How Do You Define Death?

[Base12]

Yes, we are together on it thus far. Jesus brought to men the possibilities cast aside by their first carnal parents. Jesus effectively gave to each of us the opportunity to do better than that first man Adam had done... to actually take hold of and to partake of the other Tree, the Tree of Life which was blocked when men were put outside of the garden gate. We still could do it wrong, but without Jesus the opportunity for whosoever will to do it right was not there.

Hey Amadeus, if you have 30 seconds to spare, you can fast forward to 26:00 in the following video...

This is a Rabbi that agrees that the skins were what we have now.

At least you have another Witness to add to the list.

 

[April_Rose]

Bible (God) doesn't teach that. Satan does though, see Genesis 3.

I know that but their response didn't make any sense to the person that they were responding to.

 

[WaterSong]

What does that have to do with reincarnation though?

Because that scripture in Ecclesiastes refutes fully the false teaching of Reincarnation. The soul returns to God. It is not reborn to live this life in another time, in another body, as a different individual, over and over again.
Reincarnation is neither implied nor stated in scripture outright. There are many false teachers bearing the name Christian today. Sadly, they have flocks that attend to their teachings.
Those who teach Reincarnation are false. reincarnation | Definition & Facts
Just as those who teach soul sleep are false and in that case, misunderstand scripture. The soul does not sleep in the grave awaiting the rapture. Ecclesiastes is Old Testament. Trust what the Teacher said there.
Bible: The Old Testament: Ecclesiastes | SparkNotes

 

[ReChoired]

Jesus died and took the thief to Paradise for just a couple days

No.

Jesus and the thief said:

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

When? When Jesus came into His Kingdom. The Thief understood that the resurrection needed to take place first.

Luk_14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Jesus further said:

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Further it is written of Jesus exactly where He was:

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Just as in Job:

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

 

[April_Rose]

No.

Jesus and the thief said:

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

When? When Jesus came into His Kingdom. The Thief understood that the resurrection needed to take place first.

Luk_14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Jesus further said:

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Further it is written of Jesus exactly where He was:

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Just as in Job:

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

All that I believe to be true and notice how it mentions the word today although it's separated into two words.

 

[WaterSong]

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[WaterSong]

No.

Jesus and the thief said:

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

When? When Jesus came into His Kingdom. The Thief understood that the resurrection needed to take place first.

Luk_14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Jesus further said:

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Further it is written of Jesus exactly where He was:

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Just as in Job:

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

Two things if I may. Paradise and Heaven are the same place.
Secondly, the Matthew 6 verse speaks of the flesh was laid in the tomb after Jesus was crucified. Jesus was not in that casing. As we may remember, from the cross and just before he died he commended his spirit to the father. The father is in Heaven. The third Heaven of all the three that are in scripture.
Also, Job 21:32 is speaking of and to the wicked.
Bible Gateway passage: Job 21 - New English Translation

 

[liafailrock]

Is this verse talking about a physical death, spiritual death, or both? Since isn't praising the Lord what we do in Heaven? Psalms 115:17

Notice how reading the bible seems to sometimes challenge what has been taught. You read correctly. A person who dies awaits the resurrection. Both good and evil will be resurrected to either eternal life or to damnation. So that verse is correct. That's because a person who dies has no knowledge nor wisdom in the grave. They don't know they were even a person, they know nothing because they have no consciousness. We all sin and the soul that sins will die. There's no separation of body and spirit.

 

[April_Rose]

There's no separation of body and spirit.

Doesn't the Bible teach the opposite though?

 

[WaterSong]

... There's no separation of body and spirit.

Where is the scripture that states precisely that please?

 

[BarneyFife]

Is this verse talking about a physical death, spiritual death, or both? Since isn't praising the Lord what we do in Heaven? Psalms 115:17

This is a good explanation:
Are The Dead Really Dead? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

 

[BarneyFife]

Here is a short (15 minutes) audio presentation on the subject of death:
5 Minutes After Death (Audio) | Joe Crews Radio Sermons | Amazing Facts

 

[WaterSong]

This is a good explanation:
Are The Dead Really Dead? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

Just as an FYI to April_Rose and others, "Amazing Facts" is a Seventh Day Adventist apologetics site. SDA believe in soul sleep. IS SOUL SLEEP BIBLICAL? | Christian Research Institute
“Death is not complete annihilation; it is only a state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the resurrection. The Bible repeatedly calls this intermediate state a sleep….The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body, and no Scripture indicates that at death the soul survives as a conscious entity.”

—Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

 

[liafailrock]

Doesn't the Bible teach the opposite though?

Not as a separate spiritual entity apart from the body, no. I'm aware about the spirit that goes back to God, is that which he gave. The spirit in man is a mind capable of interfacing (to put it in computer jargon) with God but is not God's Spirit. The spirit in man is his being, his essence or in computer terms, his software. Software can't function without hardware, nor is it a computer or data floating in space. God remembers that spirit, that which he gave that makes the essence of that man. That's how he can be resurrected. But in and of itself is not conscious nor praises God. King David and other psalm writers never went to heaven (c.f. John 3:13) and where King David was even after the risen Lord (Acts 2:29) but awaits the resurrection (Jeremiah 30:9).

