How did Jesus keep from sinning?

[Arthur81]

Dear readers of this thread. Most posters are pushing the heresy of kenosis, which removes the Diety from the person of Jesus Christ. It is in oppostion to biblical doctrine and explained so in the Athanasian Creed. I'll quote from "Got Questions", which has a good article on this:

"There are some false teachers who take the concept of kenosis too far, saying that Jesus gave up all or some of His divine nature when He came to earth. This heresy is sometimes referred to as the kenosis theory, but a better term is kenoticism or kenotic theology, to distinguish it from biblical understanding of the kenosis."

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? | GotQuestions.org

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? What did Jesus empty Himself of?

www.gotquestions.org

Over the years I've encountered this false teaching mainly in Pentecostal and Charismatic people. These people like to bring Jesus down to our level, or raise themselves up to Jesus' level. They wish to teach that the human Jesus performed all by the Holy Spirit; and in like manner, the righteous Christian can do likewise.

 

[Behold]

"...but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden,

And "in Christ">.. = ""in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."

And who is "in Christ"?

A.) All the BORN AGAIN

 

[Behold]

Dear readers of this thread. Most posters are pushing the heresy of kenosis, which removes the Diety from the person of Jesus Christ.

I teach the "Deity of Christ", a lot.

However, that "God was manifested in the Flesh" does not contradict that Jesus is the "2nd Adam."

See, when Jesus told us... "I am from Above, and You are from below".. He is not denying that He's a virgin born human being who is going to shed Human BLOOD on The Cross.

Jesus is the Holy Seed of God, in a Human Body....when He was down here.

 

[Arthur81]

I teach the "Deity of Christ", a lot.

However, that "God was manifested in the Flesh" does not contradict that Jesus is the "2nd Adam."

See, when Jesus told us... "I am from Above, and You are from below".. He is not denying that He's a virgin born human being who is going to shed Human BLOOD on The Cross.

Jesus is the Holy Seed of God, in a Human Body....when He was down here.

I don't see what sort of "Deity of Christ" you teach, having earlier written: "GOD, does not DIE, yet Jesus DIED.. .. on the Cross., and rose again." Therefore, according to you, Jesus was not God Almighty, Jehovah or Yahweh. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach a sort of divinity in Jesus.

"We speak wisdom, however, among them that are full grown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought: but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory: which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory:" (1Cor 2:6-8 ASV)

"Who is the King of glory? Jehovah strong and mighty, Jehovah mighty in battle." (Ps 24:8 ASV)

"And he said, Brethren and fathers, hearken: The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran," (Acts 7:2 ASV)

"that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him;" (Eph 1:17 ASV)

"The application of this title to all the three, shows that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the God of glory, as the only true God is called, Psa_29:3, Act_7:2." Joseph Benson

"crucified ... Lord of glory — implying the inseparable connection of Christ’s humanity and His divinity. The Lord of glory (which He had in His own right before the world was, Joh_17:4, Joh_17:24) was crucified." The JFB

"The Lord of glory - The giving Christ this august title, peculiar to the great Jehovah, plainly shows him to be the supreme God. In like manner the Father is styled, "the Father of glory," Eph 1:17; and the Holy Ghost, "the Spirit of glory," 1Pe 4:14. The application of this title to all the three, shows that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "the God of glory;" as the only true God is called, Psa 29:3, and Act 7:2." John Wesley

I can no more comprehend and explain this than I can comprehend and explain the Trinity. But, scripture teaches it and I believe it.

 

[Rockerduck]

Sin does not pass down through women, only men pass down sin.

 

[Arthur81]

I don't see what sort of "Deity of Christ" you teach, having earlier written: "GOD, does not DIE, yet Jesus DIED.. .. on the Cross., and rose again." Therefore, according to you, Jesus was not God Almighty, Jehovah or Yahweh. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach a sort of divinity in Jesus.

"We speak wisdom, however, among them that are full grown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought: but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory: which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory:" (1Cor 2:6-8 ASV)

"Who is the King of glory? Jehovah strong and mighty, Jehovah mighty in battle." (Ps 24:8 ASV)

"And he said, Brethren and fathers, hearken: The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran," (Acts 7:2 ASV)

"that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him;" (Eph 1:17 ASV)

"The application of this title to all the three, shows that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the God of glory, as the only true God is called, Psa_29:3, Act_7:2." Joseph Benson

"crucified ... Lord of glory — implying the inseparable connection of Christ’s humanity and His divinity. The Lord of glory (which He had in His own right before the world was, Joh_17:4, Joh_17:24) was crucified." The JFB

"The Lord of glory - The giving Christ this august title, peculiar to the great Jehovah, plainly shows him to be the supreme God. In like manner the Father is styled, "the Father of glory," Eph 1:17; and the Holy Ghost, "the Spirit of glory," 1Pe 4:14. The application of this title to all the three, shows that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "the God of glory;" as the only true God is called, Psa 29:3, and Act 7:2." John Wesley

I can no more comprehend and explain this than I can comprehend and explain the Trinity. But, scripture teaches it and I believe it.

