How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[faithhopecharity]

Grace and mercy from God are required to be saved.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - 21st Century King James Version

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh...

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1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 and patience, experience; and experience, hope;

5 and hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely will one die for a righteous man, yet perhaps for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
15 But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one Man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one who sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is for many offenses unto justification.

17 For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you do not overcome the world by your faith, then you are not of God and not saved, it is the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that we have faith.

All saved people have an abundance of grace and mercy from the Father and the Son

1 John 5:4
For whosoever is born of God overcometh the world. And this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bible Gateway passage: Titus 3 - 21st Century King James Version

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no man, not to be brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts...

www.biblegateway.com

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready for every good work,

2 to speak evil of no man, not to be brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

4 But after the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

6 which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

we must overcome all three enemies the world, the flesh, and the devil!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Grace and mercy from God are required to be saved.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - 21st Century King James Version

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh...

www.biblegateway.com

1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 and patience, experience; and experience, hope;

5 and hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely will one die for a righteous man, yet perhaps for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
15 But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one Man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one who sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is for many offenses unto justification.

17 For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you do not overcome the world by your faith, then you are not of God and not saved, it is the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that we have faith.

All saved people have an abundance of grace and mercy from the Father and the Son

1 John 5:4
For whosoever is born of God overcometh the world. And this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bible Gateway passage: Titus 3 - 21st Century King James Version

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no man, not to be brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts...

www.biblegateway.com

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready for every good work,

2 to speak evil of no man, not to be brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

4 But after the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

6 which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

you base alot on eph 2 so lets see what it is about!

what are the possibilities?

a) the general redemption

b) our personal salvation

eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

quickend or brought to life

brought to life in grace Jn 1:16

meaning that general redemption by which Christ makes our justification possible

eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:9 titus 3:5 2 tim 1:9 not works

refers to the general redemption accomplished by Christ without our participation "works"

redemption is a part of the process of salvation so it is identified as salvation or the salvation in the past tense

eph 2:8 titus 3:5 2 tim 1:9 all use the past tense of salvation or "saved" all refer to the general redemption accomplished by Christ apart from us!

eph 2:8 excludes our participation in the general redemption "not of yourselves"!

eph 2:8 titus 3:5 & 2 tim 1:9 all refer to the general redemption, it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

not our personal salvation but the general redemption!


redemption and justification are not salvation, but parts in the process of salvation!

It does not end with justification as some think, having the gift of justice and righteousness there must be the performance of the deeds of righteousness and these are not dead works, but totally of grace!

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[bdavidc]

you base alot on eph 2 so lets see what it is about!

what are the possibilities?

a) the general redemption

b) our personal salvation

The possibilities are not “general redemption” or “personal salvation.” Paul tells us exactly what he means. Ephesians 2 is about the personal salvation of those who were dead in sins and were made alive with Christ.

Paul begins, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). The words “you” and “we” refer to actual believers, not humanity in general. These people had personally walked according to the world, personally lived in sin, and were personally “quickened together with Christ” (Ephesians 2:5). Not every human being has been made alive with Christ, raised with Him, and seated with Him in heavenly places. Therefore, this cannot be a general redemption shared by everyone.

John 1:16 does not change the meaning of Ephesians 2. “And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace” speaks of what believers receive from Christ. It does not teach that every person has been spiritually made alive before believing.

Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith.” Christ accomplished redemption without our help, but Paul is not merely describing redemption being made possible. He says these believers “are saved,” and that salvation is “through faith.” This is personal salvation received through faith, not a general benefit applied automatically to mankind.

You are also misusing the past tense. Paul does not say that because salvation is spoken of as completed, it must refer only to Christ’s work at the cross. Titus 3:5 says, “According to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.” Regeneration and renewal by the Holy Ghost happen personally to believers. That is not general redemption.

Second Timothy 1:9 says God “hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works.” Again, Paul speaks of people who have personally been saved and called. The calling is not general, and neither is the salvation.