 

[amadeus]

Secondly, the Matthew 6 verse speaks of the flesh was laid in the tomb after Jesus was crucified. Jesus was not in that casing. As we may remember, from the cross and just before he died he commended his spirit to the father. The father is in Heaven. The third Heaven of all the three that are in scripture.

Not many I see speaking of the three heavens. Good to hear you bring it up. But, then again how many will read your post and care enough to pursue it further?

Give God the glory!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Huh?? Aren't we already with Christ after death and that still doesn't answer my question though. :/

What don't you understand?

 

[CharismaticLady]

No.

Jesus and the thief said:

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

When? When Jesus came into His Kingdom. The Thief understood that the resurrection needed to take place first.

Luk_14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Jesus further said:

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Further it is written of Jesus exactly where He was:

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Just as in Job:

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

Why were there Old Testament saints who had died walking around Jerusalem after Jesus also rose from the dead? Where do you think they came from?

 

[WaterSong]

Not as a separate spiritual entity apart from the body, no. I'm aware about the spirit that goes back to God, is that which he gave. The spirit in man is a mind capable of interfacing (to put it in computer jargon) with God but is not God's Spirit. The spirit in man is his being, his essence or in computer terms, his software. Software can't function without hardware, nor is it a computer or data floating in space. God remembers that spirit, that which he gave that makes the essence of that man. That's how he can be resurrected. But in and of itself is not conscious nor praises God. King David and other psalm writers never went to heaven (c.f. John 3:13) and where King David was even after the risen Lord (Acts 2:29) but awaits the resurrection (Jeremiah 30:9).

John 3:13, both Elijah and Enoch were taken up by God into Heaven.

Acts 2:29 is speaking of the risen Christ Jesus, whose body did not know decay in the tomb. This is not speaking of king David's corpse.
“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay."

Jeremiah 30:9 is referring to the living king David who will be raised up to lead the people. Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

The Spirit gives life. God is that spirit. God is Spirit and we must worship him in spirit. Whereas that Spirit gave man the ability to become a living soul.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 1
The Hebrew word for spirit is, rûwach.

Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the (8) Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.' The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don't know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8

When God takes away our breath we return to the dust from whence we sprang. Psalm 104


It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

 

[BarneyFife]

"Amazing Facts" is a Seventh Day Adventist apologetics site.

According to militant evangelicals, every Seventh-day Adventist website is apologetic, sheep-stealing, etc..

The Bible is clear about what death is.







1. How did humans get here in the first place?

“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).



Answer: God made us from dust in the beginning.





2. What happens when a person dies?

“Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).



Answer: The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies—whether saved or unsaved—returns to God at death.









3. What is the “spirit” that returns to God at death?

“The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26).

“The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV).



Answer: The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God’s book does the “spirit” have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the “breath of life” and nothing more.



These four people are four souls.





4. What is a "soul"?

“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7 KJV).



Answer: A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God’s Word teaches that we are souls—not that we have souls.





Body(Dust) - Breath(Spirit) = Death (No Soul)





5. Do souls die?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20 KJV).

“Every living soul died in the sea” (Revelation 16:3 KJV).



Answer: According to God’s Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17).

Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul is not found in the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.





The Bible suggests that King David will be in God’s kingdom, but that he is in his grave now, where he awaits the resurrection.





6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).

“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).

“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13 KJV).



Answer: No. People do not go to heaven or to hell at death. They don’t go anywhere—but they wait in their graves for the resurrection.

 

[BarneyFife]

7. How much does one know or comprehend after death?

“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).

“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).



Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!





Though millions think it is possible, the dead cannot communicate with the living.





8. But can’t the dead communicate with the living, and aren’t they aware of what the living are doing?

“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it” (Job 14:12, 21).

“Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:6).



Answer: No. The dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4 KJV).









9. Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead “sleep” in John 11:11–14. How long will they sleep?

“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more” (Job 14:12).

“The day of the Lord will come … in which the heavens will pass away” (2 Peter 3:10).



Answer: The dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.









10. What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).

“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).

“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).



Answer: They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.









11. What was the devil’s first lie on Earth?

“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4).

“That serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9).



Answer: You will not die.









12. Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than we think?

Answer: The devil’s lie that we will not die is one of the pillars of his teachings. For thousands of years, he has worked powerful, deceptive miracles to trick people into thinking they are receiving messages from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt—Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor—1 Samuel 28:3–25; Sorcerers—Daniel 2:2; A slave girl—Acts 16:16–18.)



A Solemn Warning

In the near future, Satan will again use sorcery—as he did in the prophet Daniel’s day—to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.



Posing as Jesus' Disciples

Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will likely be deceived.





All miracle working is not from God, because devils also work miracles.





13. Do devils really work miracles?

“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14, KJV).

“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).



Answer: Yes indeed! Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan will appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God’s elect will not be deceived.









14. Why will God's people not be deceived?

“They received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11).

“If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).



Answer: God’s people will know from their study of His book that the dead are dead, not alive. They will know that a “spirit” claiming to be a deceased loved one is really a devil! God’s people will reject all teachers and miracle workers who claim to receive special “light” or work miracles by contacting the spirits of the dead. And God’s people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anywhere.