How can we know that god exists?
- Thread starter Cybella
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Oh, and this one seems like guesswork to me as well:66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad [Gen 11:12] The father of Salah was Cainan [Luke 3:35,36] To me, this looks like a legitimate contradiction, although I suppose it is possible that this is the same person known by different names. After all, it is not uncommon for Biblical personages to have more than one name.
(RobinD69;43164)
Well we didnt just happen by chance.
Of course. As I stated before, the force of evolution has nothing at all to do with chance. What I am really looking for is some solid evidence in the existence of god. If he was there, wouldn't there be some telltale signs, some message writtten in the stars? Anything? And, if Christianity was true, would that not have been the world's first religion? I need some help, but is my search really all in vain? Is the proof that I am looking for nonexistent, because god is nonexistent? I really do not want to go to that conclusion, but I'm afraid I will have to soon if there is no evidence to be found.
Well we didnt just happen by chance.
Of course. As I stated before, the force of evolution has nothing at all to do with chance. What I am really looking for is some solid evidence in the existence of god. If he was there, wouldn't there be some telltale signs, some message writtten in the stars? Anything? And, if Christianity was true, would that not have been the world's first religion? I need some help, but is my search really all in vain? Is the proof that I am looking for nonexistent, because god is nonexistent? I really do not want to go to that conclusion, but I'm afraid I will have to soon if there is no evidence to be found.
Sorry for the short answer, I havent been here in a while. God is in the statistics. Take a container with all the parts to a chair. Shake well and toss it out. How many times will you have to do this before the chair is whole? Statistically never, but according to evolution that is precisely what happened for life to begin.Look into the science of all things, if the earth was to tilt on its axis just one degree life could not exist. If the moon was just one mile off of its course, life could not exist on earth. If the sun was just a little hotter or a little colder, life would not exist on earth.If the earth rotated just a little slower, no life. There are signs in the universe if you are willing to accept them. The birth of Christ was shown by a sign that have been proven in computer reconstruction of the universes movements shown a line up of the King star, the King planet,and the King universe at the precise time we believe Christ was born. This is what the Maji witnessed and what led them to Christ.Actually Christianity was the first religion and all other diverged from this original faith. Ofcousre it wasnt called Christianity, but look at the depiction of God and man in the Garden of Eden. It was a personal relationship, just as Christianity is. No other faith has a personal relationship with their High God. When sin entered the world, this was the beginning of man questioning God and rejecting Gods ways for mans ways. This went so far as to diverge all faiths into legalism and this led to God coming to us in the flesh to reestablish His connection with us thru His own sacrifice to cleanse us of our sins. He still seeks this relationship and we still reject Him thru sin. Only thru repentance and faith in Him and His ways can we hope to return to the relationship and be perfected in Him.The Bible is an excellent example of the power of God thru fullfilled prophecy and truths that we are slowly coming to realize that have been blinded by false teachings such as evolution.
Jerusalem Junkie
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Actually Christianity was the first religion and all other diverged from this original faith
Nope not at all...its actually born out of Judaism as is Islam...
Nope not at all...its actually born out of Judaism as is Islam...
(RobinD69;43179)
Sorry for the short answer, I havent been here in a while. God is in the statistics. Take a container with all the parts to a chair. Shake well and toss it out. How many times will you have to do this before the chair is whole? Statistically never, but according to evolution that is precisely what happened for life to begin.Look into the science of all things, if the earth was to tilt on its axis just one degree life could not exist. If the moon was just one mile off of its course, life could not exist on earth. If the sun was just a little hotter or a little colder, life would not exist on earth.If the earth rotated just a little slower, no life. There are signs in the universe if you are willing to accept them. The birth of Christ was shown by a sign that have been proven in computer reconstruction of the universes movements shown a line up of the King star, the King planet,and the King universe at the precise time we believe Christ was born. This is what the Maji witnessed and what led them to Christ.Actually Christianity was the first religion and all other diverged from this original faith. Ofcousre it wasnt called Christianity, but look at the depiction of God and man in the Garden of Eden. It was a personal relationship, just as Christianity is. No other faith has a personal relationship with their High God. When sin entered the world, this was the beginning of man questioning God and rejecting Gods ways for mans ways. This went so far as to diverge all faiths into legalism and this led to God coming to us in the flesh to reestablish His connection with us thru His own sacrifice to cleanse us of our sins. He still seeks this relationship and we still reject Him thru sin. Only thru repentance and faith in Him and His ways can we hope to return to the relationship and be perfected in Him.The Bible is an excellent example of the power of God thru fullfilled prophecy and truths that we are slowly coming to realize that have been blinded by false teachings such as evolution.