Your claim that redemption and justification are merely steps in a process that must be completed through righteous deeds contradicts Scripture. Paul says believers are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). He also says, “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). Justification is not an unfinished probation. It is God’s declaration that the believer is righteous through faith in Christ.

Ephesians 2 gives the order plainly: “Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:9–10). We are not saved by good works. We are saved unto good works. Good works follow salvation because God has made us His workmanship. They do not complete what Christ left unfinished.

Luke 1:74–75 says that God delivers His people so that they “might serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” Notice the order. Deliverance comes first, then service in holiness and righteousness. The passage does not say holiness earns or completes deliverance.

Acts 10:35 says, “In every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” This does not teach justification by works. Cornelius feared God and did righteous deeds, yet he still needed to hear the gospel. The angel told him that Peter “shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14). Peter then preached, “Whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). The Holy Ghost fell when they heard and believed the gospel, not after they completed a lifetime of righteous works.

Jude 21 says, “Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.” Jude is writing to those who are already “sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ” (Jude 1). He is commanding believers to remain faithful while waiting for the final fullness of eternal life at Christ’s coming. He is not teaching that they preserve themselves by meritorious works. Verse 24 says God “is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory.”

Romans 2:6–7 says God “will render to every man according to his deeds” and speaks of those who continue in well doing. That is God’s perfect standard of judgment. But Paul’s conclusion is that no sinner meets that standard: “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10), and “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” (Romans 3:20). Romans 2 shuts the mouth of the self-righteous. It does not create a path of salvation through patient moral performance.

Hebrews 10:36 says, “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.” The writer is addressing believers who had already been “sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Hebrews 10:10). He is calling them to endure persecution and not draw back. Endurance marks genuine faith, but it does not purchase justification. The same chapter says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14).

You keep confusing the fruit of salvation with the cause of salvation. Scripture commands holiness, obedience, patience, and good works. But it never says these things complete justification or add to Christ’s finished work.

Paul settles the matter: “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

Ephesians 2 is not about a so-called general redemption. It is about sinners who were personally dead in sin, personally made alive with Christ, personally saved by grace through faith, and then created unto good works. Your interpretation does not come from the passage. It has been imposed upon it to make room for works in the obtaining of eternal life.

 

[bdavidc]

how do you revive something unless it dead?

not saying we can lose eternal salvation we cannot, after death and a favorable judgment we enter in to eternal life in the glories of heaven

here and now we have union by the grace of justification

By the grace of justification we have union with God thru Christ, in the communion of saints, empowered by His grace and merits and life in the spirit to attain to eternal salvation in glory!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing.

phil 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

thks

“Restoreth” does not require that David’s soul was spiritually dead. Scripture itself uses words such as “revive” for people who are still physically and spiritually alive. When Jacob heard that Joseph was alive, “the spirit of Jacob their father revived” (Genesis 45:27). Jacob had not been dead. He had been overwhelmed with grief and was refreshed by good news. Israel prayed, “Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee?” (Psalm 85:6). They were still called God’s people.

Psalm 23:3 says, “He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.” David is describing the Shepherd refreshing him, bringing him back, and leading him rightly. The verse says nothing about losing justification, losing union with God, or needing to regain spiritual life.

You now say eternal salvation cannot be lost, but then you redefine eternal salvation as something nobody possesses until after death and a favorable judgment. That directly contradicts the words of Christ:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Jesus did not say the believer might attain eternal life after judgment. He said the believer “hath everlasting life,” “shall not come into condemnation,” and “is passed from death unto life.” Those are present realities.

John says the same thing: “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). Then he writes, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” (1 John 5:13). Eternal life is not merely a possibility awaiting a favorable verdict after death. It is God’s present gift to those who believe in His Son.

Your statement that believers are empowered “to attain to eternal salvation in glory” mixes sanctification with justification. Scripture does not say we use grace and Christ’s merits to perform our way toward a favorable judgment. It says, “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). It also says, “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). Our future deliverance from wrath rests upon already having been justified by Christ’s blood, not upon accumulating enough righteous performance.

