How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[bdavidc]

mt 25 what does the talents represent? grace or eternal salvation?

thks

In Matthew 25, the talents represent what the master entrusted to his servants. They are not eternal salvation itself. The text says the master “delivered unto them his goods” ~Matthew 25:14. That is stewardship. They were accountable for what belonged to him.

The faithful servants proved faithful with what was entrusted to them. The wicked servant did not simply “fail to earn enough.” His own words exposed his heart. He said, “Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man” ~Matthew 25:24. He had a false view of his master, hid what was entrusted to him, and was called “wicked and slothful” ~Matthew 25:26.

So no, Matthew 25 does not teach that eternal life is temporary life. It teaches that a true servant is faithful, and a false servant is exposed. That lines up with what I have been saying all along. Works reveal the heart. They do not purchase salvation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. Matthew 25 does not cancel that. It warns against empty profession and unfaithful stewardship. The wicked servant did not lose eternal life. He was exposed as wicked.

 

[bdavidc]

Romans 8:1, 1 John 1:6-7

sin cause the loss of grace and union with God!

gal 5 shall not inherit the kingdom of God!

depart from iniquity or depart from Jesus Christ!

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

2 tim 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM
INIQUITY.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do INIQUITY.

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

thks

You are still answering something I am not arguing. I have never said sin is harmless. I have never said a man can live in iniquity and still have biblical assurance. I have said the opposite. If a man walks in darkness, loves sin, and will not repent, I would not comfort him. I would warn him.

But warning against iniquity is not the same thing as saying eternal life is temporary life.

Matthew 7:23 actually proves the point. Jesus does not say, “I knew you, then stopped knowing you.” He says, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” That is not a saved man becoming lost. That is a false professor being exposed.

Second Timothy 2:19 says the same thing. “The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” Both truths stand together. The Lord knows His own, and His own are called to depart from iniquity. That does not teach saved, lost, saved, lost.

Galatians 5 warns that those who live in the works of the flesh “shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” I believe that. But Paul is not saying Christ gives eternal life in John 10 and then takes it back every time a believer stumbles. He is warning that a life dominated by the flesh exposes a person as outside the kingdom.

Romans 6:19 also does not teach loss of eternal life. It teaches believers not to yield themselves to sin, but to righteousness. That is sanctification. Paul already said in the same chapter, “sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” ~Romans 6:14.

The issue is still the same. You keep quoting verses that condemn sin as if they cancel the promises of Christ. They do not. I believe every warning against sin. I also believe Jesus when He said of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

A man living in iniquity has no right to claim assurance. But Christ’s sheep are not kept by pretending sin does not matter. They are kept by the power of God, corrected by the Father, brought to repentance, and made to endure. That is why eternal life is still eternal life, not probation.

 

[faithhopecharity]

That still does not answer the verses. Eternal life is not something God gives after we prove we were faithful enough. Scripture says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. A gift is not a wage.

Yes, true grace changes a man. Grace is not a license to sin. But faithfulness is the evidence of grace, not the price we pay to keep eternal life.

Jesus did not say, “I give them eternal life if they stay faithful enough.” He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

That is the issue. You keep turning eternal life into temporary life and grace into probation.

Grace questions

#1

Jn 15:1-6

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

a) If we were in Christ and are cast in the fire did we lose the grace of God or salvation?

b) How do we abide in Christ?

Jn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

#2

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

a) do we have eternal salvation and eternal salvation more abundantly?

b) or grace, and grace more abundantly?

#3

Mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

do we have eternal salvation to be on the narrow road that leads to eternal salvation?

#4

Mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Why are we promised eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

#5

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

a) Why have hope of eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

b) does eternal security oppose
the virture of Hope and the holy Spirit of promise?

thks

 

[JimKnox]

This is a question I hate. Advocates say you should be 100% confidant but that doesn't seem humble to me.

How confidant are you? What does that say about your humility?

Hmmm...
Paul, Peter, John, James, etc were confident.
I will followed their lead. My confidence is not in myself but rather it is in my Saviour 100%.

You do what you want with that.

 

[faithhopecharity]

That still does not answer the verses. Eternal life is not something God gives after we prove we were faithful enough. Scripture says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. A gift is not a wage.

Yes, true grace changes a man. Grace is not a license to sin. But faithfulness is the evidence of grace, not the price we pay to keep eternal life.

