How many kingdoms in Daniel?

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ewq1938

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No. I wrote that the Antichrist is in Revelation 6 as the rider on the white horse given a crown. But in Revelation 13, he has become the beast-king, no longer the Antichrist - perceived King of Israel messiah.

The person known as the Ac will not become someone else like that. The AC is the AC the entire time that is needed in God's plan. He has many names and titles, beast king is one of them although it is not a term found in scripture but he will be a king or ruler but you are confused as to which of the two beasts he is. The first beast is a kingdom like we see in Danil, something with ten horns. Ity is still a kingdom in Rev as well. The only individual is the second beast, called the false prophet who has two little horns, matching the only individual in Daniel 7, the ruler of the ten horned beast who is called the little horn.

Never does any biblical writer describe the AC and a second person. There is always only the one person, the AC. That one person is the beast with two little horns called the false prophet. There has never been a second person ruling during the trib.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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The person known as the Ac will not become someone else like that. The AC is the AC the entire time that is needed in God's plan. He has many names and titles, beast king is one of them although it is not a term found in scripture but he will be a king or ruler but you are confused as to which of the two beasts he is. The first beast is a kingdom like we see in Danil, something with ten horns. Ity is still a kingdom in Rev as well. The only individual is the second beast, called the false prophet who has two little horns, matching the only individual in Daniel 7, the ruler of the ten horned beast who is called the little horn.
Sorry but the ten horns are ten kingdoms ruled by 10 kings as Daniel declared under Divine Inspiration!

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
 

ewq1938

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Sorry but the ten horns are ten kingdoms ruled by 10 kings as Daniel declared under Divine Inspiration!

Everyone knows that already. Want to contribute something valid and relevant to my post or the topic?
 

Ronald Nolette

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Everyone knows that already. Want to contribute something valid and relevant to my post or the topic?
the horns are ten kings.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

A normal reading of this verse tells one that duiring the fourth beasdt (kingdom) ten kings will arise. It says it in plain Hebrew. English and every other language.
 

ewq1938

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the horns are ten kings.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

A normal reading of this verse tells one that duiring the fourth beasdt (kingdom) ten kings will arise. It says it in plain Hebrew. English and every other language.

The ten horns are ten kings. It's very plain in every language. See? I can state obvious things everyone knows just like you are doing. How does that help the discussion? It doesn't. Perhaps you can post about the ten horns being ten kings again?
 

Douggg

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The person known as the Ac will not become someone else like that. The AC is the AC the entire time that is needed in God's plan. He has many names and titles, beast king is one of them although it is not a term found in scripture but he will be a king or ruler but you are confused as to which of the two beasts he is.
It is not just different names - but different functional roles - just as, for example, Joe Biden became Senator and then later on became President, no longer Senator.

To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought to be messiah by the Jews. After about three years, that role ends as the person reveals himself to be the man of sin in 2Thessalonains2:4.

You are plenty smart enough to understand this.
 

Douggg

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Never does any biblical writer describe the AC and a second person. There is always only the one person, the AC. That one person is the beast with two little horns called the false prophet. There has never been a second person ruling during the trib.
The false prophet is not a king. In Revelation 17:11 the beast is the 8th king. During his rule, as the beast-king, the ten horns have their crowns in Revelation 13, and will rule with him (albeit under the beast-king's command).

In Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

ewq1938

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The false prophet is not a king.


He is though. He is the supreme ruler over the ten kingdomed empire which is global.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

In Revelation 17:11 the beast is the 8th king. During his rule, as the beast-king, the ten horns have their crowns in Revelation 13, and will rule with him (albeit under the beast-king's command).

Yes but that beast king is the false prophet, not someone else. There is no one else.


In Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Yes, an empire and a person. Both are cast into fire and destroyed. Again, no biblical writer ever spoke of the AC and a second in command, never. There is only one man at the top and it's the FP.
 

ewq1938

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It is not just different names - but different functional roles - just as, for example, Joe Biden became Senator and then later on became President, no longer Senator.

To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought to be messiah by the Jews.


That is not required and no scripture says that even happens.


