How Many Christians Believe When We DIE, Our Human Spirit Goes Instantly To HEAVEN?

[Aunty Jane]

Try to make that THEORY Fly with this Verse:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

There are many theories but only one truth….that is a fact. And believing something doesn’t make it true. That is also a fact. We give opinions here and it’s good to evaluate what others say when scripture is quoted but not fully understood by the one quoting it.

It is good to read scripture in different translations to see if there is an overall truth hiding in these verses that people put up to prove their beliefs….but better still to look up a concordance to see what the original language words mean. Then the picture becomes clearer to the genuine seeker.
The bonded part that is rendered in that particular translation says “before time began”……when was that exactly?
Some render that as “before the world began”, or “before the ages began” or “before the times of the ages”…..so what is this actually saying?

When exactly did God plan for Jesus to save the human race through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ?
Was it even before Adam sinned? And if it was, then did God plan also for that to happen? Were the humans doomed to fail if that was the case…..and if so why would God set them up for failure knowing what a terrible life of sin and misery awaited them?

And when DID HE WRITE our Names in the Book of LIFE?

Names written in the Book of Life are those who have, by their faith and conduct, merited a place there, but it is not indelible until the final test at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and his priesthood. Only then is the entry permanent. All must pass that final test.

Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:

Again we see a familiar expression…...”from the founding of the world”….this does not mean ‘from the creation of the planet’….it is “the foundation of the kosmos” (the world of mankind) who descended from Adam and his wife. Before Adam and his wife chose to sin, there was no need for Christ to lay down his life.

It was their children that needed saving because they inherited sin from them….God never planned for them to sin, but made provision for the choices they could have made. There were several….including the choice the devil himself made to become a rebel. All had free will.

1) Satan could have contemplated the consequences of his plan to kidnap the human race for his own selfish reasons, and made the choice to abandon it.

2) Once tempted, the woman quoted God’s command concerning the eating of the forbidden fruit, so she could have rejected his temptation and God would have removed satan from the garden and dealt with him appropriately…..and the humans would have lived happily ever after.
....OR….
3) The woman having fallen for the devil’s lies (as the Bible says that she was “thoroughly deceived”) offered the fruit to her husband saying that she didn’t die, so it was good to eat. Adam then had the choice of accepting her temptation to join her in disobedience, or rejecting it to remain obedient to his God, rather than to side with his disobedient wife. If he had chosen to side with God, then another scenario would have resulted.

But the third scenario is the one that threw the whole human race ‘under the bus’, both ate of the fruit, resulting in Jesus being “sent” to rescue Adam’s children, born in sin through no fault on their part. (Rom 5:12)
The first prophesy in Genesis 3:15, addressed to the serpent, was made after the fall, and it remained somewhat of a mystery until the “seed” came in the person of Jesus Christ, who was dealt a “heel” wound by the devil’s children, (from which he recovered when God resurrected him) before he was to deliver a final crushing head wound to the serpent. (Still to come)

So I believe it is you who has read the scriptures incorrectly, taking things at face value instead of researching them with the aid of the resources available to all of us on the net.

 

[rwb]

Scripture says man becomes a living soul. It also makes reference in Revelation 20 to the souls of the dead. The soul is the being you become, the unique individual that you are that has consciousness.

Yes, Scripture does say that man became a living soul, and that living soul is a physical body of flesh & bone, and a breath of life that is man's unseen spirit that returns to God when our physical body dies. The living souls in Rev 20 have been physically killed. As spiritual body of believers they are in heaven still living souls. That's because in life they died in faith. That's why John sees them alive in heaven without physical form. Because those who die in faith of Christ have eternal life and can never die. So in death they spiritually ascended to heaven living souls because physical death could not kill the eternal life they have through the spirit that returns to God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Scripture says man becomes a living soul. It also makes reference in Revelation 20 to the souls of the dead. The soul is the being you become, the unique individual that you are that has consciousness.

