How does God lead?

[ScottA]

But only through the hands of an apostle.

“Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” (Galatians 3:4–5) (KJV 1900)

But it is you who have made that apostolic limitation, not God. For Paul, whom you quote, was not an apostle to the apostles, but to the gentiles (us).

 

[ScottA]

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17) (KJV 1900)

The word of God is many fold: in the scriptures, yes, but also by decree, and in spirit. But the context here is both the scriptures, because Paul spoke to those who were under them, but also by decree and in spirit, because most (the gentiles) were not.

 

[Dave L]

The word of God is many fold: in the scriptures, yes, but also by decree, and in spirit. But the context here is both the scriptures, because Paul spoke to those who were under them, but also by decree and in spirit, because most (the gentiles) were not.

Still lacking solid scriptural evidence.

 

[Dave L]

The word of God is many fold: in the scriptures, yes, but also by decree, and in spirit. But the context here is both the scriptures, because Paul spoke to those who were under them, but also by decree and in spirit, because most (the gentiles) were not.

The discipline we should observe is to never say anything scripture does not first say. It's hard to do because of our indoctrination by different groups. But if we accept the challenge, we find only few of our beliefs come from scripture.

 

[Dave L]

For starters, very personally, with things that are comparable to scripture and comparable in my life also.

Then, scripturally, by the biblical examples of how God has done very similarly with characters in the bible. Even here it is personal too, for I can draw the comparisons, but another not having had the experience would not be able to. Nonetheless, being caught up in the spirit is not an original experience of mine...but of His, and it is He whom I came to and made it so.

Again, without scripture I'm not allowed to believe you.

 

[Dave L]

@Episkopos said
< The mouth speaks from the fulness of the heart...in this case unbelief.

A religious unbeliever would seem to be the worst of both worlds.
But sometimes what we say falls on deaf ears..> end quote.



Oh ouch Dave...
And I wonder just how God feels when He tries so hard to speak to your tightly closed , deaf ears!!

This is why we should listen only to him and not those with ideas foreign to the bible.

 

[Dave L]

Well Dave...you are on a loser my friend.
God is not mute. He is way beyond just a Book...however wonderful and alive the book is..

As is said:-

“A man with an experience of God is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.”

We each hear at many levels...according to faith ...as in the verse below...


John 12. 28 Jesus said...."Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that 1) it thundered: others said, 2) An angel spake to him.
Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of Me, but for your sakes. "

Experience yes. But you will say no way...it was deception.
Then I glory in my 54 years of deception...and you can keep you shallow fears. Because that is what drives your lack of belief FEAR.
Fear of being deceived.

Well I tell you in my years I have had many visions, one not even while in prayer, but an "open" vision, eyes open and not expecting anything! . ...and I've had many powerful dreams.
And once, I heard the audible voice of God. Just like those in the scripture quoted.

It was on Christmas Eve morning...1975

For me, it shook the house, I was sitting up in bed, my husband not yet awake. The voice did not wake him..obviously I shook him awake...!!!

In Psalms David says :- "Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. "

You have said time and again what God does not do...in your own life you have bound Him. Shame on you Dave.

You are limiting God by rejecting his word and listening to those who cannot support their claims from scripture.

 

[Dave L]

If you are holding on to 1 Corinthians 13 as your proof that the gifts ended before the covenant ends, you are basing your views on a strawman. Do you honestly believe Paul would imply that when his letters are gathered together in one place, that it is "the perfect"? I guess you do. No, if you read to the end of the chapter, the perfect is seeing and knowing God FACE TO FACE. The Bible is still seeing God through a dark glass - far from perfect or you would know more than you do.

We are not speaking of 1 Corinthians 13 yet. But I have plenty to say about it later. But based on it, you must not think the bible is perfect.

 

[Dave L]

Actually, I know the difference between Logos and Rhema. Once you've been baptized with the Holy Spirit and actually experience Rhemas, you find they are the difference between night and day. To receive 100% answers to prayer, I ALWAYS wait for the Rhema before I pray. And the awesome answer comes immediately as if supernaturally, because it is.

So only people who pray as you do receive answers to prayer? Again, you sound too much like Hagin and his offshoots for comfort. As a Christian, I'm not allowed to believe you unless you produce solid scriptural evidence for what you are saying.

