How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Episkopos]

There are no transforming steps- you make them up.

I make them up from copy-pasting verses from the bible.

The fact is I provided 3 passages that declare believers have had the following happen with NO CONDITIONS attached.

1- you have died- past tense
2-you have been raised- past tense
3- we have been crucified with Christ- past tense

facts? Jesus as fact? What we are seeing here are facts taken from the bible and turned into truth by a religious imagination.

The assumption that all believers (believers in beliefs about the bible) experience ANYTHING that is written in the bible is NOT factual at all.

None of the above have any conditions but are biblical truths/facts for all believers. One either believers them to be true or denies Gods promises. Its a matter of faith.

A matter of belief you mean. All believers in beliefs can claim anything...and have it immediately...no conditions. Any child can play with cars and be anything he wants...a policeman today, a fireman tomorrow. Do these kinds of vocations exist? Yes! That's what makes the play so interesting..imagining yourself into the reality.

Faith, on the other hand, gets God involved, truth involved, reality involved...

Should I believe you or Paul who wrote Gods inspired word ?

Is Paul talking to you and about you? Do you believe that I'm talking to you?

I will go with Paul 24/7 over your subjective " opinions ".

hope this helps !!!

My subjective opinions? It would be like trying to convince a child that he's not really a policeman or a fireman. All you get is a tantrum.

Let go of your religious opinions...and seek God's face...like the people that Paul was addressing back in the day.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we can learn from the OT but we are no longer under it

I never stated we were under the OT. But we really aren’t under is the Law. We are most definitely under the OT as it pertains to lessons from God.

Even the Apostles cite the OT frequently in the scriptures to provide a lesson to NT saints.

The New Covenant is new because it supersedes the Old Covenant.

Okay.

 

[ChristisGod]

I make them up from copy-pasting verses from the bible.



facts? Jesus as fact? What we are seeing here are facts taken from the bible and turned into truth by a religious imagination.

The assumption that all believers (believers in beliefs about the bible) experience ANYTHING that is written in the bible is NOT factual at all.



A matter of belief you mean. All believers in beliefs can claim anything...and have it immediately...no conditions. Any child can play with cars and be anything he wants...a policeman today, a fireman tomorrow. Do these kinds of vocations exist? Yes! That's what makes the play so interesting..imagining yourself into the reality.

Faith, on the other hand, gets God involved, truth involved, reality involved...


Is Paul talking to you and about you? Do you believe that I'm talking to you?

My subjective opinions? It would be like trying to convince a child that he's not really a policeman or a fireman. All you get is a tantrum.

Let go of your religious opinions...and seek God's face...like the people that Paul was addressing back in the day.

I see Scripture in your realm is not living and active and sharper than a 2 edge sword. Its nothing but a dead book with history lessons. The word of God in your belief is not eternal and returns back to God void- just the opposite of what the Bible declares about the living and abiding word of God. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


Matthew 5:18
For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35-
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

1 Peter 1:23-25
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.For, “All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that was preached to you.

Isaiah 55:11
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Do I need to provide another dozen passages that refute your beliefs about Gods eternal word that will never pass away- Scripture ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

I never stated we were under the OT. But we really aren’t under is the Law. We are most definitely under the OT as it pertains to lessons from God.

Even the Apostles cite the OT frequently in the scriptures to provide a lesson to NT saints.


Okay.

Agreed !

Sometimes its takes an exchange or two to clarify and get on the same page with each other through this medium. Its not like a person to person face to face dialogue lol.

 

[Enoch111]

How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

There is no need to complicate this at all. We reckon ourselves dead to (done with) sin by focusing on righteousness and good works. Do we walk away from something that stinks? Then why not apply that analogy and move on to the real focus. Those who are saved are "ordained" unto good works (Eph 2:10). At the same time they are commanded to live righteously, soberly, and godly in this present world.

 

[Episkopos]

​

There is no need to complicate this at all. We reckon ourselves dead to (done with) sin by focusing on righteousness and good works.

True. And that supports the idea that we are carrying our own cross by doing this. We are in control by our reckoning...by an act of the will.

Do we walk away from something that stinks? Then why not apply that analogy and move on to the real focus. Those who are saved are "ordained" unto good works (Eph 2:10). At the same time they are commanded to live righteously, soberly, and godly in this present world.

Again true....again supporting the idea that we are called to DO what is right...hence the proper reckoning with the human will to obey God.

I don't know how many see that actually being crucified and dead to sin as an act of divine grace is on a whole other level to this.

Jesus didn't have to die to make us want to try doing better. His crucifixion and resurrection are meant to empower us to do as He did...exactly as He did. By grace through faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not everyone who owns a musical instrument knows how to play it. We can be owners and not players. Not everyone who owns a bible understands the message within it.

We are not to be hearers of the word only...but doers of the word.
How does reckoning work with that? Well. we can use the word "reckon" to mean that we reckon ourselves to have understood the bible.

The same goes for someone who buys an instrument reckoning he/she is already a musician. Aren't people who do that looking to bring shame on themselves? And the more serious that reckoning, the deeper the shame?

So even with a word like "reckoning"...which is used as a "Trojan horse" by many to get themselves into the narrative...there must be a sober realization that we can't just pretend to be like Paul...and to have everything he had.

We see that same "Trojan horse" strategy with the words "born again". People will consider themselves to be born again...so they assume all the other attributres of spiritual progression from there...like they are one day going to "grow into holiness" for following that same course of assumptions...and even one day be glorified!

Or not.

it does not say to reckon we understand the bible

It says reckon ourselves dead to sin. plain and simple period..

