How can we know that god exists?

[Remagoen]

(Dukester;42822)
When I pray,I feel God,I sense him. Whenever I give God something,He repays me. You may say oh that just happened,then why does it keep happening,why yesterday when I wanted to go to church last night,and couldn't I prayed then my parents took me

Have you considered praying for other people, like amputees? Have they ever grew their arm back, like those cancer survivors that have miraculously been cured by prayer?I think that when I see an arm grow back after a prayer was given, I think that's when I'll definitely see through the darkness. But it's never happened yet...

 

[Cybella]

(kriss;42794)
What about temple Wall? there are thousands of historical facts in the Bible that have been proven through science of archaeology that are facts in fact it has never been wrong in the historical facts that have been proven.It rather defies common sense to believe it is so historcally right Yet parts are fabricated liesbecause some things are scenticfic realities also it proves nothing from our perspective gravity is God law of natureSo the fact men stumbled on it is no big deal It was God who created it Not men.
Yes, but the miraculous things that happened in the Bible cannot be proven. The holy books of other religions are also filled with things that can be verified as true.

 

[Christina]

like what? what miracles are you speaking of? are you joking you obviously havent a clue as to what you talking aboutYou ever read prophecy ? there a thread that list 60 and there are hundreds how do explain the very crucifiction right down to the soldiers gambling for Christs clothes prophesied 1000 years before it happened http://www.christianityboard.com/60-prophe...ents-t6215.htmland I was replying to physical evidence in my post in answer to the previous postheres some more if you are going to make claims perhaps you should know what you are talking about http://www.konig.org/page6.htm

 

[Christina]

(Remagoen;42829)
Have you considered praying for other people, like amputees? Have they ever grew their arm back, like those cancer survivors that have miraculously been cured by prayer?I think that when I see an arm grow back after a prayer was given, I think that's when I'll definitely see through the darkness. But it's never happened yet...
He is God not a magician if one loses an arm perhaps it is to make that person stronger spiritually or the results of his own stupidity if this is your judging criteria for God. You are playing god yourself do you know whats in another's heart how another should be tested? This isnt what God is about another assumption made out of ignorance.

 

[Remagoen]

(kriss;42927)
and I was replying to physical evidence in my post in answer to the previous postheres some more if you are going to make claims perhaps you should know what you are talking about http://www.konig.org/page6.htm
I referred to physical evidence as well. For instance, there is evidence that Herod had died before Jesus was born, which would explain the lack of physical evidence for the Slaughter of the Innocents.(kriss;42928)
He is God not a magician if one loses an arm perhaps it is to make that person stronger spiritually or the results of his own stupidity if this is your judging criteria for God. You are playing god yourself do you know whats in another's heart how another should be tested? This isnt what God is about another assumption made out of ignorance.
I don't think ignorance is the right word here. I understand that the word means, "lack of knowledge", but I disagree. You see, I've read many parts about the Bible, including those involving prayer, like this: Matthew 17:20. Here, is says that even if you have that tiny, tiny bit of faith, nothing is impossible to you. Is this "lack of knowledge" as you claim? Or is it "lack of understanding". If it's the former, please enlighten me with more knowledge. If it's the latter, please help me understand.However, how dare you call our soldiers around the world stupid by having their limbs blown or shot off while protecting our freedoms. You may want to reconsider that statement, kriss.Nevertheless, "perhaps" is the keyword. You don't know if it was to strengthen their spirituality or not. Even so, you can say the same about cancer, or even asthma like what I suffer from. God has given and cured people from both, from what I hear from Christians around me. If he can give someone cancer to strengthen their spirituality, and then cure them, surely he could blow someone's leg off, strengthen them spiritually, and then allow it to grow back.