John 15:5 says, “Without me ye can do nothing.” That is true. Believers can bear no spiritual fruit apart from Christ. But fruit is not the price of eternal life. Jesus had already told His disciples, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3). They were to abide in Him and bear fruit because they belonged to Him.

Philippians 4:13 does not teach attaining eternal salvation through works empowered by grace. Paul is speaking about being content through hunger, abundance, need, and suffering: “I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content” (Philippians 4:11). Christ strengthened Paul to endure every circumstance.

Colossians 1:11 likewise speaks of being strengthened “unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness.” But continue reading. Paul gives thanks to the Father, “which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins” (Colossians 1:12–14). God has already qualified, delivered, transferred, redeemed, and forgiven believers. Patience and endurance flow from that salvation. They do not complete it.

Believers will appear before Christ for the evaluation of their works, but the issue there is reward, not whether Christ’s righteousness was sufficient to save them. First Corinthians 3:15 says that a believer’s work may be burned and “he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved.”

The biblical order remains clear. We are justified by faith, given eternal life, delivered from condemnation, and made God’s workmanship. Then, in union with Christ and by the Spirit’s power, we walk in the good works God prepared for us.

You keep turning the fruit of salvation into the means of attaining salvation. Scripture does not permit that reversal. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

 

[bdavidc]

where did this concept of quantity come from, endures to the end or faithful to the end enduring all things for love of God in patience

thks

You dodged the question. If endurance and faithfulness are conditions for entering heaven, then how faithful must a person be? Perfectly faithful, mostly faithful, or faithful enough? Scripture gives no such threshold.

God’s standard is perfect: “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things” (Galatians 3:10). “Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all” (James 2:10).

Endurance is the fruit of true faith, not the ground of justification. Christ says of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

So answer plainly: Is your obedience sufficient right now for a favorable judgment? If not, what exactly is still required?

 

[faithhopecharity]

this is called justification by works.

for the wage of sin is death the gift of God is eternal life (rom 6: 23)

I said justification is by grace not works

eternal life in this context is not eternal salvation but grace!

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

grace not eternal salvation

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

life (grace) not eternal salvation and eternal salvation more abundantly

thks

same term has different meaning!

"eternal life"

Eternal life has two parts:

part one) grace that we receive now in this life with the initial grace of justification which we can increase by good works and lose by sin.

part two) eternal salvation after death, judgment, eternal life in the glories of heaven.

((eternal life refers to grace))

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((eternal life refers to eternal salvation))

mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


((promise of eternal salvation))

mk 13:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 10:22
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[faithhopecharity]

This passage below fully and completely refutes this statement above.

Romans 5:15-21 KJV
15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

I glad you agree! thks

 

[marks]

I glad you agree! thks

Agree with what?

 

[marks]

I said justification is by grace not works

But the rest of what you say makes that into a lie. Is it not your view that you MUST have a lifetime of good works to actually be saved in the end?

Tell me . . . how many "bad works" does it take to stop being saved?

Much love!

 

[faithhopecharity]

You may deny justification by works, but you are still making eternal salvation depend on our successful participation in sanctification and perseverance. That is the same problem moved to a later stage.

Romans 6:22 says holiness is the fruit of being set free from sin and becoming servants of God. Fruit comes from life already received. It is not the price paid to obtain eternal life. Paul settles the matter in the very next verse: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Eternal life is a gift, not the final wage for adequate perseverance.

Believers are called to holiness, and true faith will bear fruit. But our perseverance rests on God’s keeping power, not our ability to complete salvation. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5), and “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

Sanctification is necessary as the evidence and work of God in those He has saved. It is not a second stage where eternal life hangs on whether we perform well enough to reach the end. Christ does not merely begin salvation and leave us to finish it. He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

where does it say justification is salvation?