Take it at its word man, stop twisting the word of God to support your whatever it is you call it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are definitely lessons we can learn from the OT but we are no longer under it as Paul makes clear in Galatians and also from the book of Hebrews. The New Covenant is new because it supersedes the Old Covenant.

My point was we do not have to go to the OT to understand what reckon ourselves dead to sin means. Just read the passage.,.

 

[ChristisGod]

My point was we do not have to go to the OT to understand what reckon ourselves dead to sin means. Just read the passage.,.

Agreed !

 

[Eternally Grateful]

​

There is no need to complicate this at all. We reckon ourselves dead to (done with) sin by focusing on righteousness and good works. Do we walk away from something that stinks? Then why not apply that analogy and move on to the real focus. Those who are saved are "ordained" unto good works (Eph 2:10). At the same time they are commanded to live righteously, soberly, and godly in this present world.

and we have the freedom and power to do this. because we are dead to sin. Sin has no power over us. It can not longer condemn us..

 

[Episkopos]

and we have the freedom and power to do this. because we are dead to sin. Sin hos no power over us. It can not longer condemn us..

As in...because the penalty for sin has already been paid...

 

[ChristisGod]

As in...because the penalty for sin has already been paid...

No because we died with Christ and were raised together with Him in newness of life. Our old self was crucified with Him and its no longer I who live but He who lives in me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As in...because the penalty for sin has already been paid...

Welcome to the cross.

let me guess. You want to pay for your own sin?

What power is there in that? Can you? do you have the ability?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No because we died with Christ and were raised together with Him in newness of life. Our old self was crucified with Him and its no longer I who live but He who lives in me.

its all of the above including the power of the cross. It is not just one thing.

 

[Episkopos]

So in modern religious circles we now have a book.... a permissive book that encourages assumptions and presumptions......a misunderstood book that is being subverted to:

1. Give permission for people to justify themselves...even at the level of God Himself.

2. To be no longer responsible for sins...because they are all covered over already. Just look to the cross...

3. Name and claim all the promises of God for oneself .... including a claim to be holy (in stages) based on a belief that beliefs in those things is all that is required in a "simple" plan from God.


All of this from reading a book and believing its taking about you...inserting yourself in the text. With no divine intervention from God required (or desired). And all of this without realizing the Great Delusion that should almost fool the elect...who would NEVER fall for such an obvious carnal scheme.

And all of this religious posturing based on a personal relationship with God? I would say its a way to avoid a relationship with God...but I'm in the minority here.

What the above schemes do is detract from the truth and the power of the gospel...turning away people from the depth of victory in Christ to a religious ideology that supports the flesh. No freedom there.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You want to pay for your own sin?

I imagine many people can’t pay their earthly debts.

But if one rich man came and paid all their debts, they would be wise not to engage in behaviors that lead to more debt afterwards…

That rich man will not again pay the debts of mockers…

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So in modern religious circles we now have a book.... a permissive book that encourages assumptions and presumptions......a misunderstood that is being subverted into book to:

1. Give permission for people to justify themselves...even at the level of God Himself.

2. To be no longer responsible for sins...because they are all covered over already. Just look to the cross...

3. Name and claim all the promises of God for oneself .... including a claim to be holy (in stages) based on a belief that beliefs in those things is all that is required in a "simple" plan from God.


All of this from reading a book and believing its taking about you...inserting yourself in the text. With no divine intervention from God required (or desired). And all of this without realizing the Great Delusion that should almost fool the elect...who would NEVER fall for such an obvious carnal scheme.

And all of this religious posturing based on a personal relationship with God? I would say its a way to avoid a relationship with God...but I'm in the minority here.

What the above schemes do is detract from the truth and the power of the gospel...turning away people from the depth of victory in Christ to a religious ideology that supports the flesh. No freedom there.

There you go running again

Once again, How are your sins going to be Paid? Are you paying the debt for your own sin?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus was not a respector of persons. He so loved the WORLD, he died for it.

You me and everyone else is part of that world Jesus died for. So we can through faith know we will never die, but have eternal life..

 

[Episkopos]

There you go running again

Once again, How are your sins going to be Paid? Are you paying the debt for your own sin?

You are claiming that for yourself by your beliefs. I wait on God...without the naming and claiming that makes you feel justified...in your own opinion.

 

[ChristisGod]

So in modern religious circles we now have a book.... a permissive book that encourages assumptions and presumptions......a misunderstood book that is being subverted to:

1. Give permission for people to justify themselves...even at the level of God Himself.

2. To be no longer responsible for sins...because they are all covered over already. Just look to the cross...

3. Name and claim all the promises of God for oneself .... including a claim to be holy (in stages) based on a belief that beliefs in those things is all that is required in a "simple" plan from God.


All of this from reading a book and believing its taking about you...inserting yourself in the text. With no divine intervention from God required (or desired). And all of this without realizing the Great Delusion that should almost fool the elect...who would NEVER fall for such an obvious carnal scheme.

And all of this religious posturing based on a personal relationship with God? I would say its a way to avoid a relationship with God...but I'm in the minority here.

What the above schemes do is detract from the truth and the power of the gospel...turning away people from the depth of victory in Christ to a religious ideology that supports the flesh. No freedom there.

Wow you deny Gods word is eternal, inspired and for all men at all times. This tells me all I need to know. Its nothing but a history book and is not alive, living, active, it does not cause the new birth, the gospel doesn't save since the words are not alive- the seed of God as in the parable of the soils.

There is no power in your gospel since Gods word where the gospel comes from is not for today, its a history book. There is no powwr in a gospel that is not eternal and based upon Gods eternal word that will never return void but will accomplish what God sent it out to do.

Yikes..........