Maybe like the idea of beating a dead horse? It is useless waste of time, but you dont know right away that it is. Please continue to contend for the faith, but like Christ says if they do not receive you, wipe off the dust of the place from your feet and move on and God will bless you on your sojourning.
Awww, thank you--but yes, it seems like it may be at that point (or beyond it).
I would not call TULIP a hyper Calvinism, not even irresistible grace, although many do, God will not be denied His will and the sheep must be saved.
To me hyper means total robotic like existence, and we know Christ called his people friends and brothers
I agree, definitely not--TULIP is straight Calvinism. I feel that hyper-Calvinism is when the balanced view which Calvinism portrays of the scriptures (it is God and man, sovereign and free will and to us we just cannot understand how that can be with our finite minds. I see it that God is so incredibly awesome and his knowledge extends so far beyond what we can ever fathom that even though he has given us free will--and I must say again that it is with it's limits for no one can come to God les the Father draw him--he still has sovereign control over everything).
A great Scripture verse which defines this doctrine is in Genesis 50:20 where Joseph describes that what his brothers had done (sold him into slavery), they meant for evil but God meant it for good. God can take the evil actions of men and turn them into good for those who are his children.
the stone the builders rejected was Christ, but for the sheep, we must be saved as Christ says it is God's will none of those, He has given to Christ be lost, except for Judas Iscariot. That is the basis of OSAS which some say is a lie here in the thread.
I feel there is a backlash again the OSAS because it is often taught incorrectly (again, lacking the balance of God and man which is so vital to understand in God's revelation of himself). If a pastor tells a new Christian, "When you turn to Jesus you are saved and there is nothing that can change that" and the new Christian doesn't continue in the word, fails to go to church and essentially falls out of the way, he may believe he is still saved even though he goes out into the world actualizing the words spoke of by John in his first epistle, "They went out of us to make it known that they were not of us, because if they were of us they would not have went out of us".
OSAS always needs to be treated as a delicate doctrine, making sure the Christian understands the verse in Philippians, "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling, knowing it is Christ working in you to do his will".
Nevertheless, to brand OSAS as a lie is to falsify the word of God as he clearly has said that no one can take those whom the Father has given him out of his hand. The thing that needs to be shown as a lie is that everyone who confesses Christ may not actually be saved. We do not know who true believers are--only God knows the heart--we can only judge by their fruits and that is a limited judgment, the limitations being greater the less we know someone.
A theologian has said that there are four kinds of people in the world: Those who are saved and know it; those who are saved and do not know it; those who are not saved and know it; those who are not saved and do not know it.
The very reason why we are guided by Sola Scriptoria and not the wisdom of this world. If mans logic decides and not Gods Divine word than we be in a very dark place.
God has blessed us with logic which we are to utilize in striving to understand him. However, we must also realize that along with everything else in the world and all the faculties we possess, our logic has also been corrupted by sin and another superiorly important thing to realize is that our logic is finite as we are finite beings.
My understanding, since we must use logic to interpret God's word, is that should our logic come to any conclusion where God's word is contradictory then our logic must be wrong. Grail says that God's complete sovereignty and man's free will cannot be because they contradict one another. However, at the very least I and Prim and I feel others on here have shown Grail where in God's word he very clearly speaks of his sovereign control over everything and we agree that He also speaks of man's obligation to freely come to Him: He offers His free gift of grace to all.
Therefore, this cannot be a contradiction. They both must be true, else God's word would contradict itself and we realize that cannot be because God's word is absolute truth, the only absolute truth there is, and it is infallible, cannot lie and can never be wrong. Therefore, in conclusion we must realize that is is our own finite minds that cannot comprehend it.
We are not commanded by God to understand Him exhaustively. I understand that to be able to do that--understand God exhaustively--then we would also be god. If someone claims to be able to understand something which they believe is god exhaustively, I would claim that the god they understand is a figment of their imagination, because it can be contained within the limits of their own mind. The true God, rather, is infinite. What he gives us of Himself in His revelation is not an exhaustive explanation of Him. He give us what we need to know in order to be saved and what our duties are unto Him. That is it.
