How Many Christians Believe When We DIE, Our Human Spirit Goes Instantly To HEAVEN?
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The dichotomy that some folks are wont to make from what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:44 ~ "sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body... (t)here is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" is not one of mere substance. The substance, the physicality of the body in both the natural and the spiritual is surely the same; in both cases, we do and will have arms, legs, eyes, ears, etc. The quality of each ~ not the mere physicality ~ is what will differ. Yes, Jesus was raised from the dead in very tangible, physical form, and we ~ Christians ~ who have been united with Him in a death like His shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His (Romans 6:5). But we shall all be changed in an instant, just as Scripture says, but in quality. We will no longer be natural, meaning prone to sin, but spiritual, meaning wholly of the Holy Spirit and prone to only righteousness... like Jesus... conformed to Him.
Grace and peace to all.
Grace and peace to all.
Here is an idea for those who genuinely believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Arrange your Icons so that somewhere near the center of your Icons, is the HELP, that those left behind,
Can easily find the Help they will desperately NEED. Bible Software, Favorite Hymns, and directions of
what not to do, and what to do; will be an encouragement to them. They Need to know they most likely
will become Martyred Saints. Tribulation Saints are most likely all Martyred Saints. Be sure they know this.
I feel time is very short.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Arrange your Icons so that somewhere near the center of your Icons, is the HELP, that those left behind,
Can easily find the Help they will desperately NEED. Bible Software, Favorite Hymns, and directions of
what not to do, and what to do; will be an encouragement to them. They Need to know they most likely
will become Martyred Saints. Tribulation Saints are most likely all Martyred Saints. Be sure they know this.
I feel time is very short.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Morning Michiah,
The term used here "those which sleep" only referes to those who are physically dead.
Only our physical body dies - but never our soul/spirit
1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep/died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/die in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/died.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i hope you're joking here.....because Christ will leave not a single one of His Sheep behind.
Then what is the soul? What is the spirit? You set the bar for two different definitions ...
Here's something I've posted elsewhere on this topic.
First of all, what is the soul? Some equate it with the spirit, but that's not correct. Some think that God gives you a soul which is also not correct. See below repost of mine.
The bible says you become a living soul; you are not given one as some people erroneously believe. God does not hand-out souls. The bible also states that the soul is not the spirit, also as some erroneously believe, and that they can be divided.The bible says that souls came out of the loins of Jacob. The bible also says that God has a soul.
Here's what the bible says regarding the soul. (Pertinent scriptures)
Gen2:7 KJV
"7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
The interlinear Hebrew says "being" (lenepes) not soul
Exodus 1:5 KJV
"And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already."
Souls are in your loins according to this scripture. Here, the interlinear does say "soul" in Hebrew and not "being". Two different Hebrew words; napes or nepes for souls vs. lenepes
And finally, Hebrews 4:12 KJV
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
The interlinear Greek is "phyches" for soul and "pneumatos" for spirit
The soul is the living being we become, our consciousness.
Beg to Differ .....The Bible tells you exactly what takes place ...
Jesus and the criminal die on the cross. Their souls go immediately to Scheol. The two of them at Abraham's Bossum or Paradise ....Not Hades, not hell ...One room. The purpose? To present the Good News and Gospel of Jesus. Three days. When Jesus rises from the grave...that room is empty and closed ......Paul tells of two angels escorting the "saved" to Abraham's Bossum .......good enough to be there. They didn't have Christ yet to save them. He arrives to save them first. Their souls go to be with God while Jesus continues on his mission ......40 days to close the deal with the Apostles ...
Thus the Bible tells you exactly what takes place. One or two angels escortbeliever's into heaven ....... there is no purgatory, no rest stops along the way.
And the definition for Spirit? I think they are one and the same ......Your defense falls short of the mark .....
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You started with the Saints of those prior to the Blood Atonement on the Cross.
YES, all who died in the faith of Abraham/WORD of God went to Heaven after JESUS Atonement.
Today, every Born-Again Saint that dies(flesh) their spirit/souls go directly to Heaven.
If they are one in the same, explain the Hebrews passage quoted which says they can be divided.
David NJ provided the answer .....I asked the question for a clear definition .....Did not claim they were one in the same .....Apologize for any confusion.....