After about three years, that role ends as the person reveals himself to be the man of sin in 2Thessalonains2:4.

You are plenty smart enough to understand this.

Yes. which is why I oppose it.
 
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Timtofly

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The woman riding the beast is not destroyed at the second coming - but before then, by the ten kings, in Revelation 17:17.

You have some of the entities mixed up.

The woman is the Vatican. To be burnt to the ground by the ten EU leaders.

Mystery Babylon, mother of harlots and abomination of the earth, is the spiritual kingdom of Satan and his angels.
You are hijacking the thread, but I could not resist.

Bringing it back on topic:

"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

The woman and wilderness is an ongoing theme in Revelation, no?

This city was not historically the city that reigned over all the earthly kings. This was describing Jerusalem at the point of the 7th Trumpet. The Vatican did not reign over Babylon, the Medes and Persians, Greece, nor Rome. The Vatican is a young nation compared to Jerusalem and Israel. The Vatican may have been the little horn that replaced 3 horns, but is certainly not the woman riding this 7 headed beast in Revelation 17.

The dragon, the sea beast, and the scarlet colored beast are the same 6 historical kingdoms as the foundation image of Daniel 2, with 5 kingdoms or 5 of the 7 heads. Jerusalem was historically related to all of these kingdoms. Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon. Jerusalem was rebuilt by the Medes and Persians. A Greek king set up the AoD in Jerusalem. The Romans were involved in the crucifixion of Jesus, and saw the end of Jerusalem for hundreds of years, the second time.

The 5th kingdom was not included in Daniel per se. That is why the OP will not address the legs and feet as seperate kingdoms, yet calls them (plural) pagan Rome, and papal Rome, which are historical constructs. Rome was never named at all, in Daniel. We only get Rome from the history books.

Revelation does not cover Daniel at all, except to say: "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come."

These 5 fallen are the first 5 heads. None of these 5 will ever return. Babylon will not return. The Medes and Persians will not return. Greece will not return. And certainly the Romans will not return. Yet all of these kingdoms have descendants that are still viable today. We literally have no Scripture describing the 6th head or kingdom. Except it has a mortal wound and Satan will heal that wound, after the Second Coming. Satan is the 7th head of this 7 headed beast. Satan has been working to influence all these kingdoms starting with Nebuchadnezzar.

Daniel left us with the point:

"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

We still have people living today descended from all those nations listed in Daniel 2. We still have people calling themselves Assyrians from the kingdom before Babylon. We still have Egyptians and Egypt who was always a minor kingdom even before Abraham. Abraham came out of the Mesopotamian kingdom.

If God allows it, Satan will be an 8th world wide kingdom, at least over the few tens of thousands of people left on the earth. This 8th kingdom is Mystery Babylon. It is based in Jerusalem on the throne Jesus established at the Second Coming. The 7th Kingdom of Jesus will be put on hold just after the 7th Trumpet declared all nations were now under Jesus' control, 3.5 days later to be precise. The week mentined in Daniel 9:27 is a literal week of days. The midst of the week is 3.5 days. The week of the 7th Trumpet is the end of Gabriel's 70 weeks when the mystery of Daniel is declared over.

But the 70 weeks will not end 7 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound, if Satan is given 42 months. The end of the week will be those 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are laying dead in Jerusalem. The same 3.5 days the 7 vials are poured out onto Satan's empire. When Armageddon is over will be the end of the 7th Trumpet, and those 70 weeks of Daniel 9. The Day of the Lord, the Millennial Kingdom will be when those promises in Daniel 9:24 are fully established and experienced. The 70 weeks will be no more and declared over as in time up.

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished."

Notice John says "should be finished". It won't be finished if time is extended for Satan's 42 months. Time is extended when the Atonement Covenant is confirmed and God states some will be beheaded in the next 42 months, thus still need redemption under the Atonement Covenant. Redemption for those beheaded will not happen, until they are physically beheaded. The 70 weeks cannot end, until all named in the Lamb's book of life are accounted for who are still physically alive on the earth at that point. Only God will know who may or may not be beheaded. While John saw these events unfold, whether they happen or not has yet to be determined by God. John saw the worse case scenario, not the best case scenario.

