How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Aunty Jane]

I would say, there was no Trinity before the Incarnation. When the Word (Logos) became flesh.
At the point of Jesus' conception, there was God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

The son was in existence before creation. He didn’t just pop up with his human conception.

Col 1:15-17...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

 

[Jack]

Did you not know Jack?
@Auntie Jane is an expert in the Greek language...
gosh, she might even speak it!

Yes, she keeps telling us. The WatchTower told her she is.

And also, did you not know that "the Greek" can be twisted to mean whatever one wants it to mean!!

Oh my!
LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I would say, there was no Trinity before the Incarnation. When the Word (Logos) became flesh.
At the point of Jesus' conception, there was God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

The son was in existence before creation. He didn’t just pop up with his human conception.

Col 1:15-17...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

Two things.
1) firstborn over all creation refers to His resurrection.
2) His part in creation was spoken in retrospect.
(He wasn't Jesus then, He was only the Word (Logos)
The Word (Logos) was from the beginning.
The Word BECAME flesh. (Jesus)

 

[rvmb]

It’s more than just a tag...it’s the very foundation upon which Christendom is built....so you can’t just pass it off as something as simple as you said. You have to understand at a very deep level what is taught about these three in the whole Bible, as Jesus and his apostles taught about them.

It is a salvation issue, as Jesus said.....
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (ESV)
We have to “know” “the only true God” because the devil is the promoter of false gods who enslave people all over the world. Has he perverted the identity of the “one God” of the Hebrew Scriptures? (Deut 6:4) What a great way to induce people to disobey God....by lying to them.....isn’t this what happened in Eden?

And Jesus said we need to “know” the one whom God “sent”.
So where is the equal third party here? Why don’t we need to “know” the “Holy Spirit” if he is part of who God is?

Who did the apostles collectively say was their “one God”?
1 Cor 8:5-6...
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (ESV)

Again..no third party is mentioned.....why? Because in the first century, the trinity did not exist, and was not taught by the apostles. It was a later adoption, introduced by the “weeds” whom Jesus said were sown by the devil, in a counterfeit “Christianity”.

I also believe that the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit pre-existed creation because that is what Scripture teaches....but none of them are presented in the Bible as three parts of one God.

There is not a single Scripture where Jesus or his Father categorically states that they are equal parts of God with the Holy Spirit. If you can find one, I’ll show you with other Scripture that it is a deliberate mistranslation to promote a doctrine....not Bible based truth.

Nothing complicated :)
The Father, The Word, The HS existed BEFORE Gen 1:1 & John 1:1
If you believe otherwise then simply list the verses and let them do the talking :)

 

[rvmb]

I would say, there was no Trinity before the Incarnation. When the Word (Logos) became flesh.
At the point of Jesus' conception, there was God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

You don't believe The Father, The Word, The HS existed before John 1:1 & Gen 1:1 ?

 

[Grailhunter]

Beware when a Jehovah’s Witness starts talking to you about the meaning of Hebrew or Greek words they are trying to deceive you. If they knew Greek they would know that Christ's name is Yeshua and He is a God and Hell is real. Not to mention that God the Father’s name is Yahweh not Jehovah. No J’s in the scriptures is an elementary understanding.

There are multiple types of Greek languages, primarily categorized into dialects and minority languages. The most notable include:

Modern Greek: The official language spoken by about 99% of the population in Greece.

Dialects: Various regional dialects exist, such as Demotic Greek, Katharevousa Greek, and Cappadocian Greek.

Minority Languages: Other languages spoken include Cretan Greek, Maniot, and Pontic Greek.

In total, there are several non-official languages and dialects to the linguistic diversity of Greece.

But what we are interested in is Koine Greek and Christian Greek.
Koine Greek, also known as Biblical Greek, is the common dialect of Greek that emerged after the conquests of Alexander the Great and served as the Common language of the Mediterranean world, most importantly in the context of the New Testament and early Christian writings. With regional differences in dialect and grammar much like a New Jersy man and a Louisiana man both speak and write in English.

Then you have Christian Greek / Biblical Greek which is similar to Koine Greek except the Apostles modified some of the Greek words with Christian theological definitions. For example, the word sin. A Roman might say he sinned because his arrow did not hit the target while a sin for Christian is a religious violation. And they used a name of a Greek god Hades for Hell.