 

[Cybella]

(kriss;42927)
like what? what miracles are you speaking of? are you joking you obviously havent a clue as to what you talking aboutYou ever read prophecy ? there a thread that list 60 and there are hundreds how do explain the very crucifiction right down to the soldiers gambling for Christs clothes prophesied 1000 years before it happened http://www.christianityboard.com/60-prophe...ents-t6215.htmland I was replying to physical evidence in my post in answer to the previous postheres some more if you are going to make claims perhaps you should know what you are talking about http://www.konig.org/page6.htm
The thing is, the miracles like turning water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, ect. have not been proven by historians, that is what I meant by that. Prophecies made in the Old Testament that are fullfilled in the New Testament cannot be counted as proof. The Bible has been copied by hand thousands of times in its life, and because of this it cannot be counted as reliable, just as the message at the end of a playground game of telephone is often very different from the first message. For example, let's say that a monk is making a copy of the Bible by writing it out by hand. If there is a prophecy in the Old Testament that says Christ will ride into a particular town on a donkey, and in the New Testament it says that he rode into that town on a camel, the monk will think there must have been some mistake made by the previous person who wrote out the book he was copying from. He would edit out the mistake to make it fit with the prophecy, because the monk would assume that The Word of God would always be correct. Also, would he not add in a prophesized section that had strangely been ommitted the the previous copier? Besides, other religions have their own prophecies that have been "fulfilled"- what makes the Bible different?

 

[Remagoen]

(Cybella;43001)
The thing is, the miracles like turning water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, ect. have not been proven by historians, that is what I meant by that.
Please allow me to piggy-back off this one...These miracles have never been recorded by historians for the same reason why you don't know what I'm eating for dinner right now. Even if I was to become a famous person, most likely no one would know what I'm eating unless I told someone or unless there was an eyewitness and firsthand account.I know I'm leaving his argument wide open to attack as "it was witnessed by the apostles", but historians are getting second hand information from them. No independent historian ever mentioned any of these, as Cybella as said.

 

[stlizzy]

(Cybella;42583)
I would like very much to believe that God exists, but I cannot seem to prove it to myself. Is there any proof for his existence, besides the Bible or "just faith"? I was brought up to be a Christian, but now that I am older I am more convinced by science than a preacher's words. Can anyone help me?
Well that's because you don't prove it to yourself. It works the other way around.... this sounds cryptic... I am sorry... I will add more if you want to know more...(Pildit;42676)
Religion is also just a theory. Both need facts, evidence and proof to back them up.
You are confusing RELIGION and JESUS CHRIST (who is REALITY... lol) ... mutually exclusive stuff...(You'll have to forgive my error just a minute ago... my English comes and goes because I am not speaking it all of the time.. it's kind of strange...)

 

[Christina]

(Cybella;43001)
The thing is, the miracles like turning water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, ect. have not been proven by historians, that is what I meant by that. Prophecies made in the Old Testament that are fullfilled in the New Testament cannot be counted as proof. The Bible has been copied by hand thousands of times in its life, and because of this it cannot be counted as reliable, just as the message at the end of a playground game of telephone is often very different from the first message. For example, let's say that a monk is making a copy of the Bible by writing it out by hand. If there is a prophecy in the Old Testament that says Christ will ride into a particular town on a donkey, and in the New Testament it says that he rode into that town on a camel, the monk will think there must have been some mistake made by the previous person who wrote out the book he was copying from. He would edit out the mistake to make it fit with the prophecy, because the monk would assume that The Word of God would always be correct. Also, would he not add in a prophesized section that had strangely been ommitted the the previous copier? Besides, other religions have their own prophecies that have been "fulfilled"- what makes the Bible different?
well again your reasoning makes little sense If I told you in 10 years you were going buy a red car and you do am I lying?and your idea of thousands of time being copied is another lie of men you have been told have you ever investigated it ?No, you just believe what ever you've heard thats not proof of anything.You keep saying other religions have porved miracless and prophicies give me examples or is this just what you have been toldor is it you are willing to believe those stroies because they are not Christain?

