How does God lead?

[Dave L]

Funny how His Spirit speaks truth to ours ♥

How do you know which spirit?

 

[Episkopos]

“Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (1 Corinthians 13:7–10) (KJV 1900)

Is the bible perfect? Does it do a better job than the revelatory gifts did? (Be careful, we are speaking about God's word here).

You think that the perfect is the bible?

Paul is talking about the new age to come. Why would the bible supercede the bible and create a new new testament?

You have invented a new undocumented testament? When was the NEW testament put out of date?

 

[Dave L]

You think that the perfect is the bible?

Paul is talking about the new age to come. Why would the bible supercede the bible and create a new new testament?

You have invented a new undocumented testament? When was the NEW testament put out of date?

Those with low regard for scripture seek other sources of revelation to their own misfortune. Scripture completely furnishes believers with all we need. Beyond scripture you are in the devil's domain.

 

[GodsGrace]

We should begin a thread because much of what Christians believe today comes from sources other than scripture. You can check yourself out by pick something you believe, and then documenting it with scripture. Some examples of popular false doctrines are, denial of the trinity, denial of Christ's deity, 7 year tribulation, pre-trib rapture, speaking in tongues, prophecy, visions, millennium, and plenty more.

Here are some more:
Word of Faith
Hyper Grace
Predestination
Eternal Security

The rapture: This is not supported by all theologians and is a new idea that came with the Reformation.

The rapture could actually mean the opposite of what many believe.
Two will be seated and one will be taken away...
Perhaps what was meant was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 or the martyrdom of Christians in the Roman Empire that wanted to kill Christianity.

Two will be seated...one will be left
but one will be taken away to be PERSECUTED.
It's actually the one that's left seating that will be saved.

Shocking, isn't it?

 

[Dave L]

Here are some more:
Word of Faith
Hyper Grace
Predestination
Eternal Security

The rapture: This is not supported by all theologians and is a new idea that came with the Reformation.

The rapture could actually mean the opposite of what many believe.
Two will be seated and one will be taken away...
Perhaps what was meant was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 or the martyrdom of Christians in the Roman Empire that wanted to kill Christianity.

Two will be seated...one will be left
but one will be taken away to be PERSECUTED.
It's actually the one that's left seating that will be saved.

Shocking, isn't it?

Free will is possibly the biggest false doctrine. Because we live in a world dependent on it. Laws and responsibility for wrongful acts depend on it. So we naturally approach the scriptures with this bias. But as we study, we find God sustains and controls all for his glory including people's choices.

 

[GodsGrace]

Free will is possibly the biggest false doctrine. Because we live in a world dependent on it. Laws and responsibility for wrongful acts depend on it. So we naturally approach the scriptures with this bias. But as we study, we find God sustains and controls all for his glory including people's choices.

OK. I DO believe in free will.

The problem is how does one reconcile this with the sovereignty of God.
THIS is the problem.

We can't. However, free will is all over the O.T. and the N.T.
D, if we don't have free will, it would mean that God is responsible for sin, for evil, etc.

I DO agree that nothing happens without God's permission.
huh?

Yes. WE do the sinning...God ALLOWS it to happen.
IF He wanted to He could stop it, but He doesn't and we can't know why.

God holds up the universe and all live.
Nothing happens without His allowing it.
This doesn't mean we don't have free will.
Free will: Having the ability to make a moral choice without an outside influence to force that choice.

 

[Dave L]

OK. I DO believe in free will.

The problem is how does one reconcile this with the sovereignty of God.
THIS is the problem.

We can't. However, free will is all over the O.T. and the N.T.
D, if we don't have free will, it would mean that God is responsible for sin, for evil, etc.

I DO agree that nothing happens without God's permission.
huh?

Yes. WE do the sinning...God ALLOWS it to happen.
IF He wanted to He could stop it, but He doesn't and we can't know why.

God holds up the universe and all live.
Nothing happens without His allowing it.
This doesn't mean we don't have free will.
Free will: Having the ability to make a moral choice without an outside influence to force that choice.

It is easy to reconcile Free will and sovereignty if you realize people choose what they want, but God controls the reasons they base their choices on. And so God controls them through their own desires.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is easy to reconcile Free will and sovereignty if you realize people choose what they want, but God controls the reasons they base their choices on. And so God controls them through their own desires.

Hmmm. That sounds very calvinistic to me.
Very tricky of God...making persons desire what HE desires so they THINK they have free will.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hagin had zero scripture to support most of his claims. As did Kenyon and any of his other successors. Beyond the bible you are in the devil's territory.

He had scripture. You've got so many holes in your Bible of scriptures you've deleted that you don't believe are for today, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Dave L]

Hmmm. That sounds very calvinistic to me.
Very tricky of God...making persons desire what HE desires so they THINK they have free will.

