Hi to all , and since we have some that believe that we have to keep the 10 Commandment , How DOES THAT SAVE any person today ?
Will you debate , dan p
Will you debate , dan p
How can a Person under the Law be saved ?
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tomwebster
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The law itself did not redeem us from our sins. The shedding of blood is the ONLY thing that can do that....and not just any blood; only by the blood of Christ are our sins removed.
Now keeping the law is a different story.
Jesus tells us this.....
Matt.19
[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
And Paul tells us this.....
Rom.2
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul says this also about God's laws...
1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul then tells us to keep this commandment.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Boy......that Paul sure was a confused dude! On one hand he says, the laws were nailed to His cross, and on the other hand, don't do this, for breaking these laws will not allow you into God's kingdom.
Well which one is it Paul?? Should I follow God's commandment and do as you say and FLEE FORNICATION, or has that law been nailed to His cross?
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Hi tw , and there some Law keepers here and I would like to know how a person can be saved under the Law .
It is that simple ?
What verse would they have ?
dan p
tomwebster
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Why not just read several of the many other posts on this same subject on this forum instead of starting a new one?
Well he found you, Eccl is the forums foremost authority on keeping the law.
I recommend a dose of Dramamine before entering the debate as Eccl likes to run in circles.
Hi Eccl , and you did NOT ADDRESS the OP , how can a person that keeps the 10 commandments be saved .
I have one for you , Eph 2:8 " For by Grace ye are saved "",
It looks like you expound a concept and have no Proof ?
What do you think about Habakkuk 2:4 , The the JUST shall by his faith .
It is insulting that you will say that " the Holy Spirit writing through Paul " was a confused dude , when you are the confused one ..
Can you do better ?? dN P
tomwebster
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OK........Just so we are on the same page here. You asked......
"How can a person that keeps the 10 commandments be saved."
And by saved, you do mean saved from dying the second death, right? Saved, as NOT being thrown into the lake of fire, right? Saved as in, being able to enjoy the kigndom of God, correct? Saved as in ETERNAL LIFE, am I right?
I mean, after all.....are not ALL of these meant when you ask the question, "How can one be saved?"
Is there ANYTHING else to be saved from?
Well, if that was in fact your question, I gave the answer that Jesus gave when the same question was asked of Him. Let's read it again....
Matt. 19
[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Now let's again read how Jesus answered this question....
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
And what were some of the commandments Jesus listed? Let's read those also....
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Now let's look again at your question,
And my answer to that question is to do what Jesus said to do when the same question was asked of Him.....
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Now this is NOT my answer. This is God's answer! And I'm going to do the best I can do follow His advice.
Do you not believe Jesus words? Do you think He would tell us a lie? Do you believe Jesus is wrong? Maybe He made a mistake or didn't understand the question?
Who do you believe? Jesus or what you THINK Paul said?
This is why Peter gave us this warning about ALL of Pauls writings.....
"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
You guys THINK Paul is saying you are not obligated to keep God's laws, when GOD HIMSELF JUST TOLD YOU EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED FOR ETERNAL LIFE!!!!
So again....Do you go with the guy that is going to judge you? Or do you go with what you THINK Paul is saying?
Take Peters warning! If you get this one wrong....it very well could lead to your own destruction....the second death!
Readers...you had better do a lot of research and find out what Paul is really saying in his writings.
Find out what he means by the phrase "works of the law" and "deeds of the law", for when he these phrases he he is NOT talking about the ones he tells us to keep like,
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body."
Readers.....how can this law be nailed to the cross and man is no longer obligated to keep it?
How can you not be under this law any longer?
The set of laws we are no longer under are the ones that God never liked in the first place but He allowed so that He would not have to destroy ALL of his creation.....MAN!
Readers..... Can God make it any more clear what is needed for eternal life?
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
And then if you had any doubts He went on to quote a few....
"He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
As I said before...The ONLY thing that can redeem us from our sins in the blood of Christ! Well...that has already been done. So do we continue to NOT keep God's laws? Of course not! We do our best to keep them! Do we have to keep them perfectly. No...for nowhere in the bible does God say we MUST keep them perfectly, but just because we cannot keep them perfectly are we not to try to keep them at all?
Come on readers..... I know there are some out there smarter than to think God's laws do not have to be obeyed!