A very obvious passage that bears on this question is one we use to prove that Jesus Christ is Yahweh, I forgot it in previous post, I include it here:

"In that day shall Jehovah defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of Jehovah before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born." (Zech 12:8-10 ASV)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Son of God and the Son of Man is one Christ and cannot be divided into 2 Persons. This has been orthodoxy since the early centuries as stated in the Athanasian Creed which is squarely based upon scripture. As the early church did combat with heretics, they were forced to put doctrine into creeds for clearly stating the biblical faith.

The Athanasian Creed according to scripture:

"Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ: one, however, not by the conversion of the divinity into flesh, but by the assumption of humanity into God; one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ,"

Based upon these scriptures:

"But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many...For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ." (Rom 5:15, 17 ASV)

"yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him." (1Cor 8:6 ASV)

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Eph 4:5 ASV)

"Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son." (1John 2:22 ASV)

"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us." (Matt 1:23 ASV)

"In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God’s presence, and what God was, the Word was." (John 1:1 REB) *Switched to the REB because of the nuanced translation discussed in the NET Bible TN.

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 ASV)

"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross." (Phil 2:5-8 ASV)

"Since then the children are sharers in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same; that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and might deliver all them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham. Wherefore it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." (Heb 2:14-17 ASV)

Athanasian Creed According to Scripture

steadfastlutherans.org

That Lutheran web site has the ESV linked to the verses so they pop up as you place the cursor over them.

What point are you trying to make to me? I agree with what you wrote, and see no conflict

 

[Hobie]

Dear readers of this thread. Most posters are pushing the heresy of kenosis, which removes the Diety from the person of Jesus Christ. It is in oppostion to biblical doctrine and explained so in the Athanasian Creed. I'll quote from "Got Questions", which has a good article on this:

"There are some false teachers who take the concept of kenosis too far, saying that Jesus gave up all or some of His divine nature when He came to earth. This heresy is sometimes referred to as the kenosis theory, but a better term is kenoticism or kenotic theology, to distinguish it from biblical understanding of the kenosis."

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? | GotQuestions.org

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? What did Jesus empty Himself of?

www.gotquestions.org

Over the years I've encountered this false teaching mainly in Pentecostal and Charismatic people. These people like to bring Jesus down to our level, or raise themselves up to Jesus' level. They wish to teach that the human Jesus performed all by the Holy Spirit; and in like manner, the righteous Christian can do likewise.

What would you call what we are given by the scriptures telling us He was Fully God and Fully Man....

John 1:14​

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 4:2​

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Hebrews 2:17​

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

John 17:5​

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Arthur81]

Christ just means anoninted one, Jesus was born of the flesh - the Word of God made flesh. Jesus was the anointed one, who did the will of His Father. God through Christ reconciled the world back unto himself.


Jesus was the Son of Man.
Jesus was the Son of God.

The question a lot of people have is probably how is this possible.

The anointed one in the OT, the Messiah was to be Yahweh... and the anointed one in the NT, the Christ is also Yahweh which proves the Deity of Christ. The Son of Man and the Son of God are one Christ, indivisible.

 

[Arthur81]

What point are you trying to make to me? I agree with what you wrote, and see no conflict

Ronald, you wrote "He suffered temptation in His humanity" I understood you to be separating the humanity away from the Divine. If I misunderstand you, I apologize. I had in mind various statements being made through this thread and if I read more into your words, again, I do apologize. Following are some of the comments I had in mind.

"He had flesh and blood and could suffer death." Isn't the Christ Son of God as well as Son of Man? Was it just the manhood, the human that could suffer death? That would require dividing the nature of Christ into two; and that is contrary to scripture and orthodoxy.

"The answer is simple. And so is the doing of it, if we keep His faith.
It only gets complicated if we do not keep His faith and become double minded."

There you have the kenosis heresy that lowers Christ's Deity down to the point we believers can do likewise, "if we keep His faith".

"By the power of the Holy Spirit. and by resisting the Devil by the word." That seems to be teaching that if we believers by the Holy Spirit resisted by the word, we too could not sin. Again, lowering the Christ down to the level of the mortal believers.

"Virgin born MAN, who was "the word made flesh" who could have sinned." Here the "virgin born MAN" part of the Christ "could have sinned"... which is heretical in that it takes away the oneness of the Christ and divides the Son of Man from the Son of God.

I find it important to strive for the articulate wording of the church's early creeds, the Ecumenical Creeds, for they make important distinctions from heretics.

 

[MatthewG]

The anointed one in the OT, the Messiah was to be Yahweh... and the anointed one in the NT, the Christ is also Yahweh which proves the Deity of Christ. The Son of Man and the Son of God are one Christ, indivisible.

Sure they are one is of the flesh, one is of the spirit. We learn how Jesus was from his life, he lived for all us which none of us could do perfectly. He was only able to do that because of being the Word of God, having his mind by the flesh from within the soul of Jesus on heavenly thing. It was by the Holy Spirit, of God, and the Word of God, and the will of Jesus by his human nature to do the will of God, by a choice which he had made.