I'm not a Calvinist but think the first 3 of the 5 points are correct. But if you consider the will never acts, it only ever reacts, then it is possible to understand how God sends the reasons we base our choices on. So we do what we want while doing what God wants us to do.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not a Calvinist but think the first 3 of the 5 points are correct. But if you consider the will never acts, it only ever reacts, then it is possible to understand how God sends the reasons we base our choices on. So we do what we want while doing what God wants us to do.

Difficult to battle this with you because of your position.

How do you explain Philemon 1:14?

Later...

 

[Dave L]

He had scripture. You've got so many holes in your Bible of scriptures you've deleted that you don't believe are for today, you don't know what you're talking about.

Hagin is responsible for many deaths in the WOF movement. Jesus said he came so we could have life and have it more abundantly.

 

[Dave L]

Difficult to battle this with you because of your position.

How do you explain Philemon 1:14?

Later...

“but without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.” (Philemon 14) (KJV 1900)

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hagin is responsible for many deaths in the WOF movement. Jesus said he came so we could have life and have it more abundantly.

That is bearing false witness.

 

[Dave L]

That is bearing false witness.

Not at all. I know first hand of at least 100 people in a WOF church who died from easily treated illnesses or conditions who were under his teaching by proxy.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not at all. I know first hand of at least 100 people in a WOF church who died from easily treated illnesses or conditions who were under his teaching by proxy.

If you are talking about people who are using their faith for healing, then you can also bear false witness against Jesus, and the prophets and apostles who wrote the scriptures they are basing their faith on. You're unbelievable!

But this is why verses like John 15:7 uses the word rhema. When you receive the rhema, that is when you can stand on a scripture and it will come to pass, such as for healing. That is when you receive the supernatural gift of faith in 1 Cor. 12 to see the fulfillment. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the rhema of God.

It is not Hagin's fault if people jump the gun and don't wait for a rhema. They would have gotten ahead of themselves, and didn't wait on the Lord. That is not what Hagin taught. He taught rhemas. Rhemas are the most important element regarding faith. It is the difference between your own will and God's will. When God speaks to you, or quickens a scripture to stand on, believe me, you can take it to the bank! Your own will produces failure. God's will results in miracles. You like to discount rhemas and try to disparage it and make fun of me. Have at it. "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Why do you think Kenneth Hagin founded a college called, Rhema Bible College! He emphasized its importance by naming his college after it! And thousands have been healed supernaturally! "those who wait on the Lord, They shall inherit the earth."

Isaiah 40:31
But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[Dave L]

If you are talking about people who are using their faith for healing, then you can also bear false witness against Jesus, and the prophets and apostles who wrote the scriptures they are basing their faith on. You're unbelievable!

But this is why verses like John 15:7 uses the word rhema. When you receive the rhema, that is when you can stand on a scripture and it will come to pass, such as for healing. That is when you receive the supernatural gift of faith in 1 Cor. 12 to see the fulfillment. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the rhema of God.

It is not Hagin's fault if people jump the gun and don't wait for a rhema. They would have gotten ahead of themselves, and didn't wait on the Lord. That is not what Hagin taught. He taught rhemas. Rhemas are the most important element regarding faith. It is the difference between your own will and God's will. When God speaks to you, or quickens a scripture to stand on, believe me, you can take it to the bank! Your own will produces failure. God's will results in miracles. You like to discount rhemas and try to disparage it and make fun of me. Have at it. "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Why do you think Kenneth Hagin founded a college called, Rhema Bible College! He emphasized its importance by naming his college after it! And thousands have been healed supernaturally! "those who wait on the Lord, They shall inherit the earth."

Isaiah 40:31
But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

How many people did Jesus kill trying to heal them?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How many people did Jesus kill trying to heal them?

Mark 6:
4 But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.

All without faith He did not heal. They would have died? Was that Jesus' fault? And neither is Hagin at fault. Obviously the point of my post went over your head. Your lack of reasoning and understanding is astounding! Psalms 1:1; 1 Corinthians 14:38

 

[Dave L]

Mark 6:
4 But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.

All without faith He did not heal. They would have died? Was that Jesus' fault? And neither is Hagin at fault. Obviously the point of my post went over your head. Your lack of reasoning and understanding is astounding! Psalms 1:1; 1 Corinthians 14:38

Jesus healed people. WOF kills people, and it's not their fault. It is a faulty message.

 

[ScottA]

Prove your point from scripture. I'm not allowed to believe anything that scripture does not support.

This I have done.

Have I not given you all of the prophets of old who did not prove with scripture, and also the prophecy of Joel which was confirmed by Peter...all of which is in the scriptures?

But now you act as if I have not, therefore the burden is on you who cannot prove otherwise.