Readers...you had better do a lot of research and find out what Paul is really saying in his writings.
Find out what he means by the phrase "works of the law" and "deeds of the law", for when he these phrases he he is NOT talking about the ones he tells us to keep like,
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body."
These are some of the truest words I've seen on a forum in a while.
Hi tw , and since you say that I do not , KNOW , why not correct me , be my guest , dan p
Hi Eccl . and you wrote what was given to Israel and Paul by the Holy Spirit say that Gentiles were never given a Covenant in Eph 2:12 and were OUTSIDE THE covenants and promises from the commonwealth of Israel and what you wrote is MOOT , AND THE cONTEXT WAS ALL Israel . dan p
Well, Dan, Let me ask you question. You say it was all to Israel. Then how are you saved? Jesus said, I have only come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That leaves two options. One, Paul was wrong and no one is saved but the Jews, or two there is some way that Jesus' words apply to the Gentiles. Which is it and if you choose option two please explain how those words pertain to the Gentiles.
And who did Jesus shed His blood for? Everybody! But will everbody enter into God's kingdom? No! And what will those that enter DO differently than those that will not enter therein?
Also.....
Does it say anywhere in the bible that faith is the ONLY thing that is needed for salvation? No. As a matter of fact, God's word tells us just the opposite;
Rom.10
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
[16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So you have to CALL on the name of the Lord.
You have to BELIEVE in the Lord.
You have to HEAR the word of the Lord.
You need a PREACHER to give the word of the Lord.
And the preacher must be SENT by the Lord.
What else is needed? Let's read.
Rom.2
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Readers.....remember what Peter said about ALL of Pauls writings. If you do not study Pauls writings you could get very confused!
So you need to be a doer of God's laws as well.
And there is yet more.....
James 2
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
And you need works!
Here James tells us we NEED works to go with faith. Do we ignore the writings of James just because they do not appear to go hand in hand with the writings of Paul? Of course not! Paul even tells us....
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
.
Paul also said that those woho continue in well doing are seeking eternal life. If works played no roll then continuing in well doing would not be seeking eternal life.
Romans 2:4-10 ( KJV )
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of
the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who
by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Nine of the Ten commandments are in the NT. They are moral issues, I.E. lying, stealing, adultery, etc. NOT WORKS. The rest of THE LAW of Moses are works. Christians are not under the works of THE LAW. But the NT still says it is sin to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, etc. The NT is free from the works of THE LAW. We are free. Those who are saved do not live sinful lives. Some here are trying to put us under the bondage of the works of THE LAW. I am not under the works of THE LAW. Why would God give us a New Covenant in Jesus' Blood if we are still under the works of THE LAW?
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]For as many as are of the works of THE LAW are under the curse;
Christians aren't under the Mosaic Law, however, they are under the Law that Christ brought.
Eccl you will never understand it until you make the distinction between the 10 commandments spoken and written by God and the Mosaic laws written by Moses to govern the people.
When God spoke the 10 they immediately became law that all creation was subject to. He spoke in the same manner when He spoke all creation into being.
When He spoke the 10 commandments it not only applied from that moment forward but also applied to everyone before they were spoken; from Adam to Moses. Now maybe you can understand what Paul wrote in Romans 5. That by one mans sin all were condemned to death. Now condemning everyone to death because of one mans sin is not a very fair proposition is it? and God completely understands that. As Paul also says in Romans 5 death rained from Adam to Moses. Those 10 laws that God had now spoke and written will / have been applied to all men from Adam to Moses, and to the ends of the earth. When He spoke, it became the law over all creation from beginning to end. They in effect have "thou not yet spoken from Adam to Mose" ...and will always be a part of Gods creation. In the same manner Jesus life on the cross did not simply apply from that moment forward but was also applied to all men from Adam to Mosses, it to applied to all of creation from beginning to end. So that they also will be saved by grace and not of works. It applied both to those before the law came, and after. Can you now see why the law came? Without it all men were condemned to death by Adams single sin. With it "the 10 laws" all men become accountable to Gods spoken law, the 10 commandments. With Jesus we are forgiven our transgression of the law, with out Jesus we suffer the penalty of the law, from Adam to the very end, the creation of the new heavens and earth.
The law of Moses is a completely different law written by Moses under the inspiration of God to govern the people. Moses wrote that the Levis were to place this law next to the Tabernacle "the ark that contained the 10 commandments " as a witness against the Hebrews. They never kept those laws and just as Moses said it became a witness against them, they did not keep those governing laws as God instructed them threw Moses. As you can see the law of Moses and the Law that God spoke into being are two completely different things. The Law that is written on the hearts you quoted in Jeremiah are the 10 commandments not the law of Moses.
I have a few questions.
What about the Sabbath?
How were all men condemned by Adam's one sin?
You said, that after the commandments were given they applied to those who lived prior. Yet, Paul said, sin is not imputed were there is no law. So, even though death reigned, their sin was not imputed to them. How then were they guilty?
If their sins were not imputed why did they need a savior?