God told Nebuchadnezzar in the dream Daniel interpreted, when the church would become a great mountain filling the earth. That would be at the Reformation. But no one explained to Daniel the fulness of the Gentiles, nor the Revelation that was given to John after the first coming of Jesus. Daniel saw all the way to the GWT Judgment event, but not the details of Revelation 20, and the Day of the Lord. Daniel was told 3500 years as the time, times, and half a time, but people today still think that means 42 months, 1260 days, or 3.5 years. It is actually 3500 years, from Daniel until the end of creation, when Jesus hands back creation to God.
 

Davy

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Below are the relevant verses in Daniel (stopped at Chapter 7) that discuss how many kingdoms are found, and my interpretations on those verses. Please consider.

....

Above is a waste of time, because it wrongly points to the Jews as the symbolic "clay".

Per Daniel 2:34-35 reveals that ALL FIVE PIECES of the beast statue are TOGETHER when Christ (that "stone") comes to smite the beast upon its feet of part iron mixed with part clay, and then God's Kingdom is then established.

That means there are actually FIVE BEAST KINGDOMS:

1. head of gold = Babylon empire
2. breast and arms of silver = Medo-Persian empire
3. belly and thighs of brass = Macedonian empire
4. legs of iron = Roman empire
5. feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay = "one world government" for the end of this world; the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom. Forming up today in prep for the 'end'.

The fact that ALL FIVE PIECES of that beast statue are mentioned separately, AND they are TOGETHER as One when Jesus comes to smite it upon its feet, means the FINAL BEAST will be a ONE-WORLD KINGDOM to include ALL the past pagan empires.


Remember Brethren:
Some Christian denominations stay on the old Reformer's doctrine about the Catholic pope being the final Antichrist of The Bible. In the 16th century, when the Protestant rebellion happened, the Reformers believe the pope was Antichrist, and they thought Jesus' coming was any moment. It didn't happen, and the pope was not the Antichrist.

But some of that era continued in that false doctrine about a pope, even to this day, and they continually try and prove that the Roman Church today is the beast of Revelation and that the pope is the coming Antichrist. Thus their desire in Daniel 2 is to keep the 'iron' symbol pushing the idea of a revived Roman empire, with pointing to the Roman Church and a pope.

Where do I Stand On This?
I am a Protestant Christian raised in a mainstream Protestant Church. My French ancestors were Huguenots of the 16th century, and were persecuted by the Catholic Church back then, which is why they migrated to the Americas.

I do not follow the Catholic Church. But I do follow God's Word as written, and Jesus warned of a Jewish false-Messiah coming to Jerusalem for the end as the Antichrist, not a Catholic pope. So I will listen to Lord Jesus, not to deceived of the old Reformer's doctrine that didn't come true in the 16th century.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings Davy,
I do not follow the Catholic Church. But I do follow God's Word as written, and Jesus warned of a Jewish false-Messiah coming to Jerusalem for the end as the Antichrist, not a Catholic pope. So I will listen to Lord Jesus, not to deceived of the old Reformer's doctrine that didn't come true in the 16th century.
Where does it say that the Antichrist is Jewish. The little horn of Daniel 7 is attached to the fourth Kingdom, the Roman, and it persecuted the faithful including the Huguenots (massacre of Saint Bartholomew's Day) for 1260 years, from AD 569-573 Justinian to 1879-1883 the French Revolution, and AD 610 Pepin-1870 when it lost its three Papal States mentioned in Daniel 7. The Jewish Antichrist concept was invented by a Jesuit to deflect attention away from the RCC and this concept as well as Futurism is very popular among Evangelicals today. Many and possibly including many Evangelicals will oppose Jesus when he comes to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth centred in Jerusalem for the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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ewq1938

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Greetings Davy,

Where does it say that the Antichrist is Jewish. The little horn of Daniel 7 is attached to the fourth Kingdom, the Roman, and it persecuted the faithful including the Huguenots (massacre of Saint Bartholomew's Day) for 1260 years, from AD 569-573 Justinian to 1879-1883 the French Revolution, and AD 610 Pepin-1870 when it lost its three Papal States mentioned in Daniel 7. The Jewish Antichrist concept was invented by a Jesuit to deflect attention away from the RCC and this concept as well as Futurism is very popular among Evangelicals today. Many and possibly including many Evangelicals will oppose Jesus when he comes to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth centred in Jerusalem for the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor


Daniel's 4th kingdom wasn't Roman because that 4th kingdom is destroyed by a coming of God. Rome fell long ago so that 4th kingdom could not have been Rome else it would have been a false prophecy.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings ewq1938,
Daniel's 4th kingdom wasn't Roman because that 4th kingdom is destroyed by a coming of God. Rome fell long ago so that 4th kingdom could not have been Rome else it would have been a false prophecy.
Daniel 7 depicts the decline and fall of the Roman Empire by the 10 horns. Nevertheless these ten horns are still attached to the fourth beast and are thus still Roman.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Douggg

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Greetings ewq1938,

Daniel 7 depicts the decline and fall of the Roman Empire by the 10 horns. Nevertheless these ten horns are still attached to the fourth beast and are thus still Roman.

Kind regards
Trevor
Trevor, yes, to the Roman Empire concept. And also to the phony King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah concept, requiring the person to be a Jew.

The person will go through 5 stages on the path to his demise. The Roman Empire has manifested itself as the EU in the end times.

The little horn will be leader over a panel of ten EU leaders.

Then right after Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39, he will become the prince that shall come (into the middle east) of Daniel 9:26, on the premise of being peace keeper in the region, in the aftermath of Gog/Magog.

The Jews will think that the person is their long-awaited King of Israel messiah. So the person has to be a Jew.

The false prophet will anoint the person as the King of Israel - instead of and against the rightful King of Israel-Jesus. Thus making the person the Antichrist.

As the phony King of Israel, he will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, by making a big speech on the temple mount, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever, to begin the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. According to the process in the law set by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for all future leaders of Israel. (has not been done in modern times, because of the Muslim presence on the temple mount).

The 7 years are also in Ezekiel 39:9 following the Gog/Magog event, which will end the Muslim presence on the temple mount.

About three years into the 7 years, the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation, Daniel 8:12-13, the act of 2Thessalonians2:4, a sit-in the temple, claiming to have achieved God-hood. Revealing himself as the man of sin - and not the messiah as the Jews will have first thought. Ending his time as the Antichrist, phony King of Israel messiah - as the Jews will reject him from continuing as their king.

God then has the revealed man of sin killed for his audacious act, in Ezekiel 28:1-10. Then after his soul is in hell for a short period, less than a week, in disdain for the person God returns his soul back to his lifeless body, Isaiah 14:18-20. At that time the spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast will ascend from the bottomless pit to possess the person. Thus the person becomes "the beast".

The ten EU leaders will then in Revelation 17:17 will hand their EU kingdom over to him to be dictator of it, thus he becomes the beast-king. The EU kingdom in its final stage will thus become the beast kingdom of Revelation 13, the Roman Empire manifested in the end times.

To summarize...
little horn person - 7th king of Revelation 17:10 - leader over ten EU leaders
prince that shall come - into the middle east - on the premise of being peace keeper
Antichrist - anointed the King of Israel thought-to-be Jewish messiah
revealed man of sin - claims to have achieved God-hood
beast-king - the 8th king of Revelation 17:11 - dictator of the EU, manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times.




small 5 stages downsized .jpg
 
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ewq1938

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Greetings ewq1938,

Daniel 7 depicts the decline and fall of the Roman Empire by the 10 horns. Nevertheless these ten horns are still attached to the fourth beast and are thus still Roman.

Kind regards
Trevor

Not possible for the reasons I listed in my post. Please address what I presented.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again ewq1938,
Not possible for the reasons I listed in my post. Please address what I presented.
I have read ALL your posts. In this thread there are many new and unusual views presented, and this includes some strange ideas from others as well as yours. I consider it more beneficial to state in simple terms what I consider to be the clear teaching of the Bible, rather than attempting to unravel strange ideas and thinking based on shallow and faulty reasoning.

Kind regards
Trevor