The universe has so many billions, if not trillions of planets, that the likelihood of at least one having the proper conditions for life is huge. Christianity was not the world's first religion, as the first humans worshipped nature spirits and a variety of gods. There is another question that I would like cleared up about Christianity. God and Jesus are the same entity, right? And so, why would it be necessary for god to kill an avatar of himself to save himself from sending people to the hell the he allows to exist due to sin that he himself created? I'm confused.
Sorry for the short answer, I havent been here in a while. God is in the statistics. Take a container with all the parts to a chair. Shake well and toss it out. How many times will you have to do this before the chair is whole? Statistically never, but according to evolution that is precisely what happened for life to begin.Look into the science of all things, if the earth was to tilt on its axis just one degree life could not exist. If the moon was just one mile off of its course, life could not exist on earth. If the sun was just a little hotter or a little colder, life would not exist on earth.If the earth rotated just a little slower, no life. There are signs in the universe if you are willing to accept them. The birth of Christ was shown by a sign that have been proven in computer reconstruction of the universes movements shown a line up of the King star, the King planet,and the King universe at the precise time we believe Christ was born. This is what the Maji witnessed and what led them to Christ.Actually Christianity was the first religion and all other diverged from this original faith. Ofcousre it wasnt called Christianity, but look at the depiction of God and man in the Garden of Eden. It was a personal relationship, just as Christianity is. No other faith has a personal relationship with their High God. When sin entered the world, this was the beginning of man questioning God and rejecting Gods ways for mans ways. This went so far as to diverge all faiths into legalism and this led to God coming to us in the flesh to reestablish His connection with us thru His own sacrifice to cleanse us of our sins. He still seeks this relationship and we still reject Him thru sin. Only thru repentance and faith in Him and His ways can we hope to return to the relationship and be perfected in Him.The Bible is an excellent example of the power of God thru fullfilled prophecy and truths that we are slowly coming to realize that have been blinded by false teachings such as evolution.
The universe has so many billions, if not trillions of planets, that the likelihood of at least one having the proper conditions for life is huge. Christianity was not the world's first religion, as the first humans worshipped nature spirits and a variety of gods. There is another question that I would like cleared up about Christianity. God and Jesus are the same entity, right? And so, why would it be necessary for god to kill an avatar of himself to save himself from sending people to the hell the he allows to exist due to sin that he himself created? I'm confused.
(Cybella;43165)
Oh, and this one seems like guesswork to me as well:66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad [Gen 11:12] The father of Salah was Cainan [Luke 3:35,36] To me, this looks like a legitimate contradiction, although I suppose it is possible that this is the same person known by different names. After all, it is not uncommon for Biblical personages to have more than one name.
A contradiction? More like a human error in the translation in God's Words that human did...I post that in my thread ages ago, but however there is no contradictions made by a Creator. Only a human can create a contradictions.
Oh, and this one seems like guesswork to me as well:66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad [Gen 11:12] The father of Salah was Cainan [Luke 3:35,36] To me, this looks like a legitimate contradiction, although I suppose it is possible that this is the same person known by different names. After all, it is not uncommon for Biblical personages to have more than one name.
A contradiction? More like a human error in the translation in God's Words that human did...I post that in my thread ages ago, but however there is no contradictions made by a Creator. Only a human can create a contradictions.
Jerusalem Junkie
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Cybella you seem to want to try an find contradiction in the scripture it ain't happening. There have been so many translations that only man himself will make the mistake. Read Jags post he says human error and thats what it is. Read the Bible through you will see there are no contradictions...........
(Cybella;43191)
The universe has so many billions, if not trillions of planets, that the likelihood of at least one having the proper conditions for life is huge.True Christianity was not the world's first religion, as the first humans worshipped nature spirits and a variety of gods.Not true, you are falling for the same old lie propugated by the evil one. Take a good look at Genesis, it is the true beginning and the relationship between God and man is very similar to that of true Christianity. There is another question that I would like cleared up about Christianity. God and Jesus are the same entity, right? And so, why would it be necessary for god to kill an avatar of himself to save himself from sending people to the hell the he allows to exist due to sin that he himself created? I'm confused.
