How Jesus has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World unto God.

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Robert Pate

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You say everyone is reconciled to God, thats universalism. You either are universalist or believe men can lose their Salvation or Reconciliation.
No, it is not universalism. Universalists believe that everyone is saved regardless of what they believe. Once we believe we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is no unsealing. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, that means that he has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. also John 3:17. Jesus is Lord, he is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil. If Jesus did not defeat sin death and the devil he would not be in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.
 

brightfame52

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No, it is not universalism. Universalists believe that everyone is saved regardless of what they believe. Once we believe we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is no unsealing. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, that means that he has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. also John 3:17. Jesus is Lord, he is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil. If Jesus did not defeat sin death and the devil he would not be in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.
It is universalism, you stated everyone is reconciled to God by His death for them. Now that's either universalism, or you believe men somehow undo what Christ did and lose their reconciliation.
 

Robert Pate

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It is universalism, you stated everyone is reconciled to God by His death for them. Now that's either universalism, or you believe men somehow undo what Christ did and lose their reconciliation.
God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God. Jesus now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Having put ALL THINGS under him. Christ's victory over sin, death and the devil is our victory. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.
 

brightfame52

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God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God. Jesus now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Having put ALL THINGS under him. Christ's victory over sin, death and the devil is our victory. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.
Like I said you either believe man loses reconciliation/salvation or you believe in universalism, if you believe Christs death reconciled all humanity to God.
 

Robert Pate

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Like I said you either believe man loses reconciliation/salvation or you believe in universalism, if you believe Christs death reconciled all humanity to God.
Not only did Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God by his death, but we are also saved and reconciled unto God by his life. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand in God's holy court as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. If you don't believe that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, then you probably believe that Jesus should be removed from his position as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.
 

rwb

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Not only did Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God by his death, but we are also saved and reconciled unto God by his life. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand in God's holy court as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. If you don't believe that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, then you probably believe that Jesus should be removed from his position as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

You said, "Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God" - who exactly do you mean has been reconciled to God along with the world?
 

Robert Pate

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You said, "Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God" - who exactly do you mean has been reconciled to God along with the world?
Everyone has already been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. However, nothing is ours until it is received by faith.
 
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brightfame52

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Not only did Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God by his death, but we are also saved and reconciled unto God by his life. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand in God's holy court as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. If you don't believe that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, then you probably believe that Jesus should be removed from his position as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.
Again you either believe in universalism or that man loses his Salvation, undo what God has done.
 

Robert Pate

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Again you either believe in universalism or that man loses his Salvation, undo what God has done.
You don't understand the Gospel and justification by faith, which is a concern. It is not possible for a born-again Christian to lose his salvation.
 

Robert Pate

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You said, "Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God" - who exactly do you mean has been reconciled to God along with the world?
The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. All sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Jesus as God's representative has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Salvation has been provided for everyone Hebrews 2:9.
 

brightfame52

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You don't understand the Gospel and justification by faith, which is a concern. It is not possible for a born-again Christian to lose his salvation.
I understand your false teaching equates to either universalism or men lose their salvation.
 

rwb

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The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. All sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Jesus as God's representative has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Salvation has been provided for everyone Hebrews 2:9.

I read from Scripture that eternal life (salvation) is only for whosoever from among this world believe by grace through faith, the gift (salvation) that comes from God. Read in context. Hebrews 2:9-13 shows us that Jesus brings many, not all sons unto glory, and they are the children given Him from God. To taste death for every man is not all inclusive, but is to the many whom God has given Him, from throughout the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9-13 (KJV) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
 

Robert Pate

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I read from Scripture that eternal life (salvation) is only for whosoever from among this world believe by grace through faith, the gift (salvation) that comes from God. Read in context. Hebrews 2:9-13 shows us that Jesus brings many, not all sons unto glory, and they are the children given Him from God. To taste death for every man is not all inclusive, but is to the many whom God has given Him, from throughout the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9-13 (KJV) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
If Jesus has tasted death for everybody that means that salvation has been provided for everybody. This salvation can become ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, Ephesians 2:8.
 

brightfame52

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If Jesus has tasted death for everybody that means that salvation has been provided for everybody. This salvation can become ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, Ephesians 2:8.
If Jesus tasted death for everyone, without exception, then everyone without exception shall be saved. Everyone Jesus tasted death for has by His death been reconciled to God, and shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So you either believe in universalism or you believe people who Christ died for can lose their reconciliation to God made by Christs death.
 
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rwb

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If Jesus has tasted death for everybody that means that salvation has been provided for everybody. This salvation can become ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, Ephesians 2:8.

Since you believe Jesus tasted death for everybody to ever live, yet many have died are dying and shall die in unbelief, are some whom Jesus tasted death for able to resist the will of God? If Christ tasted death for all of humanity without exception, why does His death not provide forgiveness for their sins of unbelief? Is Christ, or is He not the propitiation for sins?

1 John 2:2 (KJV) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

Robert Pate

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Since you believe Jesus tasted death for everybody to ever live, yet many have died are dying and shall die in unbelief, are some whom Jesus tasted death for able to resist the will of God? If Christ tasted death for all of humanity without exception, why does His death not provide forgiveness for their sins of unbelief? Is Christ, or is He not the propitiation for sins?

1 John 2:2 (KJV) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus tasted death for everyone. This includes all sinners. Grace does not cover unbelief, like you want to believe. If you don't receive what God has done for you in Jesus Christ, it is not yours.
 

rwb

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The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus tasted death for everyone. This includes all sinners. Grace does not cover unbelief, like you want to believe. If you don't receive what God has done for you in Jesus Christ, it is not yours.

I'm sorry Robert, but the Bible does not plainly teach this! You must read this into the Bible and ignore how your unbiblical doctrine forces God to contradict Himself. If you don't understand that each verse of Scripture must be in harmony and agreement, then you will always err in your understanding of Scripture.
 

Robert Pate

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I'm sorry Robert, but the Bible does not plainly teach this! You must read this into the Bible and ignore how your unbiblical doctrine forces God to contradict Himself. If you don't understand that each verse of Scripture must be in harmony and agreement, then you will always err in your understanding of Scripture.
I suspect that you are a Calvinist. The Bible does teach what I said, you just don't want to believe it.
 

rwb

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I suspect that you are a Calvinist. The Bible does teach what I said, you just don't want to believe it.

Typical response of people who can't address the FACT that their understanding of Scripture forces God's Word to contradict itself! You don't seem to understand that the Word of God is a cohesive WHOLE! You can't just grab a verse here and a verse there because they APPEAR TO SUPPORT what you THINK the Bible teaches. There's a name for people like that also, but I find attacking the character of other Christians is something that God frowns upon.
 

Robert Pate

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Typical response of people who can't address the FACT that their understanding of Scripture forces God's Word to contradict itself! You don't seem to understand that the Word of God is a cohesive WHOLE! You can't just grab a verse here and a verse there because they APPEAR TO SUPPORT what you THINK the Bible teaches. There's a name for people like that also, but I find attacking the character of other Christians is something that God frowns upon.
I have been studying the Bible for over 50 years, I understand it completely. For 20 of those 50 years, I was privileged to read the writings of some of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time. There are no contradictions in the Bible. Many like yourself do not understand the implications of the New Covenant, the Gospel and justification by faith. If you want to refute what I believe, please do it with scripture, otherwise it is nothing but hot air.
 
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