 

[amadeus]

Seems that I look that this matter rather differently from various posters.

For me Scripture is final revelation.

If it is, how is it that it is understood so differently at times by different people? Early Catholics followed the written scripture. The early and middle and late Protestants also followed the written scriptures but as this thread and this forum confirm people who read and study the scriptures disagree with each other. The final interpreter is the Holy Spirt.

Then people will say why do two who claim the Holy Spirit within themselves still disagree? One reason is that people are in different places even while they are growing closer to God. Another is that everyone or nearly everyone at time quenches the Holy Spirit following their own heads instead of following the Lord. This mixture of my own conclusions and those supplied by the Holy Spirit in us is a source of confusion:

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

Sometimes people presume that every conclusion they make regarding the scriptures is of the Holy Spirit in them. Somewhere along the way they took their eyes off of their first love and took on a delusion. The question to ask and answer is perhaps, how does a person avoid such a delusion?

 

[ScottA]

Scripture is our only reliable resource. Vibes, visions, and the like will always lead astray.

Dave, that is not biblical.

In fact visions and all spiritual activity began with God. Is there evil spiritual activity also? Of course, but that does not cancel our God's own spiritual activity.

 

[Episkopos]

Actually, I know the difference between Logos and Rhema. Once you've been baptized with the Holy Spirit and actually experience Rhemas, you find they are the difference between night and day. To receive 100% answers to prayer, I ALWAYS wait for the Rhema before I pray. And the awesome answer comes immediately as if supernaturally, because it is.

What do you mean by a rhema before you pray?

 

[GodsGrace]

What is LOGOS?

Logos signifies in classical Greek both "reason" and "word." Though in Biblical Greek the term is mostly employed in the sense of "word," we cannot properly dissociate the two significations. Every word implies a thought. It is impossible to imagine a time when God was without thought. Hence, thought must be eternal as the Deity.

The translation "thought" is probably the best equivalent for the Greek term, since it denotes, on the one hand, the faculty of reason, or the thought inwardly conceived in the mind; and, on the other hand, the thought outwardly expressed through the vehicle of language.

The two ideas, thought and speech, are indubitably blended in the term logos; and in every employment of the word, in philosophy and Scripture, both notions of thought and its outward expression are intimately connected.

source: Logos Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary


What is RHEMA?

According to the venerable Strong's Concordance (#G4487), Rhema means an utterance (individually, collectively or specifically) on a particular matter or topic. Thayer's Greek Definitions defines the word as something that has been uttered, in either the past or the present, by a living entity.

The first time Rhema is used in the New Testament is during Jesus' forty-day temptation by Satan. Jesus, after being tempted to feed himself through a miracle after fasting for a long period, responds with the following.

But He (Jesus) answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word (Rhema) that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'" (Matthew 4:4, HBFV)

source: RHEMA Definition

 

[Dave L]

Dave, that is not biblical.

In fact visions and all spiritual activity began with God. Is there evil spiritual activity also? Of course, but that does not cancel our God's own spiritual activity.

Any visions today have no support from scripture. Scripture thoroughly furnishes us. You say it does not, more is needed.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

 

[Episkopos]

The discipline we should observe is to never say anything scripture does not first say. It's hard to do because of our indoctrination by different groups. But if we accept the challenge, we find only few of our beliefs come from scripture.

Speak for yourself arbitrary Dave!

 

[Episkopos]

Any visions today have no support from scripture. Scripture thoroughly furnishes us. You say it does not, more is needed.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

Except the scriptures you don't agree with.

 

[Dave L]

Speak for yourself arbitrary Dave!

You would be amazed how many things Christians believe today that are no where found in the bible.

 

[Dave L]

Except the scriptures you don't agree with.

Let's see which ones don't agree.

 

[Nancy]

I left an AOG church for preaching the same thing, but mainly because I received a dream from God that I couldn't shake off. It showed that congregation as just being a social club.

Funny how His Spirit speaks truth to ours ♥

 

[friend of]

I believe God does speak and interact with his children personally and that we grow into this relationship. But I don't take visions, vibes, rhema, messages from others as authoritative (especially not over scripture)