 

[Cybella]

(kriss;43025)
well again your reasoning makes little sense If I told you in 10 years you were going buy a red car and you do am I lying?and your idea of thousands of time being copied is another lie of men you have been told have you ever investigated it ?No, you just believe what ever you've heard thats not proof of anything.You keep saying other religions have porved miracless and prophicies give me examples or is this just what you have been toldor is it you are willing to believe those stroies because they are not Christain?
I know that the Bible has been copied thousands of times, because it has been well documented. Copying out books by hand was the only way to reproduce literature before the invention of the printing press. And no, I do not believe everthing I hear. if that were the case, I would be a Christian, Hindu, and Scientologist right now. I am not willing to believe stories of fulfilled prophecies in other religions because they are not Christian, I am simply showing that a fulfilled prophecy is not adequate proof in the existence of god. That is why I am looking for proof outside of holy texts.By the way, here are a few examples of nonChristian fulfilled prophecies:http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/hindusa.htmhttp://www.islamreligion.com/articles/379/

 

[Christina]

Do you realize that the hebrew greek manuscripts exist that you can take everyword of the KJB back to the original languge to check it do you realize when they found the dead scrolls that even though some of the manuscripts were thousands of years old they were virtully the same? do you realize you can read the orignal 1611 King James on line so the fact that it was recopied means nothing they all can be compared to the manuscripts. do you realize there are no contradictions in the Word. as I said you have no idea what you are talking about that is the standard laymens lie that is easily disproven with a few facts

 

[Remagoen]

kriss, I would like to see your response to my reply to you above.

 

[Cybella]

(kriss;43031)
Do you realize that the hebrew greek manuscripts exist that you can take everyword of the KJB back to the original languge to check it do you realize when they found the dead scrolls that even though some of the manuscripts were thousands of years old they were virtully the same? do you realize you can read the orignal 1611 King James on line so the fact that it was recopied means nothing they all can be compared to the manuscripts. do you realize there are no contradictions in the Word. as I said you have no idea what you are talking about that is the standard laymens lie that is easily disproven with a few facts
Firstly, much of the Dead Sea Scrolls are missing or incomplete due to the scrolls breaking down over time, but this is not the most important part. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain only parts of the Old Testament, not the new. It is the New Testament that was potentially altered to fit the old. The chance of change taking place and mistakes being made is huge, and so that is why I do not think holy texts can be used to prove the existence of god. The KJV has not changed much since 1611, because the printing press was invented in1439. Also, there are many MANY contradictions in the bible : http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...#contradictionsI am sorry, but it seems you are the one who has no idea of what they are talking about.

 

[Christina]

(Remagoen;42945)
I referred to physical evidence as well. For instance, there is evidence that Herod had died before Jesus was born, which would explain the lack of physical evidence for the Slaughter of the Innocents.I don't think ignorance is the right word here. I understand that the word means, "lack of knowledge", but I disagree. You see, I've read many parts about the Bible, including those involving prayer, like this: Matthew 17:20. Here, is says that even if you have that tiny, tiny bit of faith, nothing is impossible to you. Is this "lack of knowledge" as you claim? Or is it "lack of understanding". If it's the former, please enlighten me with more knowledge. If it's the latter, please help me understand.However, how dare you call our soldiers around the world stupid by having their limbs blown or shot off while protecting our freedoms. You may want to reconsider that statement, kriss.Nevertheless, "perhaps" is the keyword. You don't know if it was to strengthen their spirituality or not. Even so, you can say the same about cancer, or even asthma like what I suffer from. God has given and cured people from both, from what I hear from Christians around me. If he can give someone cancer to strengthen their spirituality, and then cure them, surely he could blow someone's leg off, strengthen them spiritually, and then allow it to grow back.
Well I dont know what history you read but in all I have studied I have never heard that about Herod so Im not buyng it secondly God is concerned for our soul not our physical body I frankly dont put much stock in so called healers. thirdly dont twist my words I said it could have been they may have lost a limb from their own stupidity I never said anything about any soldiers or accidents I was making an point with an example so your outrage at what I didnt say is unwarnted

 

[zadzial]