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
I'm told our soul,the living breath of and from the Father, at our death returns to God who gave it.
While the spirit does too being the silver cord is broken first upon our death. Ecclesiastes 12.
Ecclesiastes 12 - CJB Bible - Bible Study Tools
Ecclesiastes 12 So remember your creator while you are young, before the evil days come, and the years approach when you will say, "They no longer give me pleasure"; before the sun and the light grow dim, also the moon and the stars; before the clouds return after t... Read verse in The Complete...
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Absent from the body. That is, from life in the present world.
Present with the Lord. From a superficial reading of vs. 6-8 some have concluded that at death the soul of the Christian goes immediately to be “present with the Lord,” and that Paul, ardently desiring to be with the Lord (v. 2), welcomed death. But in vs. 3, 4 Paul describes death as a state of being “naked,” or “unclothed.” He hopes, if at all possible, to avoid this intermediate state, and ardently desires to be “clothed” with his “house … from heaven.” In other words, he hopes to be translated without seeing death (see on vs. 2-4). Elsewhere (see on 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 2 Tim. 4:6-8; etc.) Paul makes it certain that men are not “clothed” with immortality individually at death, but simultaneously at the resurrection of the just.
Or, to restate it in this way: In 2 Cor. 5:2-4 Paul has already declared that “life,” obviously meaning immortal life, comes when one is “clothed upon” with his “house … from heaven” at the resurrection (see on v. 4), not in the “naked,” or “unclothed,” state of death. In v. 8 he expresses the desire to be “absent from the body” and “present with the Lord,” but it is obvious that being “absent from the body” does not mean being disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”), for in vs. 2-4 he has stated clearly that he does not desire this intermediate state and would avoid it if at all possible. To have “life” (v. 4) and to be “present with the Lord” (v. 8) thus requires possession of the “house … from heaven” (v. 2). Careful scrutiny of Paul’s statements thus clearly and decisively rules out any possibility of a state between death and the resurrection in which, as disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”) spirits, men go to be “present with the Lord.” Compare Rom. 8:22, 23; see on Phil. 1:21-23.
The Bible declares death to be but a sleep from which believers will be awakened at the first resurrection (John 11:11-14, 25, 26; 1 Cor. 15:20, 51-54; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 5:10). It is not until then that both the living and the resurrected saints will be with the Lord (see on 1 Thess. 4:16-18). Neither group precedes the other (cf. Heb. 11:39, 40).
bibletools.info
Kaufmann Kohler, (born May 10, 1843, Fürth, Bavaria [Germany]—died Jan. 28, 1926, New York, N.Y., U.S.), German-American rabbi, one of the most influential theologians of Reform Judaism in the United States. He wrote, quoting The Jewish Encyclopedia,
"The belief that the soul continues it's existence after the dissolution of the body is...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.... The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and purely through the philosophy of Plato, it's principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in the which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended. "The Immortality of the Soul" 1906
Present with the Lord. From a superficial reading of vs. 6-8 some have concluded that at death the soul of the Christian goes immediately to be “present with the Lord,” and that Paul, ardently desiring to be with the Lord (v. 2), welcomed death. But in vs. 3, 4 Paul describes death as a state of being “naked,” or “unclothed.” He hopes, if at all possible, to avoid this intermediate state, and ardently desires to be “clothed” with his “house … from heaven.” In other words, he hopes to be translated without seeing death (see on vs. 2-4). Elsewhere (see on 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 2 Tim. 4:6-8; etc.) Paul makes it certain that men are not “clothed” with immortality individually at death, but simultaneously at the resurrection of the just.
Or, to restate it in this way: In 2 Cor. 5:2-4 Paul has already declared that “life,” obviously meaning immortal life, comes when one is “clothed upon” with his “house … from heaven” at the resurrection (see on v. 4), not in the “naked,” or “unclothed,” state of death. In v. 8 he expresses the desire to be “absent from the body” and “present with the Lord,” but it is obvious that being “absent from the body” does not mean being disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”), for in vs. 2-4 he has stated clearly that he does not desire this intermediate state and would avoid it if at all possible. To have “life” (v. 4) and to be “present with the Lord” (v. 8) thus requires possession of the “house … from heaven” (v. 2). Careful scrutiny of Paul’s statements thus clearly and decisively rules out any possibility of a state between death and the resurrection in which, as disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”) spirits, men go to be “present with the Lord.” Compare Rom. 8:22, 23; see on Phil. 1:21-23.