Yes, man “became a living soul“ with the “breath (spirit) of life”. When the last breath left his body, that soul died. We all souls die the same death. (Ezekiel 18:4) A body devoid of breath is a dead body. The spirit is not some conscious part of man that departs from the body at death to go somewhere else…..nowhere does scripture teach this.
Eccl 9:5, 10….
”For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave,[sheol] where you are going.”

“Sheol“ is the Hebrew word for the grave, and the Greek Septuagint translates “sheol” as “hades”…..so instead of “hell”, “hades“ is merely the grave…the resting place of all humanity. The dead know nothing.
They cannot think or plan or experience life in any way. There is no suffering because there is no consciousness. Death is like a sleep, from which God will awaken us. (John 5:28-29)
If the dead are not really dead then there can be no resurrection…..you cannot resurrect someone who is not dead.

As for the “souls” of those seen in John’s Revelation, remember that this is a highly symbolic book and so we have a picture painted of those who have been executed because of their faith…the martyrs.
”Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God”.

Rev 6:9-11 also speaks about these” souls”…
”When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.”

Again we cannot take this literally because this is speaking about those who were martyred from the first century onward. The full number of their “brothers” in Christ had to be filled before their blood was to be avenged.
Have they been sitting there under the alter for the last 2000 years complaining?

You cannot take much of anything in Revelation to be literal. It was presented in “signs” or symbols.…the meanings of which would become clearer as “the time of the end” approached.

 

[MatthewG]

To me, the human spirit is synonmous with the soul. Gods created angels are his created angel or angelic beings. They you could say have a heavenly spirit, though some of them left their once held position, and perhaps disagreed with God. Some suggest even the angels God created, were jealous when Yahava created humans.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: How many believe spirit/soul goes to heaven?

study here:

Confusion of "What Is Death"

Amen.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I would LOVE to have everyone Agree on something, but I fear this is not it.

I absolutely believe that when we die, our human Spirit, if we are truly BORN AGAIN, goes directly to Heaven to Be with the LORD.

In order to be correct on this matter, it is important to understand that the "human" spirit per se is a fallen spirit, thus the need to be born again of the spirit of God.

Then, yes, the born again spirit, when we die goes instantly to heaven. But during these times, as Paul described saying "we who are alive and remain", one who has been born again of the spirit of God while remaining in the body of flesh which is technically dead, passes "from death to life" within that body--that body which does not ("cannot") accompany one into heaven. Thus, heaven is not so much a geographic place "above" this world, but rather above by status (even within one who remains in possession of the body of flesh until it passes).

VCO I agree with your belief.

Now... Everyone totally ignores... ( granted I have only gotten a couple threads past Scott's reply.. for which I felt this over whelming need to reply. )

The first thing is the need to determine if we have a soul.... which I would say 999 out of 1000 on here will say yes...... if for no other reason then they believe the life God breathed into Adam was a soul. (Save for the scant few translations that calls it a spirit)

OR

If mortal man has a body, soul and spirit.

This is my belief based on a few of biblical verses.

#1. (I already know that there will be some of you who will poo poo this verse, not only as being Old Testament but for a couple of other reasons.) I DO NOT CARE.

NASB95
Eccl 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Septuagint LXX
7 the dust also return to the earth as it was, and the spirit return to God who gave it.

I had always read, and gear that a spirit cannot die or be destroyed. That is why Satan and his bad of fallen angels will spend eternity burning because they are spirit. (Simplified comment)

So, God made our spirits and when we die our spirits go back to God.

I have read nowhere, ever, that only saved Spirits return to God. For it is not our spirits that cause us to falter... it is our spirits that connect us to God.

Following my comments here is a great, easy to understand explanation on things.

B. The other verse that makes a whole lot of sense is

1 Thes 5:23

23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

c. And here is Mathew with a cautionary comment....

Mathew 10:28

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So while 1 Thessalonians....confirms we have a body, soul and spirit.... and Ezekiel tells us it is our spirits that go back to God.

OUR souls , if we are born again , will be saved. If not they will be destroyed.

To me this is perfectly clear.