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

cannot be the same!

eternal life and eternal salvation are not the same in scripture either

((eternal life refers to grace))

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((eternal life refers to eternal salvation))

mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

You may deny justification by works, but you are still making eternal salvation depend on our successful participation in sanctification and perseverance. That is the same problem moved to a later stage.

Romans 6:22 says holiness is the fruit of being set free from sin and becoming servants of God. Fruit comes from life already received. It is not the price paid to obtain eternal life. Paul settles the matter in the very next verse: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Eternal life is a gift, not the final wage for adequate perseverance.

Believers are called to holiness, and true faith will bear fruit. But our perseverance rests on God’s keeping power, not our ability to complete salvation. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5), and “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

Sanctification is necessary as the evidence and work of God in those He has saved. It is not a second stage where eternal life hangs on whether we perform well enough to reach the end. Christ does not merely begin salvation and leave us to finish it. He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

1) we must suffer & tried

2) we must be faithful to death

3) we receive eternal salvation

thks

 

[bdavidc]

where does it say justification is salvation?

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

cannot be the same!

eternal life and eternal salvation are not the same in scripture either

((eternal life refers to grace))

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((eternal life refers to eternal salvation))

mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

thks

Romans 5:9 directly connects justification with salvation: “Being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Titus 3:7 says the justified become “heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Romans 8:30 says those God justifies, He also glorifies.

Romans 10:10 is Hebrew parallelism, not two different stages of salvation. Believing unto righteousness and confessing unto salvation describe the same faith openly expressed.

Your separation of eternal life from eternal salvation also fails. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life” and “shall not come into condemnation” (John 5:24). Eternal life is not merely grace that may later fail to become salvation. It is God’s present gift in Christ, with final glory secured by the God who justifies.

 

[bdavidc]

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

1) we must suffer & tried

2) we must be faithful to death

3) we receive eternal salvation

thks

No. You added point 3 to the text. Revelation 2:10 says “some of you” would be imprisoned and tested. It does not say every believer must suffer that exact trial, and it does not say eternal salvation is earned by surviving it.

Christ promises the “crown of life” to faithful believers. A crown is a reward for endurance, not the purchase price of eternal life. Eternal life is already God’s gift: “He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47), and Christ says, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

The passage teaches faithfulness under persecution. It does not teach that Christ gives temporary life now and eternal salvation only if we perform well enough until death.

 

[faithhopecharity]

You may deny justification by works, but you are still making eternal salvation depend on our successful participation in sanctification and perseverance. That is the same problem moved to a later stage.

Romans 6:22 says holiness is the fruit of being set free from sin and becoming servants of God. Fruit comes from life already received. It is not the price paid to obtain eternal life. Paul settles the matter in the very next verse: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Eternal life is a gift, not the final wage for adequate perseverance.

Believers are called to holiness, and true faith will bear fruit. But our perseverance rests on God’s keeping power, not our ability to complete salvation. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5), and “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

Sanctification is necessary as the evidence and work of God in those He has saved. It is not a second stage where eternal life hangs on whether we perform well enough to reach the end. Christ does not merely begin salvation and leave us to finish it. He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

rom 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

You may deny justification by works, but you are still making eternal salvation depend on our successful participation in sanctification and perseverance. That is the same problem moved to a later stage.

Romans 6:22 says holiness is the fruit of being set free from sin and becoming servants of God. Fruit comes from life already received. It is not the price paid to obtain eternal life. Paul settles the matter in the very next verse: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Eternal life is a gift, not the final wage for adequate perseverance.

Believers are called to holiness, and true faith will bear fruit. But our perseverance rests on God’s keeping power, not our ability to complete salvation. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5), and “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

Sanctification is necessary as the evidence and work of God in those He has saved. It is not a second stage where eternal life hangs on whether we perform well enough to reach the end. Christ does not merely begin salvation and leave us to finish it. He said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28).

rom 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1) rendor according to works

2) by seeking virture, holiness, godliness

3) rendors immortality and eternal salvation

thks