How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[veteran]

John was straitening out the misunderstanding that a single antichrist will come.

Like He said "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets"

Not one but many.

Which includes all of the false Christs being taught today for a love offering "of their God, money".

The subject context of Matt.24:24 is singular, since if you read the verses before and after, it nails the tense down about a singular false one...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

The "false Christs" phrase is Greek pseudochristos (5580). It's made up of the Greek words 'pseudo' and 'Christos'. And Christos in the Greek is... singular.

Likewise with "false prophets", it's the sole Greek word pseudoprophetes (5578), from pseudo and prophetes (singular). It's the same Greek word for "false prophet" in Rev.16:13; 19:20; 20:10; Acts 13:6. You'll also find places where pseudoprophetes is rendered plural. But it's the subject of verses 23 & 26 that help us narrow verse 24 down about a singular false Christ, along with 2 Thess.2 and Rev.13.


The context Christ gave there is the same that Apostle Paul gave with the false one of 2 Thess.2, and also by Christ again through John in Rev.13 about the "another beast" that sets up the image of the beast. John understood this, and so did those that he said had heard that "antichrist" (singular) shall come. It's because that was one of the specific warnings for the last days Christ gave His Apostles.

There's no way to treat the Matt.24:23 & 26 verses in the plural sense concerning the false one Christ told us to not believe on.


So where did John get the "many antichrists" idea from for the last phrase of 1 John 2:18? The same place where Paul got the idea of the "mystery of iniquity" from, i.e., the Old Testament Scriptures. The mystery of iniquity idea is about the 'crept in unawares' of Jude; the "tares" idea our Lord gave in His parable of the tares of the field. The singular 'antichrist' is Satan himself. His followers are the "many antichrists".

 

[us2are1]

The subject context of Matt.24:24 is singular, since if you read the verses before and after, it nails the tense down about a singular false one...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

The "false Christs" phrase is Greek pseudochristos (5580). It's made up of the Greek words 'pseudo' and 'Christos'. And Christos in the Greek is... singular.

Likewise with "false prophets", it's the sole Greek word pseudoprophetes (5578), from pseudo and prophetes (singular). It's the same Greek word for "false prophet" in Rev.16:13; 19:20; 20:10; Acts 13:6. You'll also find places where pseudoprophetes is rendered plural. But it's the subject of verses 23 & 26 that help us narrow verse 24 down about a singular false Christ, along with 2 Thess.2 and Rev.13.


The context Christ gave there is the same that Apostle Paul gave with the false one of 2 Thess.2, and also by Christ again through John in Rev.13 about the "another beast" that sets up the image of the beast. John understood this, and so did those that he said had heard that "antichrist" (singular) shall come. It's because that was one of the specific warnings for the last days Christ gave His Apostles.

There's no way to treat the Matt.24:23 & 26 verses in the plural sense concerning the false one Christ told us to not believe on.


So where did John get the "many antichrists" idea from for the last phrase of 1 John 2:18? The same place where Paul got the idea of the "mystery of iniquity" from, i.e., the Old Testament Scriptures. The mystery of iniquity idea is about the 'crept in unawares' of Jude; the "tares" idea our Lord gave in His parable of the tares of the field. The singular 'antichrist' is Satan himself. His followers are the "many antichrists".

There is only One (singular) True Christ. But the imposters are many read the scripture again. The false Christs have been preached by the thousands long before you were born. All of the imposters and their messengers are the adversary (satan).

 

[veteran]

There is only One (singular) True Christ. But the imposters are many read the scripture again. The false Christs have been preached by the thousands long before you were born. All of the imposters and their messengers are the adversary (satan).

To make the mistake of thinking that the 'followers of the devil' ARE the devil himself, is to declare that Satan is not a real entity.

Might want to consider that point regardless of who you've been listening to about the 1 John 2:18 verse not including a singular antichrist person.

In Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, God gave parables to point to how the heavenly cherub Satan first rebelled against Him in the beginning. Satan, who has many titles per God's Word, is a real entity, an actual heavenly created being. All of God's Word testifies to this fact of Satan being a real entity, and that IS Christian Doctrine of Christ's Church through Christ's Apostles.

It is specifically the pagan schools of esoterica that denies that Satan is a real entity today. So that's where that kind of idea originated with them.

 

[us2are1]

To make the mistake of thinking that the 'followers of the devil' ARE the devil himself, is to declare that Satan is not a real entity.

Might want to consider that point regardless of who you've been listening to about the 1 John 2:18 verse not including a singular antichrist person.

In Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, God gave parables to point to how the heavenly cherub Satan first rebelled against Him in the beginning. Satan, who has many titles per God's Word, is a real entity, an actual heavenly created being. All of God's Word testifies to this fact of Satan being a real entity, and that IS Christian Doctrine of Christ's Church through Christ's Apostles.

It is specifically the pagan schools of esoterica that denies that Satan is a real entity today. So that's where that kind of idea originated with them.