Jesus did not say, “I give them eternal life if they stay faithful enough.” He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

That is the issue. You keep turning eternal life into temporary life and grace into probation.

no we receive the grace of God now with justification and the righteousness of Christ participating in sanctification and perseverance unto the end, then death judgement and eternal salvation unto those who have been found faithful to Christ and are in a state of grace!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

That still does not answer the verses. Eternal life is not something God gives after we prove we were faithful enough. Scripture says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. A gift is not a wage.

Yes, true grace changes a man. Grace is not a license to sin. But faithfulness is the evidence of grace, not the price we pay to keep eternal life.

Jesus did not say, “I give them eternal life if they stay faithful enough.” He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

That is the issue. You keep turning eternal life into temporary life and grace into probation.

grace does cause our perseverance!

thks

 

[JimKnox]

Do you consider knowing God to be an equivalent expression? Scripture says even the Demons believe and know God.

Also, Scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. How do you reconcile that with having no doubt?

Beware when you add to Scriptures.

 

[faithhopecharity]

only not to the born again believer?

tradition not scripture

thks

 

[JimKnox]

no we receive the grace of God now with justification and the righteousness of Christ participating in sanctification and perseverance unto the end, then death judgement and eternal salvation unto those who have been found faithful to Christ and are in a state of grace!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

thks

That smells like Catholicism.

 

[faithhopecharity]

You are still doing the same thing. You are taking every warning passage and forcing it to mean a born again believer can be justified, sealed, given eternal life, passed from death unto life, and then be damned again. That is not what the text says.

Yes, a believer continues believing. I am not arguing for a faith that rejects Christ and still claims salvation. But the question is why the true believer continues. Scripture does not say he keeps himself saved by his own strength. It says God keeps him. Peter said believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” ~1 Peter 1:5. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, He knows them, they follow Him, and He gives them eternal life. Then He says, “they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. That is eternal life.

You quoted Romans 8:1, but you are using it backward. Paul is not saying a man is saved only as long as he performs well enough not to fall back into condemnation. He starts the chapter with “no condemnation” and then explains why. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” ~Romans 8:2. Then he says those who are in the flesh cannot please God, but believers are not in the flesh if the Spirit of God dwells in them ~Romans 8:8-9. That is identity, not a revolving door of saved, lost, saved, lost.

First John 1:6-7 is not teaching loss of salvation either. John is exposing false claims. If a man says he has fellowship with God while walking in darkness, he is lying. I would tell that man to repent and stop pretending. But John does not say a born again man loses eternal life every time he sins. In the same chapter he says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins” ~1 John 1:9. And then he says, “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ~1 John 2:1.

That is the part you keep missing. The believer has an Advocate. The believer is corrected. The believer is chastened. The believer repents. But the believer is not unborn from God every time he stumbles.

Ephesians 5:6 says the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. I believe that. The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God. But Paul is warning believers not to be deceived by the empty words of the wicked, not teaching that Christ’s sheep become goats and then sheep again.

First Timothy 5:12 does not overturn John 5:24, John 10:28, Romans 8:1, Ephesians 1:13-14, or Philippians 1:6. You cannot take a passage about younger widows casting off their first faith and use it to cancel the plain promise of Christ that the believer “shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

The real issue is simple. You keep turning warnings into a denial of Christ’s promises. I believe the warnings. I also believe the promises. The warnings expose false profession, call believers to holiness, and show that sin is deadly serious. But they do not teach that eternal life is temporary life.

If a man walks in darkness and loves his sin, I would not comfort him with assurance. I will tell him to repent and examine himself. But I will not tell Christ’s sheep that their Shepherd gives them eternal life and they can still perish. Jesus said they shall never perish. I believe Him.

I think this is where the confusion keeps coming in. Some people hear eternal security and think we are saying anyone who mouths the words “I believe” is saved, even if they keep thinking the same way, living the same way, loving the same sin, and showing no evidence of being born again.

That is not what I am saying.

A false profession does not save anybody. Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” ~Matthew 7:21. So yes, there are people who say the right words and are still lost. They did not lose salvation. They never had it.

That is very different from saying a truly born again believer can be justified, sealed by the Spirit, given eternal life, passed from death unto life, and then end up condemned again.

