how many lives is enough??

[Copperhead]

You seem to be fixated on mentioning individuals who have done bad things as opposed to collective will of the nation. No doubt there are those who have vested interest in making money off of stuff like that, but as a nation, that isn't the American's prime motivation for involvement in many conflicts. I really didn't give a rip one way or the other about Don Rumsfeld or anyone similar for that matter. Or the fact that Eugene Stoner made considerable profits, having developed the M-16 rifle platform (of which I am not a big fan of surprisingly enough). I am fully aware of President Eisenhower's comments regarding the military industrial complex.

Your logic is like that of those who despise Christianity. There are some who just make profit out of the scripture, so that makes all Christians and Christianity invalid by default. Since there have been unscrupulous TV preachers and those that have taken advantage or abused others, then that invalidates any claims by Christianity to be true or worth consideration. Likewise, just because some made fortunes from being involved in production of war materials or the sale of them, that the reasons for the war itself invalid also. And since Judas was profiting from following around the Messiah (as Judas held on to the collective purse and took the 30 pieces of silver later), that anything related to the Messiah and His purpose is now invalid. I would expect such logic out of a unbeliever, since they have only their moral compass as a standard. But someone who claims to know the Messiah using similar dysfunctional logic? Sad indeed.

 

[Sword]

You are ready to go to Korea illegally/ you went to libya illegally afgan 16 years lol. iraq 1 and 2 illegally. Dont see ya running to the opprresive Putin. You went to somalia illegally.Cuba and I dont ebven study this stuff. Slavery The natives indian. Selma alabama. and detriot is it?
As for hitler you took the Nazis in. And for gave them. So that was nice. All of it greed. Obvioulsy not the sheeple. The leaders.

 

[Copperhead]

Korea illegally? We went to Korea the first time as a United Nations response of an invasion of the sovereign nation by another. Most of the other events you mention, also in concert with other nations. We have remained in Korea over the years to support the liberated nation and secure them. They have been a free nation ever since and now a major economic concern in Asia and their people enjoy a high standard of living. We will resume in force if the PRK decides to inflict war on it's southern neighbor again. That would not be illegal. We have agreements and treaties in place that allow that.

Slavery was not a war. We did have a bad history with the Native Americans. But also we, as a people and government, spent money to establish schools and such for many of them. The very first budget act by Congress after formation of the new nation in 1787, was money spent to purchase bibles for use by Native Americans in schools that were established for them.

Selma, AL was about civil rights, not a war. Same for Detroit, Watts, and any other similar event.

Again, you are just being contentious without any firm grasp on the actual history of many issues.

 

[Job]

and I dont ebven study this stuff.

It shows.

m

 

[Stranger]

Yes, Siddiqi is a Muslim. His comments were from a rebuttal to a non Muslim that was asserting that Muslims think all non Muslims should be subjugated and either accept Islam or be killed. It was countering a claim that Muslims are not to be friendly to others that live around them, in or out of their control.

Every Muslim will adhere to Sharia Law, if the ultra conservative Muslim school of thought has its way. But it is not the teaching of all Islam. Different schools of thought view this differently. Even what constitutes adherence to Sharia law. Your assertion again evidences a idea that there is only one branch of Islam and one school of thought, and all of them hold the same understanding of what constitutes Sharia Law.

Not in any way am I Muslim. I am solidly Christian. I do know quite a bit about Islam and many of the teachings and diversity. Again, it pays to know one's adversary. Something I learned from my formal military training. And it is very helpful to have a good concept of the diversity in order to witness to them. After all, Paul was very familiar with Greek philosophy and religious beliefs and used that knowledge to leverage a foot hold in arguing his beliefs to those in Athens on Mars Hill. Just beating folks over the head with a large print Bible doesn't do the trick sometimes. You have to find some common ground and work from there.

Siddiqi can quote verses of peace all he wants. And one can counter them with verses of war and death to the infidel found throughout the koran. " Out of 6,200 verses in the koran, 109 are war verses to incite the muslim toward violence and death against the non-muslims. One out of every 55. (Report by Dick Staub with Don Richardson in Christianity Today, Feb. 2003, No Peace Child For Islam.)

From the koran:

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, the surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Surrah 5:51)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah,nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, not follow the the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." (Surrah 9:29)

"Fighting is enjoined on you and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know." (Surrah 2:216)

Shariah Law is Islamic Law. "Islamic Law is complete and perfect, and covers all aspects of human life. Men of learning explain and clarify Shariah for the benefit of ordinary people." (Islam Beliefs and Teachings, Ghulam Sarwar, Muslim Educational Trust, p.153)

"Shariah is the code of law for the Islamic way of life. The word Shariah means a clear straight path or example. It is the best system of law from Allah for humanity to follow." (Sarwar, p. 153)

"The Quran is the main basis of Shariah. It states the principles while the Sunnah of the Prophet provides the blueprint of how to apply them. Shariah has rules for every aspect of life. " (Sarwar, p.153)