 

[HealthyShape]

Two things.
1) firstborn over all creation refers to His resurrection.

prótotokos can mean “firstborn” literally, but in Jewish-Hellenistic usage it commonly denotes rank, inheritance rights, or preeminence (see e.g., Psalm 89:27 LXX where God says of the king “I will make him my firstborn,” meaning highest status).

"firstborn of all creation" just means Jesus is the ruler of all creation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Nothing complicated :)
The Father, The Word, The HS existed BEFORE Gen 1:1 & John 1:1
If you believe otherwise then simply list the verses and let them do the talking :)

I don’t think you read what I said...I do believe that Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed before Gen and John 1:1.....I just don’t believe that they are all equal parts of the same God, since no Scripture actually says that they are....if they had this issue would have never started.

 

[St. SteVen]

You don't believe The Father, The Word, The HS existed before John 1:1 & Gen 1:1 ?

Existed? Yes.
But naming them is the tricky part.
In the same way that God the Son was not God the Son until the incarnation,
God the Father was not a father until the incarnation.
Unless He was Father of something else?
And did the Holy Spirit have a specific role before Christ's ministry?

 

[St. SteVen]

prótotokos can mean “firstborn” literally, but in Jewish-Hellenistic usage it commonly denotes rank, inheritance rights, or preeminence (see e.g., Psalm 89:27 LXX where God says of the king “I will make him my firstborn,” meaning highest status).

"firstborn of all creation" just means Jesus is the ruler of all creation.

Good point.
Here is what I was referring to:

Colossians 1:18 NIV
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning
and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything
he might have the supremacy.

 

[rvmb]

I don’t think you read what I said...I do believe that Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed before Gen and John 1:1.....I just don’t believe that they are all equal parts of the same God, since no Scripture actually says that they are....if they had this issue would have never started.

""I just don’t believe that they are all equal parts of the same God,""
Never thought of it that way before, a good point :)

 

[rvmb]

Existed? Yes.
But naming them is the tricky part.
In the same way that God the Son was not God the Son until the incarnation,
God the Father was not a father until the incarnation.
Unless He was Father of something else?
And did the Holy Spirit have a specific role before Christ's ministry?

It will all be explained to us in eternity :)

 

[HealthyShape]

""I just don’t believe that they are all equal parts of the same God,""
Never thought of it that way before, a good point :)

It is not a good point, she constantly misrepresents Trinity.

Partialism is heresy, not the orthodox Trinitarian position. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three parts of God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1st Corinthians 8:6

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1st Timothy 2:5

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2nd Corinthians 13:14

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 count the ands

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. John 5:20

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1st Peter 1:3

And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:11

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 2nd Corinthians 1:3-4

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. Acts 10:38

Over a hundred scriptures prove that the Trinity is a Godhead of 3 full-fledged Gods on thrones....Yahweh and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit Father and only begotten Son. Yahweh Almighty Supreme and unique among the 3. Yahweh the Creator God......Yeshua Messiah and Savior of the world.....the God that brought love and forgiveness to us. The veil was torn in two.....the God that gave us the Grace so we could have a relationship with His Father Yahweh. The Holy Spirit the un-named God, our guide the communicator, the helper that Yeshua sent.

The Truth will set you free.....The Truth is undefeatable.....But the Truth can step on people's toes.....The Apostles found that out the hard way. Orthodoxy has become a social thing to be accepted among others. And it stands as an obstacle for Truth. To be in line with men, better to be in line with God. Galileo went against Orthodoxy because He knew the Truth....the world was round and the universe did not revolve around it. It takes courage to stand up for the Truth but as they say if you stand up for Truth you will fall for anything.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1st Corinthians 8:6

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1st Timothy 2:5

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2nd Corinthians 13:14

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 count the ands

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. John 5:20

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1st Peter 1:3

And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:11

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 2nd Corinthians 1:3-4

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. Acts 10:38

Over a hundred scriptures prove that the Trinity is a Godhead of 3 full-fledged Gods on thrones....Yahweh and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit Father and only begotten Son. Yahweh Almighty Supreme and unique among the 3. Yahweh the Creator God......Yeshua Messiah and Savior of the world.....the God that brought love and forgiveness to us. The veil was torn in two.....the God that gave us the Grace so we could have a relationship with His Father Yahweh. The Holy Spirit the un-named God, our guide the communicator, the helper that Yeshua sent.