The warnings are real. Sin is serious. False converts are real. But none of that changes what Jesus said about His sheep: “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

proof you can be born again, justified, new creation, having passed from death to life, and have your name written in the book of life and still be eternally lost!

phil 4:3
whose names are in the book of life.

rev 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now twist that!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I did not say believers are already perfected in glory. That is not the argument.

Yes, weakness remains. Yes, the flesh must be mortified. Yes, glorification is still future. But you keep taking the future completion of salvation and using it to deny the present possession of eternal life. Scripture does not do that.

Jesus did not say, “He that believeth may one day have everlasting life if he maintains it.” He said, “He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47). Present possession.

John 5:24 says the believer “hath everlasting life,” “shall not come into condemnation,” and “is passed from death unto life.” That is not just a future hope. That is a present reality grounded in Christ.

You quoted Ephesians 1:14, but the verse does not help your position. The Spirit is “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.” An earnest is not an empty promise. It is God’s guarantee. The inheritance is future in its fullness, but the believer is already sealed now. Ephesians 1:13 says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.”

First Peter 1:4 says the inheritance is “reserved in heaven for you,” but the next verse says believers “are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” (1 Peter 1:5). You keep talking like the inheritance is reserved, but the heir may still be lost. Peter says the inheritance is reserved and the believer is kept by God’s power.

Colossians 1:12 also says the Father “hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.” It does not say we are trying to make ourselves meet by staying above your invented line. God has made us meet in Christ.

Yes, “in the world to come eternal life” is true (Mark 10:30). That is the full enjoyment and final revealing of what God has promised. But that does not cancel John 6:47, John 5:24, 1 John 5:11-13, or Ephesians 1:13-14. The Bible teaches both present possession and future completion.

That is the part you keep missing.

We are not glorified yet. But the born again believer already belongs to Christ. He has eternal life now. He is sealed now. He is justified now. He is kept by God now. And he will be glorified because God finishes what He starts.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

everlasting life is grace the life God that Chridt shares with us but not fully!

same term has different meaning!

"eternal life"

((eternal life refers to grace))

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((eternal life refers to eternal salvation))

mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


((promise of eternal salvation))

mk 13:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 10:22
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


((union))

Ps 23:4 Thou art with me...
Isa 53:3 by His stripes (wounds) we are healed.
Jn 1:16 life of grace
Jn 10:10 life of grace
Jn 14:6 life of grace
Jn 15:1-5 abide in me...

1 Jn 1:6-7

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((refers to a state of grace))

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ
1 cor 13:2 grace
1 cor 15:1
2 cor 9:14


((grace))

grace is life of God that Christ shares with us!

2 pet 1:2-4

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 cor 13:1-2

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Grace is Christ sharing His divine life with us!


((Abundance of grace))

Jn 10:10
rom 5:17-20
rom 1:7
rom 16:20
rom 16:24
1 cor 1:3
2 cor 1:2
2 cor 13:14
gal 1:3
eph 1:2
phil 1:2
phil 4:23
eph 6:24
col 1:2
1 thes 1:1
2 thes 1:2
1 tim 1:2
1 tim 1:14
1 tim 6:21
2 tim 1:2
titus 1:1
philemon 1:3
1 pet 1:2
2 pet 1:2
2 Jn 3
heb 4:16
last verse of scripture!
last word!

rev 22:21
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

thks

Grace questions

#1

Jn 15:1-6

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

a) If we were in Christ and are cast in the fire did we lose the grace of God or salvation?

b) How do we abide in Christ?

Jn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

#2

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

a) do we have eternal salvation and eternal salvation more abundantly?

b) or grace, and grace more abundantly?

#3

Mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

do we have eternal salvation to be on the narrow road that leads to eternal salvation?

#4

Mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Why are we promised eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

#5

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

a) Why have hope of eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

b) does eternal security oppose
the virture of Hope and the holy Spirit of promise?

 

[Wrangler]

Hmmm...
Paul, Peter, John, James, etc were confident.
I will followed their lead. My confidence is not in myself but rather it is in my Saviour 100%.

You do what you want with that.

Came across this in devotional reading today. Who is the author talking to that may have ?
Eph 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

you keep taking the future completion of salvation and using it to deny the present possession of eternal life.

