly go in circles all day with Jesus. ''it is written, angels will catch you if you fall'' Yes, well done devil, you can read. But why take that verse without ''you shall not tempt God'??? We all know the devils agenda. But we do not know KCKIDS or MJRhealths agenda. If they won't be open we can only assume its along the same lines as the devil.

 

[KCKID]

Are you gay?

Um ...no . . .and you?

I just love how it's assumed that someone is gay whenever they're in disagreement with mainstream Christian tenets on this issue.

We all know the devils agenda. But we do not know KCKIDS or MJRhealths agenda. If they won't be open we can only assume its along the same lines as the devil.

What unmittigated bunkum! The reason I'm so disliked by some of you on the forum is precisely because I AM open! I left behind your brand of hateful and judgmental Christianity several years ago and I'm a far better Christian for it. Is that open enough for you?

 

[KingJ]

Um ...no . . .and you?

I just love how it's assumed that someone is gay whenever they're in disagreement with mainstream Christian tenets on this issue.

You don't think its a logical question when you are clearly construing scripture to support it?

What unmittigated bunkum! The reason I'm so disliked by some of you on the forum is precisely because I AM open! I left behind your brand of hateful and judgmental Christianity several years ago and I'm a far better Christian for it. Is that open enough for you?

I don't dislike you, just irritated by the garbage you write....annoyed by how you pick and choose lines to reply to / scriptures to construe your warped view. You are unteachable imho. You will feel more liked amongst fluzy Christians ....the kind that will stick to you with a smile right up to the gates of hell.

'Hateful and judgemental'....? You don't hate sin???? You confuse judging with condemning? TIP: If you don't want to feel ''judged / condemned'' on your support of homosexuality....don't call yourself a Christian?

Christians open themselves up to judgement. They welcome it. The love it!!! I feel washed when someone points out my error. You and mjrhealth are in serious need of a good bible study on judging, exhorting and restoring one another!! There is NO such thing as bible punching a Christian!

 

[KCKID]

You don't think its a logical question when you are clearly construing scripture to support it?

I've noticed that when I ask for scriptures to support a belief all I usually get in response are sarcastic one-liners. So, I'll try again. Which ARE the scriptures that I'm supposedly misconstruing? I don't know whether or not this is considered to be a discussion/debate forum or rather an outlet for the self righteous to come for a pat on the back; however, I'm perfectly willing to defend my position on this issue from a biblical perspective.

I don't dislike you, just irritated by the garbage you write....annoyed by how you pick and choose lines to reply to / scriptures to construe your warped view. You are unteachable imho. You will feel more liked amongst fluzy Christians ....the kind that will stick to you with a smile right up to the gates of hell.

Again, nothing other than demeaning diatribe. It would be the better part of valor on my part to let those such as yourself continue to exalt yourselves to sainthood and just leave you to it. However, are you game for a SERIOUS discussion on the scriptures that you and yours use to both judge and condemn homosexuals?

'Hateful and judgemental'....? You don't hate sin???? You confuse judging with condemning? TIP: If you don't want to feel ''judged / condemned'' on your support of homosexuality....don't call yourself a Christian?

No offense (oh, what the heck, I don't care if you're offended) but that was simply more pious diatribe from someone who truly believes that he's attained perfection simply because he carries a Bible. Fortunately, this is just typical Christian forum rhetoric and should not be taken too seriously. No, I don't 'hate' anything. Not usually. That said, if I DO have borderline hate feelings at all it's usually toward those arrogant professed Christians who spend their lives pointing the finger at others. And THAT - truly - does sicken me to the stomach!

Christians open themselves up to judgement. They welcome it. The love it!!! I feel washed when someone points out my error. You and mjrhealth are in serious need of a good bible study on judging, exhorting and restoring one another!! There is NO such thing as bible punching a Christian!

Then I guess you'll welcome a serious discussion on those scriptures you use to judge and to condemn homosexuals . . .?

 

[Rex]

Here's something for the 9 to think about that voted homosexuality is not a sin.

Fire-7, kiwimac, year2027, Highlight, Justinian, Xian Pugilist, IHSscj, Jan 1111, KCKID


1 John
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.