I can see your confusion even in your question. God requires a perfect sacrifice to conteract the effects of sin. This is His choice and His plan. There has never been any perfect humans after the fall and God knew this would happen. So He created a body for Himself, lived as we did, and used this perfect human, avatar if you like, to cover all sin. You must understand that God presented these things in terms man could understand and accept, while man still rejected the ways of God. God did not create sin, sin came about by rebellion. God created hell for the angels who rebelled, and man makes the choice of whether to follow God or to follow those angels. Another words, you send yourself to hell by choosing your own ways rather than Gods ways.I hope this helps.
The universe has so many billions, if not trillions of planets, that the likelihood of at least one having the proper conditions for life is huge.True Christianity was not the world's first religion, as the first humans worshipped nature spirits and a variety of gods.Not true, you are falling for the same old lie propugated by the evil one. Take a good look at Genesis, it is the true beginning and the relationship between God and man is very similar to that of true Christianity. There is another question that I would like cleared up about Christianity. God and Jesus are the same entity, right? And so, why would it be necessary for god to kill an avatar of himself to save himself from sending people to the hell the he allows to exist due to sin that he himself created? I'm confused.
I can see your confusion even in your question. God requires a perfect sacrifice to conteract the effects of sin. This is His choice and His plan. There has never been any perfect humans after the fall and God knew this would happen. So He created a body for Himself, lived as we did, and used this perfect human, avatar if you like, to cover all sin. You must understand that God presented these things in terms man could understand and accept, while man still rejected the ways of God. God did not create sin, sin came about by rebellion. God created hell for the angels who rebelled, and man makes the choice of whether to follow God or to follow those angels. Another words, you send yourself to hell by choosing your own ways rather than Gods ways.I hope this helps.
(Two;43198)
Cybella you seem to want to try an find contradiction in the scripture it ain't happening. There have been so many translations that only man himself will make the mistake. Read Jags post he says human error and thats what it is. Read the Bible through you will see there are no contradictions...........
That was the point I was trying to make, how errors can occur in the "perfect word of god" by translation and retranslation. But, even if the Bible had no contradictions whatsoever, it still cannot prove that it is anything more than a book. That is why I am looking for proof from other sources.
Cybella you seem to want to try an find contradiction in the scripture it ain't happening. There have been so many translations that only man himself will make the mistake. Read Jags post he says human error and thats what it is. Read the Bible through you will see there are no contradictions...........
That was the point I was trying to make, how errors can occur in the "perfect word of god" by translation and retranslation. But, even if the Bible had no contradictions whatsoever, it still cannot prove that it is anything more than a book. That is why I am looking for proof from other sources.
(RobinD69;43199)
I can see your confusion even in your question. God requires a perfect sacrifice to conteract the effects of sin. This is His choice and His plan. There has never been any perfect humans after the fall and God knew this would happen. So He created a body for Himself, lived as we did, and used this perfect human, avatar if you like, to cover all sin. You must understand that God presented these things in terms man could understand and accept, while man still rejected the ways of God. God did not create sin, sin came about by rebellion. God created hell for the angels who rebelled, and man makes the choice of whether to follow God or to follow those angels. Another words, you send yourself to hell by choosing your own ways rather than Gods ways.I hope this helps.
But, there is so much physical proof that the first religion was that of nature sprits and a variety of gods. Take cave paintings, statues, the manner in which the dead were buried, ect. Just because the Bible says that the Garden of Eden existed does not make it so by itself. But, couldn't god just cancel out sin altogether? If he really loved us, why wouldn't he make his presence more clear so we all could be saved from hell. What about the yet undiscovered native tribes still living in the rainforest; will they all go to hell without getting the chance to change that, because they never heard about Jesus? That just does not seem fair at all. Doesn't an eternity of torture seem like a harsh punishment for being unsure about the existence of god, even while so little, if any evidence exists?
I can see your confusion even in your question. God requires a perfect sacrifice to conteract the effects of sin. This is His choice and His plan. There has never been any perfect humans after the fall and God knew this would happen. So He created a body for Himself, lived as we did, and used this perfect human, avatar if you like, to cover all sin. You must understand that God presented these things in terms man could understand and accept, while man still rejected the ways of God. God did not create sin, sin came about by rebellion. God created hell for the angels who rebelled, and man makes the choice of whether to follow God or to follow those angels. Another words, you send yourself to hell by choosing your own ways rather than Gods ways.I hope this helps.