For those who have asked for sources of proof of God outside the Bible, please consider the follow:There is a general or universal revelation of God, accessible to all. Two possible sources of such revelation are: the natural world, and human experience.Various attempts have been made to prove the existence of God from observable facts of the natural world. Take a look at the world around you, and at the universe above you. Decide whether you think all this was created by chance or if there was a higher power behind it all. There is a lot of debate over this issue, but what do you believe in your heart? The Bible does not attempt to prove God's existence. However, it does on a number of occasions draw our attention to the wonder of creation and the way in which this witnesses to the glory and power of God. The problem is that sin has led to a darkening of our hearts so that we do not acknowledge our Creator. Other ways that we can know God are through spiritual experiences. Now these may not lead to God but can make us look beyond the natural world. Also throughout human history, religion has been a part of most - if not all - cultures. Again, these religions do not necessarily point to God but they do indicate a deep need within humans to find the Creator.General revelation is an inadequate way of knowing God, partly because the element of language is missing. We need language for relationship, especially where one of the partners is spirit. This is where the Bible comes in. The Bible is the Word of God. It is not just a work of humans, but is God-inspired. However, general revelation arouses human interest in the truth.So what makes Christianity different from other religions and why should we trust the Bible as the Word of God instead of any other religious text? The answer is simple - Jesus Christ. The way we respond to who Jesus is, what he came to earth to do, the meaning behind his death and resurrection, is what makes Christianity unique. Now, without getting into the Bible, what can be said about Jesus, was he a myth or was he real? There are various historical texts written by secular authors which indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus existed. These include: Josephus (37 ?- 101? AD, Jewish historian), Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian),Thallus (circa AD 52), Pliny the Younger (around 112 AD), The Talmud, Lucian (Greek writer).For more details check out the following links: http://www.carm.org/bible/extrabiblical_accounts.htm, and download talks by John Dickson at http://johndickson.org/talksNone of these provide conclusive evidence about Jesus, but they certainly do show that he existed.There is also a lot of archaeological evidence verifying the existence of Biblical cities. For more information check out the following link: http://www.carm.org/questions/evidence_archaeological.htmI may not have said everything as clearly as I wanted to but I hope this has helped answer some questions. If you would like more links to check out I can provide plenty more. Also for those that say there are heaps of contradictions there are heaps of websites that clear up most, if not all, of these "contradictions". See for example: http://skepticsannotatedbiblerespons.blogspot.com/

 

[Cybella]