Satan is the Hebrew word for adversary. That is all that it means and nothing more. There was never any reason except fear of the holy roman catholic church to have the words Satan or Angel or Devil in the bible. Here is a bad translation followed by a good translation of Matthew 16:23 using the word satan that should have been translated.

Matthew 16 KJV
23 But he turned , and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Matthew 16 YLT
23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'

 

[veteran]

Satan is the Hebrew word for adversary. That is all that it means and nothing more. There was never any reason except fear of the holy roman catholic church to have the words Satan or Angel or Devil in the bible. Here is a bad translation followed by a good translation of Matthew 16:23 using the word satan that should have been translated.

Matthew 16 KJV
23 But he turned , and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Matthew 16 YLT
23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'

Then you are terribly deceived by the heavenly cherub named Satan, and already in his hand.

 

[us2are1]

Then you are terribly deceived by the heavenly cherub named Satan, and already in his hand.

Humor me veteran
Why did Christ call Peter satan then? Why did Christ say to Peter "You love the things of man and are not mindful of the things of God"? what would a Heavenly being care about the things of man? It is apparent that Christ was chastizing Peter for the way he was acting. He was being an adversary.

 

[teamventure]

it's because the devil was speaking through him..

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

I hope no one minds if I bend this thread backwards to address the false doctrine of a seven year tribulation.

Revelation 13:5 says the duration is only 42 months, but many have errantly attributed Daniel's seventieth week as the tribulation event. Thus the so called "seven year tribulation". Unfortunately this 9th Chapter of Daniel seventy years has NOTHING to do with the tribulation, except that AFTER the seventieth ~week~ (understood as the inconcise Masculine gender text shabuwa), shall come the destroyer.

So if we are to believe Scripture instead of lore, then we need to determine the veracity or lack thereof of this 9th Chapter interpretation which so many errantly present. And in this effort, I've provided multiple opinions by the best minds in scholarship (including Young, Kiel, Kliefoth, Montgomery, Newton, Scalinger, etc.), but also would like to present an interesting paragraph by the“New Bible Commentary: Revised.”

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”​

Note: According to the dictionary a legion consists of 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers, and 300 to 700 cavalry.

​

Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699​

Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary - 2nd ed, p. 1035


Thus we can certainly find multiple honest brokers of the difficulty in an ancient fulfillment (which is supposed to start at ~483 B.C.) . As such I would instead propose that we should be looking for a fulfillment which is approximate ot 1948, in accordance with the angelic instructions from Daniel 12:4 & 9.




BibleScribe​

 

[us2are1]

it's because the devil was speaking through him..

That is not possible because of the content of the scripture. You didn't address the part about "the things of man". Christ was definately talking to a man (Peter) and not a supernatural entity.

 

[teamventure]

so what's your point? that jews are Satan?

 

[us2are1]

so what's your point? that jews are Satan?

Satan is a Hebrew word that only means adversary of God.

 

[veteran]

We don't have to rely on naming conventions for the devil to know he is a real entity...

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(KJV)

 

[us2are1]

We don't have to rely on naming conventions for the devil to know he is a real entity...

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(KJV)

God was mocking a man in that scripture. That man corrupted himself by the multitude of his trading.

2 "Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you are a man, and not a god,
5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches, And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),"
16 "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned;
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading

 

[veteran]

God was mocking a man in that scripture. That man corrupted himself by the multitude of his trading.

2 "Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you are a man, and not a god,
5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches, And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),"
16 "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned;
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading

Since when is a 'cherub' a flesh man?

 

[pompadour]

Hello. I'm new this forum. Charles baker, I'm sure happy to see you are still hanging around. Joshua David, I think it will be less then ten yrs.

I believe the pre-trib is necessary to remove the restrainer ( the Holy Spirit ) before the man of sin can be reviled.

Jesus said, I will never leave you or forsake you. Jesus lives IN ever believer. The restrainer is removed - the believer go's with.

Rockytopva , may I call you Rocky ? Math. 24:33-37 You touched on one point I just recently ran across in an article, that to me was very profound.

of coarse I have read Math. 24 many times, but the author highlighted the importance of it. As it was in the days of Noah. They were eating, drinking, buying, selling. every thing was going along just fine. then Noah entered the Ark.

In the news yesterday the EU central bank said that the world could have a financial claps in the next 2 or 3 weeks, unless something is done soon to fix the problem. that would cause a world wide depression. that would not be like the days of Noah any more. I think the rapture maybe so close we could smell it.

I'm not making any predictions for the next 3 weeks but, we are not 10 yrs away from the rapture.

Pomp.

 

[us2are1]

Since when is a 'cherub' a flesh man?

First forget all that the Catholics have taught you about angels and cherubs. For that matter about everything. Cherub is a Hebrew word that means guardian.

Hello. I'm new this forum. Charles baker, I'm sure happy to see you are still hanging around. Joshua David, I think it will be less then ten yrs.

I believe the pre-trib is necessary to remove the restrainer ( the Holy Spirit ) before the man of sin can be reviled.

Jesus said, I will never leave you or forsake you. Jesus lives IN ever believer. The restrainer is removed - the believer go's with.