But, there is so much physical proof that the first religion was that of nature sprits and a variety of gods. Take cave paintings, statues, the manner in which the dead were buried, ect. Just because the Bible says that the Garden of Eden existed does not make it so by itself. But, couldn't god just cancel out sin altogether? If he really loved us, why wouldn't he make his presence more clear so we all could be saved from hell. What about the yet undiscovered native tribes still living in the rainforest; will they all go to hell without getting the chance to change that, because they never heard about Jesus? That just does not seem fair at all. Doesn't an eternity of torture seem like a harsh punishment for being unsure about the existence of god, even while so little, if any evidence exists?
(Cybella;43204)
(Two;43198)
Cybella you seem to want to try an find contradiction in the scripture it ain't happening. There have been so many translations that only man himself will make the mistake. Read Jags post he says human error and thats what it is. Read the Bible through you will see there are no contradictions...........
That was the point I was trying to make, how errors can occur in the "perfect word of god" by translation and retranslation. But, even if the Bible had no contradictions whatsoever, it still cannot prove that it is anything more than a book. That is why I am looking for proof from other sources.What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
(Two;43198)
Cybella you seem to want to try an find contradiction in the scripture it ain't happening. There have been so many translations that only man himself will make the mistake. Read Jags post he says human error and thats what it is. Read the Bible through you will see there are no contradictions...........
That was the point I was trying to make, how errors can occur in the "perfect word of god" by translation and retranslation. But, even if the Bible had no contradictions whatsoever, it still cannot prove that it is anything more than a book. That is why I am looking for proof from other sources.What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
(thesuperjag;43208)
What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?
What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?
Jerusalem Junkie
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Jerusalem Junkie
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(RobinD69;43189)
Take a good honest look at the Garden of Eden.
I deleted my original post it would detract from the thread.....this in regards to Christianity being the first religion....
Take a good honest look at the Garden of Eden.
I deleted my original post it would detract from the thread.....this in regards to Christianity being the first religion....
(Cybella;43206)
But, there is so much physical proof that the first religion was that of nature sprits and a variety of gods. Take cave paintings, statues, the manner in which the dead were buried, ect. Just because the Bible says that the Garden of Eden existed does not make it so by itself.Many of the socalled evidence is not as old as is claimed. As well much of what has been misconstrued as nature worship in being found to be a divergent method of the worship of the one true God. As I have shared before most faiths of this world originated from one faith and they all have their roots in the original of the Bible. I know many like to discount the Bible, but it is being proven true everyday thru archeological findings. But, couldn't god just cancel out sin altogether? If he really loved us, why wouldn't he make his presence more clear so we all could be saved from hell. What about the yet undiscovered native tribes still living in the rainforest; will they all go to hell without getting the chance to change that, because they never heard about Jesus? That just does not seem fair at all. Doesn't an eternity of torture seem like a harsh punishment for being unsure about the existence of god, even while so little, if any evidence exists?
I understand your confusion,yes God could just cancel out sin and He will when His plan is fulfilled. How much clearer without compromising His justice. If one is born again, they have the Holy Spirit who speaks to them on a regular basis. The closer to the Lords plan, the clearer the message, but sin seperates us from God. Even born again Christians can be so blinded by sin that they cannot hear God speaking to them. I am not speaking of an audible voice, but of a deep seated consiousness. Yes sometimes it is an audible voice as well, but most times we are so wrapped up in ourselves we cannot here Him. As for hidden tribes, God has many ways of reaching them that we cannot understand. I have heard of people who have never heard of Jesus dreaming of Him and sharing those dreams with others and all believing in Christ without actually knowing His name. The Lord works in mysterious ways and He is not going to send someone to hell who hasnt had the opportunity to accept Him. Everyone is given the opportunity and God chooses the ways. There is plenty of evidence for the existance of God, it is just that we expect this evidence to be on our terms and not Gods. We are so often blinded by what we choose not to accept. The air in your lungs is evidence. Your very existance is evidence. The cycles of the world is evidence. I recommend a very good book, actually several good books that may help you to see the evidence of God. "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. "The Case For Easter" "The Case For Christ" "The Case For A Creator" and "The Case For Faith" all by Lee Strobel. There are many other books out there that are Bible based and can shine some light on the questions you have.