The Bible declares death to be but a sleep from which believers will be awakened at the first resurrection (John 11:11-14, 25, 26; 1 Cor. 15:20, 51-54; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 5:10). It is not until then that both the living and the resurrected saints will be with the Lord (see on 1 Thess. 4:16-18). Neither group precedes the other (cf. Heb. 11:39, 40).
2 Corinthians 5:8 – BibleTools.info
BibleTools.info is a web app designed to enhance your Bible study experience by providing powerful resources for almost every verse.
bibletools.info
Kaufmann Kohler, (born May 10, 1843, Fürth, Bavaria [Germany]—died Jan. 28, 1926, New York, N.Y., U.S.), German-American rabbi, one of the most influential theologians of Reform Judaism in the United States. He wrote, quoting The Jewish Encyclopedia,
"The belief that the soul continues it's existence after the dissolution of the body is...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.... The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and purely through the philosophy of Plato, it's principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in the which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended. "The Immortality of the Soul" 1906
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
For a Blood Washed Born-Again Saint, their spirit/soul leaves the body of flesh upon the death of the physical body and goes directly to Heaven to be in the presence of the LORD = "absent from the body is to be present with the LORD".Absent from the body. That is, from life in the present world.
Present with the Lord. From a superficial reading of vs. 6-8 some have concluded that at death the soul of the Christian goes immediately to be “present with the Lord,” and that Paul, ardently desiring to be with the Lord (v. 2), welcomed death. But in vs. 3, 4 Paul describes death as a state of being “naked,” or “unclothed.” He hopes, if at all possible, to avoid this intermediate state, and ardently desires to be “clothed” with his “house … from heaven.” In other words, he hopes to be translated without seeing death (see on vs. 2-4). Elsewhere (see on 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 2 Tim. 4:6-8; etc.) Paul makes it certain that men are not “clothed” with immortality individually at death, but simultaneously at the resurrection of the just.
Or, to restate it in this way: In 2 Cor. 5:2-4 Paul has already declared that “life,” obviously meaning immortal life, comes when one is “clothed upon” with his “house … from heaven” at the resurrection (see on v. 4), not in the “naked,” or “unclothed,” state of death. In v. 8 he expresses the desire to be “absent from the body” and “present with the Lord,” but it is obvious that being “absent from the body” does not mean being disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”), for in vs. 2-4 he has stated clearly that he does not desire this intermediate state and would avoid it if at all possible. To have “life” (v. 4) and to be “present with the Lord” (v. 8) thus requires possession of the “house … from heaven” (v. 2). Careful scrutiny of Paul’s statements thus clearly and decisively rules out any possibility of a state between death and the resurrection in which, as disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”) spirits, men go to be “present with the Lord.” Compare Rom. 8:22, 23; see on Phil. 1:21-23.
The Bible declares death to be but a sleep from which believers will be awakened at the first resurrection (John 11:11-14, 25, 26; 1 Cor. 15:20, 51-54; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 5:10). It is not until then that both the living and the resurrected saints will be with the Lord (see on 1 Thess. 4:16-18). Neither group precedes the other (cf. Heb. 11:39, 40).
2 Corinthians 5:8 – BibleTools.info
BibleTools.info is a web app designed to enhance your Bible study experience by providing powerful resources for almost every verse.
Kaufmann Kohler, (born May 10, 1843, Fürth, Bavaria [Germany]—died Jan. 28, 1926, New York, N.Y., U.S.), German-American rabbi, one of the most influential theologians of Reform Judaism in the United States. He wrote, quoting The Jewish Encyclopedia,
"The belief that the soul continues it's existence after the dissolution of the body is...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.... The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and purely through the philosophy of Plato, it's principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in the which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended. "The Immortality of the Soul" 1906
What does not take place, and will not until His Second Coming, is the Resurrection of the Saints 'dead bodies' from the grave and their transformation into "immortal glorified bodies" = 1 Cor ch15
God has revealed to us that a temporary covering is given to each Saint who arrives in Heaven = Rev 6:11 and Rev 7:13-14
"Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed."
"Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
ONLY when Christ Returns and His Resurrection of His Body(ALL the Saints) will the Transformation into:
NEW Immortal Glorified Bodies, in His Image, be Fulfilled = 1 Cor ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Daniel ch12
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Resurrected Saints precedes the rapture of remaining alive Saints = 1 Thess 4:13-18Absent from the body. That is, from life in the present world.
Present with the Lord. From a superficial reading of vs. 6-8 some have concluded that at death the soul of the Christian goes immediately to be “present with the Lord,” and that Paul, ardently desiring to be with the Lord (v. 2), welcomed death. But in vs. 3, 4 Paul describes death as a state of being “naked,” or “unclothed.” He hopes, if at all possible, to avoid this intermediate state, and ardently desires to be “clothed” with his “house … from heaven.” In other words, he hopes to be translated without seeing death (see on vs. 2-4). Elsewhere (see on 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 2 Tim. 4:6-8; etc.) Paul makes it certain that men are not “clothed” with immortality individually at death, but simultaneously at the resurrection of the just.
Or, to restate it in this way: In 2 Cor. 5:2-4 Paul has already declared that “life,” obviously meaning immortal life, comes when one is “clothed upon” with his “house … from heaven” at the resurrection (see on v. 4), not in the “naked,” or “unclothed,” state of death. In v. 8 he expresses the desire to be “absent from the body” and “present with the Lord,” but it is obvious that being “absent from the body” does not mean being disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”), for in vs. 2-4 he has stated clearly that he does not desire this intermediate state and would avoid it if at all possible. To have “life” (v. 4) and to be “present with the Lord” (v. 8) thus requires possession of the “house … from heaven” (v. 2). Careful scrutiny of Paul’s statements thus clearly and decisively rules out any possibility of a state between death and the resurrection in which, as disembodied (“naked,” or “unclothed”) spirits, men go to be “present with the Lord.” Compare Rom. 8:22, 23; see on Phil. 1:21-23.
The Bible declares death to be but a sleep from which believers will be awakened at the first resurrection (John 11:11-14, 25, 26; 1 Cor. 15:20, 51-54; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 5:10). It is not until then that both the living and the resurrected saints will be with the Lord (see on 1 Thess. 4:16-18). Neither group precedes the other (cf. Heb. 11:39, 40).
2 Corinthians 5:8 – BibleTools.info
BibleTools.info is a web app designed to enhance your Bible study experience by providing powerful resources for almost every verse.
Kaufmann Kohler, (born May 10, 1843, Fürth, Bavaria [Germany]—died Jan. 28, 1926, New York, N.Y., U.S.), German-American rabbi, one of the most influential theologians of Reform Judaism in the United States. He wrote, quoting The Jewish Encyclopedia,
"The belief that the soul continues it's existence after the dissolution of the body is...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.... The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and purely through the philosophy of Plato, it's principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in the which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended. "The Immortality of the Soul" 1906
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Satanism/Deception is about changing, altering and reversing the Order of God, for the purpose of questioning God's words and thus opening the door of temptation to add foreign words upon 'that which is written' or to remove/dissuade from "that which is written."
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I've read a few comments and I haven't seen this one written yet _ Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us our bodies goes back to the dust of the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
From that scripture alone it indicates when we die our spirits go back to heaven, what happens after that only God knows.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Three Points here:
#1 - Ecc says our spirits go back to God. This does not mean Heaven.
#2 - the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us = "Someone Greater then Solomon has Come = the MESSIAH"
#3 - The Gospel and the Apostles and Revelation have the correct and accurate answer = no space was given for confusion here.
Great observation Sheila! The question every man/woman on earth must face in this life is this, will our spirit return to God in heaven a living soul or will the spirit that gives mankind physical life return to God in heaven without life? Only the spirit God gives to man indwelt with the Holy Spirit from Christ will leave our body after death and ascend alive to God in heaven a living (spirit) soul. Because when the Spirit of Christ is in us, we have His promise not to leave us until our body too is resurrected immortal and incorruptible and once again alive through our spirit that returns with Christ when He comes again.
Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
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