Rockytopva , may I call you Rocky ? Math. 24:33-37 You touched on one point I just recently ran across in an article, that to me was very profound.

of coarse I have read Math. 24 many times, but the author highlighted the importance of it. As it was in the days of Noah. They were eating, drinking, buying, selling. every thing was going along just fine. then Noah entered the Ark.

In the news yesterday the EU central bank said that the world could have a financial claps in the next 2 or 3 weeks, unless something is done soon to fix the problem. that would cause a world wide depression. that would not be like the days of Noah any more. I think the rapture maybe so close we could smell it.

I'm not making any predictions for the next 3 weeks but, we are not 10 yrs away from the rapture.

Pomp.

If you are waiting for a rapture you are in for a big let down. There is no rapture in the Bible therefore a rapture will not come.

Harpazo means taken by force not taken to heaven.

 

[veteran]

First forget all that the Catholics have taught you about angels and cherubs. For that matter about everything. Cherub is a Hebrew word that means guardian.

I'm not a Catholic, and you're putting out a falsehood about the meaning of the word "cherub" in God's Word. We don't need a Hebrew scholar to know it only applies to a heavenly being...


Gen 3:24
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
(KJV)

Cherubims (heruwb) is rendered there in the plural sense.


Exod 25:17-20
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
(KJV)

What's really laughable is when the supposed learned try to say a cherub only means a statue, simply because of those images God told Israel to make upon the ark of the covenant. Well, He told Israel to make those images because they REPRESENT something in the Heavenly.

Right there is revealed the job of the cherubs was to cover the Mercy Seat which represents God's Throne.


Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(KJV)

Let's see, was Pharaoh ever in God's Garden of Eden? No. What about the kings of Assyria? No. What about the kings of Babylon? No. Well has any flesh king ever been in God's Garden of Eden? No. Who then? Duh... that old serpent was, called Satan and the devil (Rev.12:9).

Since you believe this originates from Catholics, you must be a Jew, right? Lots... of Jews deny this very matter, so it would figure.

 

[popeye]

Pomp-

You should be preparing yourself for coming persecution - great persecution - as in a "great tribulation". Forget The Rapture....it will come....but it may very well be likely that by the time it does come, your spirit will be waiting to reunite with your formerly-dead, but resurrected body - your spirit coming from a place for souls that no one truly knows the location of. In other words, by the time The Rapture takes place, you will likely be dead...and if not....you may be languishing in dangerous conditions in some prison somewhere, for Christians.....waiting to go to the slaughter.

Incidentally, when we are all thrown into prison for refusing "The Mark", we won't care if our cell mates are Catholics, Jew or Protestants, because we will all be members of the family of God for our simple refusal to accept The Mark. So, we will NEVER be alone. We will go to the slaughter together, as followers of Jesus Christ, and devote believers in God The Father Almighty!

 

[BibleScribe]

Pomp-

You should be preparing yourself for coming persecution - great persecution - as in a "great tribulation". Forget The Rapture....it will come....but it may very well be likely that by the time it does come, your spirit will be waiting to reunite with your formerly-dead, but resurrected body - your spirit coming from a place for souls that no one truly knows the location of. In other words, by the time The Rapture takes place, you will likely be dead...and if not....you may be languishing in dangerous conditions in some prison somewhere, for Christians.....waiting to go to the slaughter.

Incidentally, when we are all thrown into prison for refusing "The Mark", we won't care if our cell mates are Catholics, Jew or Protestants, because we will all be members of the family of God for our simple refusal to accept The Mark. So, we will NEVER be alone. We will go to the slaughter together, as followers of Jesus Christ, and devote believers in God The Father Almighty!

Wise words, -- and if I might add, Rev. 20 says the dead are raised after the thousand years are ended, (Rev. 20:12-13). And 1 Thess. 4:16-17 says the living aren't taken because the dead shall arise first.

And finally, if I might suggest, -- the "right hand" and "forehead" have commonality, -- i.e., they confirm each other. They represent the ability to validate your identity either by a palm scan (right hand -- ONLY), or lacking that appendage, a retinal scan.



BibleScribe

 

[pompadour]

us2r1. we have a different take on scripture. but thank you for your comment.

could you explain, the parable of the 10 virgins? they seam to represent the (bride ) church 5 taken 5 left ( behind ) how does " harpazo " apply to this ?

could you explain, In Rev. the woman was given the wings of a great eagle and she was carried into the wilderness for the remainder of the tribulation hidden from the dragon. and the remnant of her seed was LEFT BEHIND to be persecuted by the dragon. Did the great eagle sink its talons ( harpazo ) into the woman's head and Carrie her bloody and bleeding into the wilderness for her own good?

Popeye, I'm far more prepared then you could know. ( not a putdown ) as for dieing during the Trib it's not a concern for me. let me explain.

when I was about 10yrs old the Holy Spirit, in a very profound way told me that I will be alive when Jesus returns. I don't know why, ( I could elaborate if someone is interested )

Pomp.