Which would you let into your kingdom? Those that at least did their best to keep your laws or those that didn't bother. Not only did they not bother....they then told others not to waste their time trying to keep your laws?
This is simple. And I know for a fact there are those reading this that know the true way....
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
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Well he found you, Eccl is the forums foremost authority on keeping the law.
I recommend a dose of Dramamine before entering the debate as Eccl likes to run in circles.
Hi bud02 , and I know and you know that " Iron sharpeth Iron " and I have many arrows that I have not used , dan p
Robbie
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Hi tw , and since you say that I do not , KNOW , why not correct me , be my guest , dan p
Hi Eccl . and you wrote what was given to Israel and Paul by the Holy Spirit say that Gentiles were never given a Covenant in Eph 2:12 and were OUTSIDE THE covenants and promises from the commonwealth of Israel and what you wrote is MOOT , AND THE cONTEXT WAS ALL Israel . dan p
And who did Jesus shed His blood for? Everybody! But will everbody enter into God's kingdom? No! And what will those that enter DO differently than those that will not enter therein?
Also.....
Does it say anywhere in the bible that faith is the ONLY thing that is needed for salvation? No. As a matter of fact, God's word tells us just the opposite;
Rom.10
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
[16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So you have to CALL on the name of the Lord.
You have to BELIEVE in the Lord.
You have to HEAR the word of the Lord.
You need a PREACHER to give the word of the Lord.
And the preacher must be SENT by the Lord.
What else is needed? Let's read.
Rom.2
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Readers.....remember what Peter said about ALL of Pauls writings. If you do not study Pauls writings you could get very confused!
So you need to be a doer of God's laws as well.
And there is yet more.....
James 2
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
And you need works!
Here James tells us we NEED works to go with faith. Do we ignore the writings of James just because they do not appear to go hand in hand with the writings of Paul? Of course not! Paul even tells us....
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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How is what Jesus said MOOT! Like I said, the answer I gave was not mine, it was the answer that Jesus gave. Let me ask you, do you think what Jesus told the young man what was needed for eternal life was only for the nation of Israel?
Also, when Paul said to flee fornication, where do you think he got that law from? And do you think he would not tell everybody, Israel or Gentile to do the same; flee fornication?
As I asked.....Do you not believe Jesus words? Do you think He would tell us a lie? Do you believe Jesus is wrong? Maybe He made a mistake or didn't understand the question? Are we not to live by ALL the words of God?
Well.......Jesus said, "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."!
Are we to ignore this commandment as well?
Hey...the choice is yours....but do consider what else your judge has said....
Matt.5
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Telling others they are not obligated to keep God's law is a very, very bad thing to do. Are you SURE Paul teaches we are not under ANY of God's laws any more? Could they really all have been nailed to the cross?
Here is an example of one such law your Judge says we are obligated to keep....
[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:.....
So is this MOOT also?
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Hi Eccl . and I am AMUSED that you have to go to Paul and TRY to prove your ILLUSIONS .
If you knew the OT , why can you not use the OT to prove your dilemma , for in Matt 26:28 it says , " which is shed for MANY " and pray tell How many is Many in this verse , 12 , 1000 , 10,000 ??
What doe MANY MEANS ???
POLYS in Greek means , many , much or large , and does not say the world , you are out of GAS , dan p
Nine of the Ten commandments are in the NT. They are moral issues, I.E. lying, stealing, adultery, etc. NOT WORKS. The rest of THE LAW of Moses are works. Christians are not under the works of THE LAW. But the NT still says it is sin to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, etc. The NT is free from the works of THE LAW. We are free. Those who are saved do not live sinful lives. Some here are trying to put us under the bondage of the works of THE LAW. I am not under the works of THE LAW. Why would God give us a New Covenant in Jesus' Blood if we are still under the works of THE LAW?
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]For as many as are of the works of THE LAW are under the curse;
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]For as many as are of the works of THE LAW are under the curse;
Not really interested in debating DanP , but of course I will be sure to give my opinion .
Yes , you can be saved if you can keep all the law and the commandments. I can be saved that way as well.
Otherwise you need a savior. .. Otherwise I need a savior.
The savior came for no other reason.
None whatsoever.
>Martin W.<
>I have sinned<
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