(zadzial;43083)
For those who have asked for sources of proof of God outside the Bible, please consider the follow:There is a general or universal revelation of God, accessible to all. Two possible sources of such revelation are: the natural world, and human experience.Various attempts have been made to prove the existence of God from observable facts of the natural world. Take a look at the world around you, and at the universe above you. Decide whether you think all this was created by chance or if there was a higher power behind it all. There is a lot of debate over this issue, but what do you believe in your heart? The Bible does not attempt to prove God's existence. However, it does on a number of occasions draw our attention to the wonder of creation and the way in which this witnesses to the glory and power of God. The problem is that sin has led to a darkening of our hearts so that we do not acknowledge our Creator. Other ways that we can know God are through spiritual experiences. Now these may not lead to God but can make us look beyond the natural world. Also throughout human history, religion has been a part of most - if not all - cultures. Again, these religions do not necessarily point to God but they do indicate a deep need within humans to find the Creator.General revelation is an inadequate way of knowing God, partly because the element of language is missing. We need language for relationship, especially where one of the partners is spirit. This is where the Bible comes in. The Bible is the Word of God. It is not just a work of humans, but is God-inspired. However, general revelation arouses human interest in the truth.So what makes Christianity different from other religions and why should we trust the Bible as the Word of God instead of any other religious text? The answer is simple - Jesus Christ. The way we respond to who Jesus is, what he came to earth to do, the meaning behind his death and resurrection, is what makes Christianity unique. Now, without getting into the Bible, what can be said about Jesus, was he a myth or was he real? There are various historical texts written by secular authors which indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus existed. These include: Josephus (37 ?- 101? AD, Jewish historian), Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian),Thallus (circa AD 52), Pliny the Younger (around 112 AD), The Talmud, Lucian (Greek writer).For more details check out the following links: http://www.carm.org/bible/extrabiblical_accounts.htm, and download talks by John Dickson at http://johndickson.org/talksNone of these provide conclusive evidence about Jesus, but they certainly do show that he existed.There is also a lot of archaeological evidence verifying the existence of Biblical cities. For more information check out the following link: http://www.carm.org/questions/evidence_archaeological.htmI may not have said everything as clearly as I wanted to but I hope this has helped answer some questions. If you would like more links to check out I can provide plenty more. Also for those that say there are heaps of contradictions there are heaps of websites that clear up most, if not all, of these "contradictions". See for example: http://skepticsannotatedbiblerespons.blogspot.com/
It is true that there has been a god or gods in every culture of the world, but this does not prove the existence of a god or gods. Man by nature is superstitious, because man by nature wants to know answers. If a caveman thousands of years ago wanted to know why the sky is blue or why bad things happen to good people, the caveman would not know the answers. He would still want to know the answers, and so he would default to "The Great Juju on the Mountain" did it. The belief in a god or gods would also comfort this said caveman when his children were eaten by sabertooth tigers. Spiritual experiences do not prove anything to me, because they are so hard to confirm. People always talk about how they can just feel god when they pray, but that has never happened to me. I have prayed during times of fear and desperation with all of my heart, begging god to show me that he is there. I have neither felt nor seen him. All it would take for me to believe in him would be the tiniest hint from him that he was there, but I have gotten none no matter how long and hard I have prayed. Now, if he really does exist, wouldn't that mean I'm going to hell? Doesn't that make god kind of a meanie for not taking one second to show me he is there if it would save me? That is why spiritual experience does nothing for me.While the universe is indeed a wondrous place, it has been shown by science that it all could have been created naturally by evolution. Now, I know most of you think that evolution is a blind, random operation, but evolution is the exact opposite of random. The best traits for any particular organism survive, and the others do not. So on it goes through time, until the life form is (nearly) perfectly adapted for the environment. Now, but using the Law of Occam's Razor, would not the creation of life as proposed by science be more likely than the Intelligent Design proposed by creationists that has no observable proof?Jesus probably existed in one form or another, but the miracles attributed to him cannot be proven. Saying that Jesus makes Christianity different is like saying that Muhammad makes Islam different. But, back to the original purpose of this thread. Is there any observable proof to the existence of any creator whatsoever?

 

[Cybella]

Hey kriss, I would like to see your response to my reply to you above

 

[Christina]

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

"Since I don't know with certainty that G-d exists", I can't believe in Him. Rather, a person should look at the evidence for G-d's existence and see if it's more likely to be true than not.
This is from an online course I am taking felt it kind of applied here....

 

[Cybella]

While many of the contradiction's explanations seem sound, there are quite a few that are based on assumptions and adding too much of the author's own explanation. The result is a lot of fuzzy guesswork. Thake this for example:57. There is an unpardonable sin "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of an everlasting sin." [Mark 3:29]There is not unpardonable sin "And from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, in this One everyone who believes is justified." [Acts 13:39]Note that the critic is relying on a particular interpretation of Acts 13, as it doesn't clearly say there is no unpardonable sin. It merely says that those who believe are justified. Now, Jesus' teaching may be descriptive in essense - those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit are those who never believe. That is, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit may be a symptom of a heart which is in such rebellion that it never yeilds to the call of the Holy Spirit. It is also possible that blaspheming the Spirit may simply be rejecting His call. Or at the very least, those who blaspheme the Spirit are ones who rebel against Him. Recall that the Spirit is sent to bring us into the Truth and convict us of sin. Those who would blaspheme the Spirit obviously rebel against Him, thus reject salvation. Thus, how could they be saved?