That's because what you claim is untrue on many levels. Yes, we are due to inherit God's kingdom but like all inheritance, someone has to die before receiving the inheritance. In this case, we have to die - and I'm not talking about spiritual death. THEN, we have to be resurrected on Judgment Day. We will be judged to eternal death or life.

That anyone can say they are certain what the verdict will be beneficial to them is not the most humble act anyone ever took.

 

[Wrangler]

mk 13:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

@bdavidc, what do you say in response to such verses? What point is there to endure to the end if we are saved if we don't endure to the end?

 

[faithhopecharity]

Faithfulness matters, but faithfulness is not the ground of justification. Christ is. Martyrdom, endurance, obedience, and fruit are evidence of real faith, not the payment for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not of works, and then created in Christ Jesus unto good works ~Ephesians 2:8-10. If we cannot keep that distinction clear, we will just keep repeating the same argument.

dont confuse justification with salvation

and don't include eph 2:10 that os the purpose of our creation and the means of attaining to eternal salvation

to know love and serve God faithfully to the end!

grace is resistable and does not force us to love and obey

thks

 

[JimKnox]

All of you in this thread are conflating Salvation with Reward.
Salvation = eternity.
Reward = Millenial Kingdom.

 

[faithhopecharity]

In Matthew 25, the talents represent what the master entrusted to his servants. They are not eternal salvation itself. The text says the master “delivered unto them his goods” ~Matthew 25:14. That is stewardship. They were accountable for what belonged to him.

The faithful servants proved faithful with what was entrusted to them. The wicked servant did not simply “fail to earn enough.” His own words exposed his heart. He said, “Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man” ~Matthew 25:24. He had a false view of his master, hid what was entrusted to him, and was called “wicked and slothful” ~Matthew 25:26.

So no, Matthew 25 does not teach that eternal life is temporary life. It teaches that a true servant is faithful, and a false servant is exposed. That lines up with what I have been saying all along. Works reveal the heart. They do not purchase salvation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. Matthew 25 does not cancel that. It warns against empty profession and unfaithful stewardship. The wicked servant did not lose eternal life. He was exposed as wicked.

why was the last damned? for being a bad investment banker?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

You are still answering something I am not arguing. I have never said sin is harmless. I have never said a man can live in iniquity and still have biblical assurance. I have said the opposite. If a man walks in darkness, loves sin, and will not repent, I would not comfort him. I would warn him.

But warning against iniquity is not the same thing as saying eternal life is temporary life.

Matthew 7:23 actually proves the point. Jesus does not say, “I knew you, then stopped knowing you.” He says, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” That is not a saved man becoming lost. That is a false professor being exposed.

Second Timothy 2:19 says the same thing. “The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” Both truths stand together. The Lord knows His own, and His own are called to depart from iniquity. That does not teach saved, lost, saved, lost.

Galatians 5 warns that those who live in the works of the flesh “shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” I believe that. But Paul is not saying Christ gives eternal life in John 10 and then takes it back every time a believer stumbles. He is warning that a life dominated by the flesh exposes a person as outside the kingdom.

Romans 6:19 also does not teach loss of eternal life. It teaches believers not to yield themselves to sin, but to righteousness. That is sanctification. Paul already said in the same chapter, “sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” ~Romans 6:14.

The issue is still the same. You keep quoting verses that condemn sin as if they cancel the promises of Christ. They do not. I believe every warning against sin. I also believe Jesus when He said of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

A man living in iniquity has no right to claim assurance. But Christ’s sheep are not kept by pretending sin does not matter. They are kept by the power of God, corrected by the Father, brought to repentance, and made to endure. That is why eternal life is still eternal life, not probation.

then you really believe a born again cannot sin?

 

[faithhopecharity]

That smells like Catholicism.

scripture!

 

[faithhopecharity]

proof you can be born again, justified, new creation, having passed from death to life, and have your name written in the book of life and still be eternally lost!

phil 4:3
whose names are in the book of life.

rev 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now twist that!

thks

can you rob banks?
murder the gaurds?
waste the money on drunkenness and sin with whores & prostitutes?

die unrepentant and go directly to the glory of heaven?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

All of you in this thread are conflating Salvation with Reward.
Salvation = eternity.
Reward = Millenial Kingdom.

please explain

and these too

redemption
justification
sanctification
perseverance
death
judgement
eternal salvation

thks