Even if I overly simplified my beliefs, perhaps the following will help.


WELL.... The following makes this too long... so Ill start chopping off the end and if you are curious about their
conclusions click the link.

How God Created You with a Body, Soul and Spirit to Contain Him - Holding to Truth

Why did God create us? This post goes back to Genesis 1 and 2 to show how God created us with a body, soul and spirit to contain Him and express Him.

holdingtotruth.com

How God Created You with a Body, Soul and Spirit to Contain Him​

by Tom Smith |


Have you ever considered what was God’s intention in creating you? The first two chapters of the Bible give the answer. He made you in His image–with a body, soul and spirit–to contain Him.
Genesis 1:26 says, “And God said, “let us make man in our image after our likeness…” Image and likeness indicate purpose.
For example, a glove is made in the image of a hand with the purpose of containing the hand. Similarly, a guitar case is made in the image of a guitar for the purpose of containing the guitar.
However, your being made in God’s image is not so simple. God made you as a container with three parts—body, soul and spirit—so that you can be filled with Him in order to express Him.
So in this post, we’ll consider how God made us with three parts so that we can contain Him and be filled with Him as life in order to express Him.

God made you with three parts—body, soul and spirit—to contain Him ​

In The Economy of God, Witness Lee says,

“For what purpose did God create man? Only that man might be His container…It is clearly seen in Romans 9:21, 23 and 2 Corinthians 4:7, that God created us to His containers. We are only empty containers, and God intends to be our only content.” (pp. 43-44)

Genesis 2:7, describing the procedure God took to create us as His containers, says:
“…God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.”

God formed man from the “dust of the ground”—the human body​

First, the Bible indicates that God formed man from the “dust of the ground.” We all know that our physical body is of the same elements as the earth.
It is with our body that we are able to live in this material universe. Our body gives us our outward form and is the organ for us to contact the material realm (note 3 on Gen. 2:7 in the Recovery Version) .
We also know that our body is a container for food, water and air. We need to breathe in the air, drink plenty of water, and eat nutritious food. In this way, we can have a healthy body with a proper expression.

God breathed into man’s nostrils “the breath of life”—the human spirit​

Second, God breathed in this earthen container “the breath of life”—the human spirit. This Hebrew word, neshamah, is the same word as for “spirit” in Proverbs 20:27 where it says,
“The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, searching all the innermost parts of the inner being.”
Part of a footnote on the expression “breath of life” in the Recovery Version says,

“Man’s spirit is his inward organ for him to contact God, receive God, contain God, and assimilate God into his entire being as his life and his everything…The spirit of man is for man to worship God, to be regenerated by God, and to be joined to God that man may walk and live in an organic union with God to fulfill God’s purpose.” (Gen. 2:7, note 5, par. 1)

So our human spirit is the center of our being and the crucial part that enables us to contact God, receive God and contain God so that we can express God and fulfill His purpose in making us. For a deeper understanding of your spirit, you may also want to read, “What is the Function of Your Spirit?”
It’s really good to stop and thank God for creating you with a spirit to contact, receive and contain Him. Simply tell the Lord,

“O Lord, thank you for creating me with a spirit so that I can contact You, receive You, and contain You. Lord, I’m empty inside. I open to You. Lord Jesus, come into my spirit right now and fill me with Your divine life.”

Man became a “living soul”—the human soul​

The issuing of God breathing the “breath of life,” the human spirit, into man’s physical body is that man became a “living soul.” I can’t express this point any better than the footnote does,

“Man’s soul, which is his person, his very self (Exo. 1:5; Acts 2:41), was not formed from a certain element but was produced by the combining of the human spirit and the human body. The soul, composed of man’s mind, emotion, and will, has the psychological consciousness to contact the psychological realm.”

How wonderful, that God made you a living soul with a mind, emotion and will for His purpose. With your mind, you can receive and understand the words in this post. With your emotion, you can love the wonderful Lord who made you to be filled with Him. And with Your will, you can choose to contact Him, receive Him and contain Him.

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