But, there is so much physical proof that the first religion was that of nature sprits and a variety of gods. Take cave paintings, statues, the manner in which the dead were buried, ect. Just because the Bible says that the Garden of Eden existed does not make it so by itself.Many of the socalled evidence is not as old as is claimed. As well much of what has been misconstrued as nature worship in being found to be a divergent method of the worship of the one true God. As I have shared before most faiths of this world originated from one faith and they all have their roots in the original of the Bible. I know many like to discount the Bible, but it is being proven true everyday thru archeological findings. But, couldn't god just cancel out sin altogether? If he really loved us, why wouldn't he make his presence more clear so we all could be saved from hell. What about the yet undiscovered native tribes still living in the rainforest; will they all go to hell without getting the chance to change that, because they never heard about Jesus? That just does not seem fair at all. Doesn't an eternity of torture seem like a harsh punishment for being unsure about the existence of god, even while so little, if any evidence exists?
I understand your confusion,yes God could just cancel out sin and He will when His plan is fulfilled. How much clearer without compromising His justice. If one is born again, they have the Holy Spirit who speaks to them on a regular basis. The closer to the Lords plan, the clearer the message, but sin seperates us from God. Even born again Christians can be so blinded by sin that they cannot hear God speaking to them. I am not speaking of an audible voice, but of a deep seated consiousness. Yes sometimes it is an audible voice as well, but most times we are so wrapped up in ourselves we cannot here Him. As for hidden tribes, God has many ways of reaching them that we cannot understand. I have heard of people who have never heard of Jesus dreaming of Him and sharing those dreams with others and all believing in Christ without actually knowing His name. The Lord works in mysterious ways and He is not going to send someone to hell who hasnt had the opportunity to accept Him. Everyone is given the opportunity and God chooses the ways. There is plenty of evidence for the existance of God, it is just that we expect this evidence to be on our terms and not Gods. We are so often blinded by what we choose not to accept. The air in your lungs is evidence. Your very existance is evidence. The cycles of the world is evidence. I recommend a very good book, actually several good books that may help you to see the evidence of God. "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. "The Case For Easter" "The Case For Christ" "The Case For A Creator" and "The Case For Faith" all by Lee Strobel. There are many other books out there that are Bible based and can shine some light on the questions you have.
(Cybella;43211)
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?
That is just it, we do not believe without question, we learn by questioning. We accept the Bible as the infallable word of God not by faith alone but by examining what God presents us with and growng in faith thru study.
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?
That is just it, we do not believe without question, we learn by questioning. We accept the Bible as the infallable word of God not by faith alone but by examining what God presents us with and growng in faith thru study.
(Two;43213)
Jag I hate to say this but you could go on forever with this...........
Believe me as I say this too, I hate it as I know it will take forever, so I only came to drop a post to see if I wake them up.(Cybella;43211)
(thesuperjag;43208)
What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?To tell you the Truth, with that reasoning of your own, you won't find God in your preconceived ideas. It doesn't work that way.
Jag I hate to say this but you could go on forever with this...........
Believe me as I say this too, I hate it as I know it will take forever, so I only came to drop a post to see if I wake them up.(Cybella;43211)
(thesuperjag;43208)
What source? The only source of Truth you will hear is from God. Why? Because there is none good, none righteous (Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, John 3:19) but God (Romans 3:4, I John 1:5)
But that is only because the Bible says it. Could I not write an entirely fictitious book, and then write "this book is entirely true and should be believed without question" in the cover and get the same effect?To tell you the Truth, with that reasoning of your own, you won't find God in your preconceived ideas. It doesn't work that way.
(thesuperjag;43221)
Believe me as I say this too, I hate it as I know it will take forever, so I only came to drop a post to see if I wake them up.To tell you the Truth, with that reasoning of your own, you won't find God in your preconceived ideas. It doesn't work that way.
I am beginning to think that the only way to find god is to abandon trying to find evidence, because the search is not turning up anything. Perhaps "god" is in science, as science gives the the answers and explanations that I cannot find elsewhere. There is no faith in science, as no faith is needed, but it has none of the comforting stories of heaven or an all-knowing father that loves me. Science seems all the more rational, but also more frightening in some respects.
Believe me as I say this too, I hate it as I know it will take forever, so I only came to drop a post to see if I wake them up.To tell you the Truth, with that reasoning of your own, you won't find God in your preconceived ideas. It doesn't work that way.
I am beginning to think that the only way to find god is to abandon trying to find evidence, because the search is not turning up anything. Perhaps "god" is in science, as science gives the the answers and explanations that I cannot find elsewhere. There is no faith in science, as no faith is needed, but it has none of the comforting stories of heaven or an all-knowing father that loves me. Science seems all the more rational, but also more frightening in some respects.
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