The Truth will set you free.....The Truth is undefeatable.....But the Truth can step on people's toes.....The Apostles found that out the hard way. Orthodoxy has become a social thing to be accepted among others. And it stands as an obstacle for Truth. To be in line with men, better to be in line with God. Galileo went against Orthodoxy because He knew the Truth....the world was round and the universe did not revolve around it. It takes courage to stand up for the Truth but as they say if you stand up for Truth you will fall for anything.

The distinctions among Father, Son, and Spirit are defined by relations of origin. Father as unbegotten source, Son as begotten, Spirit as procession. Not by differences in essence or by separable parts.

Saying “three Gods” mistakes relational and personal distinctions for multiple essences. Multiplicity requires separate substances. Persons can be distinct without implying separate substances.

 

[Grailhunter]

Saying “three Gods” mistakes relational and personal distinctions for multiple essences. Multiplicity requires separate substances. Persons can be distinct without implying separate substances.

Your view is popular but there are over a hundred scriptures that prove you wrong. So at that point you are saying you do not like what the scriptures say but like what men say. So many false beliefs out there.

 

[MonoBiblical]

prótotokos can mean “firstborn” literally, but in Jewish-Hellenistic usage it commonly denotes rank, inheritance rights, or preeminence (see e.g., Psalm 89:27 LXX where God says of the king “I will make him my firstborn,” meaning highest status).

"firstborn of all creation" just means Jesus is the ruler of all creation.

Protos does not mean first as it does in Modern Greek. It means foremost, and teknos means something being conceived like seeds or fetuses. He is an image of an invisible God, being the foremost born of every foundation.

[Col 1:18 NKJV] 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[rvmb]

It is not a good point, she constantly misrepresents Trinity.

Partialism is heresy, not the orthodox Trinitarian position. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three parts of God.

Before creation I believe The Father, The Word, The HS existed and am unaware of any verses that teach otherwise.
ps, I align myself with Scripture and not a denomination :)

 

[MonoBiblical]

He didn’t just pop up with his human conception.

Yes, he did.

 

[Aunty Jane]

prótotokos can mean “firstborn” literally, but in Jewish-Hellenistic usage it commonly denotes rank, inheritance rights, or preeminence (see e.g., Psalm 89:27 LXX where God says of the king “I will make him my firstborn,” meaning highest status).

"firstborn of all creation" just means Jesus is the ruler of all creation.

“prōtotokos” in all the verses where it appears in the NT, means “firstborn” or “first-begotten”,

It is not a good point, she constantly misrepresents Trinity.

It’s hard to misrepresent a doctrine that was never presented by Christ or his apostles as doctrine to begin with.
The trinity is an ancient lie, gradually introduced over time and through much controversy into an apostate church that Jesus warned about. It only became official “church” doctrine in the 4th century.
So strange that the Christ never mentioned something so vitally important about the nature of a God he serves on earth and in heaven. (Acts 4:27, 30; Rev 3:12)

Partialism is heresy, not the orthodox Trinitarian position. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three parts of God.

Good grief! you mean there’s a name for it?
Well I guess they have a name for everything else...just not for the God of Jesus Christ. And if the divine name was still in use, the trinity could never have been invented.

Nowhere in all of the Bible does Jesus ever say that he is God incarnate.....and Scripture that suggests that there are at least two gods are exposed as inaccurate translations.

There is no threesome...there never was. In so many references to God and his son, the third and equally important part of God, doesn’t even rate a mention....(John 17:3; 2 Cor 8:5-6)

God’s spirit is an enabler...it is power that emanates from God and is given to those who can then manifest it in visible ways. It is not a person. The “Paraclete” (helper, holy spirit) in Greek is a masculine noun and so has masculine pronouns....referring to the spirit as “he” is just correct grammar.

It also doesn’t account for Jesus’ statement in Rev 3:12....
“The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.” (ESV)

The Revelation was written at the end of the first century, long after Jesus’ return to heaven.....how is it that God has a God in heaven.....and that he speaks of his new name? Can God have a new name? He has only ever had one unique name...YHWH. (Psalm 83:18)