While one may learn and see what Jesus did with the perfect life he lived, he by and through us now help us do the will of God, if we partake and choose to do so. Jesus by the flesh, is just by the flesh, earthly material, there was nothing heavenly about it, except that of being a perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people. Yeshua, gave his spirit up to his Father. So there are reasons one can take a look at the Son of Man, and the Son of God, and how it is that Jesus those titles, it is because Jesus it the Word of God, born into flesh leaving its once former residence.

Died on the cross and rose again, by the holy spirit of God, on the third day.

I do believe that today, it's the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, whom sits on the throne today. The Father and Word reunited back to the former glory which was had, and how the Father is working through the anointed one Jesus, - Christ. It's also Jesus working with his Father too.

 

[Hobie]

The anointed one in the OT, the Messiah was to be Yahweh... and the anointed one in the NT, the Christ is also Yahweh which proves the Deity of Christ. The Son of Man and the Son of God are one Christ, indivisible.

So do you believe Christ was fully God and fully man as that is a core Christian belief..

 

[Arthur81]

So do you believe Christ was fully God and fully man as that is a core Christian belief..

I'm scratching my head wondering why you need to ask that question after all that I have posted. What more can I say? Jesus the Christ is Fully God as well as fully man, inseparable, one Christ.

 

[Lambano]

Ooo, you guys are getting close to discussing the topic we can't discuss.

 

[Arthur81]

Ooo, you guys are getting close to discussing the topic we can't discuss.

I suppose you are right, but I still cannot grasp why discussing what the Bible and the Ecumenical Creeds teach as foundational to the Christian faith should be banned. It comes down to the key question, was Jesus the Christ Yahweh or was he not? Was he God or was he a creation of God? To see Jesus the Christ as anything less than Yahweh is to be outside the Christian faith! That is why the JWs and Mormons are not considered Christian. Now if what I say in this reply gets me banned, so be it. The forum would then have NO right to the name "Christianity Board".

 

[Hobie]

I'm scratching my head wondering why you need to ask that question after all that I have posted. What more can I say? Jesus the Christ is Fully God as well as fully man, inseparable, one Christ.

But as fully man He was made the same as you and I, and that of His own choice and thus we see these words..

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And yet He existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. This is the mystery of the Godhead, the three in one.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Its a hard thing to grasp to say nothing of understanding, but when we get to heaven, we will get to ask and see it manifested.

Proverbs 8:22-27
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

 

[Webers_Home]

~
Re: How did Jesus keep from sinning?

Christ had some advantages not available to others of his day. For example:


1) He not only had the genetic makeup of mankind, but also that of God; which
trumps mankind's genetic makeup.

● 1John 3:9 . . Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in
him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


2) He was not only empowered by God's spirit, but was overpowered.

● John 3:34 . . God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit.


NOTE: That passage in 1John 3:9 doesn't apply to born again Christians because
the Father has only one direct descendant. (John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John
3:18, 1John 4:9)

Born again Christians are God's handiwork, i.e. creations (2Cor 5:17, Eph 2:10, Eph
4:24) taken into His family circle by means of adoption. (Gal 4:4-5, Eph 1:4-5) so
it's to be expected that they wouldn't be sinless.

● 1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his
word is not in us.

** The pronouns "we" and "ourselves" and "us" indicate that had John claimed to
be sinless he would've been caught in self-deception and practicing dishonesty.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

~
The so-called sinful nature (a.k.a. the fallen nature) is commonly believed
inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was fully constructed, fully sentient, and fully operational prior to Adam
tasting the forbidden fruit so it was too late for him to pass the nature to her
by reproduction even though she was constructed with material taken from
his body.

In point of fact; Eve was the first to taste the fruit and when she did;
nothing happened. Eve went right on in the buff just as shameless as before.
It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that her perception of decency relative to
sex and the human body underwent a significant adjustment.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

~
FAQ: God created the original human nature, right? So did God create the
sin nature too?

REPLY: The so-called sin nature (a.k.a. fallen nature) isn't a creation,
rather, it's a modification; sort of like back in the day when hot rod
enthusiasts tampered with carburetion, ignition timing, compression ratios,
and cam shafts to make factory cars go faster.

The obvious grease monkey in the modification of human nature is the
Serpent a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) He has the power of death (Heb 2:14)
and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in ways
not easily detected. (e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2) When Jesus
told his opponents that they were of their father the Devil; he wasn't being
rhetorical, rather, simply stating a fact of life.

FAQ: The woman was first to taste the forbidden fruit, but when she did,
nothing happened. She went right on in the buff as usual sans any feelings
of shame. Why were modifications to the woman's nature delayed until the
man tasted the fruit?

REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come
into the world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and
righteousness would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions.
(Rom 5:12-21)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas; indicating that their sense of decency relative to
sex and the human body had been altered, i.e. its settings were no longer
"factory" so to speak.
_

 

[Hobie]

Ooo, you guys are getting close to discussing the topic we can't discuss.

What topic is that, is discussion of the GodHead off limits?