"Muhammad's duty, according to the Quran, was to make Islam supreme over all other systems of life. (61:9, 48:28, 9:33)...As Muslims, we must also work towards the establishment of the supremacy of Allah's Law and the removal of evil from the society in which we live. This is Jihad..." (Sarwar, p.79-80)

So, forget your 'common ground'. There is none between the Christians and muslims.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

none for you, maybe, but that is by your choice

 

[bbyrd009]

You are ready to go to Korea illegally/ you went to libya illegally afgan 16 years lol. iraq 1 and 2 illegally. Dont see ya running to the opprresive Putin. You went to somalia illegally.Cuba and I dont ebven study this stuff. Slavery The natives indian. Selma alabama. and detriot is it?
As for hitler you took the Nazis in. And for gave them. So that was nice. All of it greed. Obvioulsy not the sheeple. The leaders.

i am suddenly again minded of the futility of having a conversation on the morals of slave ownership with a plantation owner lol. good luck here

 

[Stranger]

No, I didn't go thru a detailed analysis of each and every conflict, and each action of every individual in each of those conflicts. Now you are being stuck on stupid and just wanting to argue. The southern soldiers were not all that stellar either. There was plenty of fault to go around on both sides. There were many clandestine raids done by southern soldiers that harassed civilians. And look at the Free State of Jones event and let me know if you think the South was all that pure. So don't play some idea here that the South was as pure as a new born baby in the conflict.

Sure, the south was beat and put upon in a bad way by the north. I generally have held a pro-south position in regards to the early secession. But that is about as far as it goes.

Notice my screen name... "Copperhead". That is a name given to Iowans who opposed going to war with south during that time and it is why I use that screen name. Probably didn't know that little morsel of history did ya?

I am quite familiar with the political term 'Copperhead'. They were yankees who were no friend to the South. They just opposed the war.

I am not playing on an idea that the South was pure. I am playing on the idea that great atrocities were done to the Southern people by the yankee government. These are especially bad because they are presented as being good. And, this war continues today. Note the pulling down of Confederate Statues and flags.

Stranger

 

[Sword]

Buts just have a look at your own vets. disgracefull the way they have been treated since day one.

 

[Sword]

Korea illegally? We went to Korea the first time as a United Nations response of an invasion of the sovereign nation by another. Most of the other events you mention, also in concert with other nations. We have remained in Korea over the years to support the liberated nation and secure them. They have been a free nation ever since and now a major economic concern in Asia and their people enjoy a high standard of living. We will resume in force if the PRK decides to inflict war on it's southern neighbor again. That would not be illegal. We have agreements and treaties in place that allow that.

Slavery was not a war. We did have a bad history with the Native Americans. But also we, as a people and government, spent money to establish schools and such for many of them. The very first budget act by Congress after formation of the new nation in 1787, was money spent to purchase bibles for use by Native Americans in schools that were established for them.

Selma, AL was about civil rights, not a war. Same for Detroit, Watts, and any other similar event.

Again, you are just being contentious without any firm grasp on the actual history of many issues.

Never said other never joined you the war in iraq was illegall just like the one your pushing for in NK

 

[Sword]

Korea illegally? We went to Korea the first time as a United Nations response of an invasion of the sovereign nation by another. Most of the other events you mention, also in concert with other nations. We have remained in Korea over the years to support the liberated nation and secure them. They have been a free nation ever since and now a major economic concern in Asia and their people enjoy a high standard of living. We will resume in force if the PRK decides to inflict war on it's southern neighbor again. That would not be illegal. We have agreements and treaties in place that allow that.

Slavery was not a war. We did have a bad history with the Native Americans. But also we, as a people and government, spent money to establish schools and such for many of them. The very first budget act by Congress after formation of the new nation in 1787, was money spent to purchase bibles for use by Native Americans in schools that were established for them.

Selma, AL was about civil rights, not a war. Same for Detroit, Watts, and any other similar event.

Again, you are just being contentious without any firm grasp on the actual history of many issues.

I am talking about all the blood that is on your hands for any kind of killing.

 

[Sword]

i am suddenly again minded of the futility of having a conversation on the morals of slave ownership with a plantation owner lol. good luck here

Just like good old ab he set them free in the south but he still had his own.

 

[aspen]

Just like good old ab he set them free in the south but he still had his own.

Lincoln did not own slaves.

 

[aspen]

Never said other never joined you the war in iraq was illegall just like the one your pushing for in NK

Yeah, guess it would of been nice if good old Blair took a moral stand against the war in Iraq rather than following Bush like a puppy.

 

[Sword]

This is where the usa sactioned scalping Indians.

5 Things You May Not Know About Lincoln, Slavery and Emancipation

 

[aspen]

Here is a nice panoply of British war crimes:

British war crimes - Wikipedia

 

[Job]

This is where the usa sactioned scalping Indians.

5 Things You May Not Know About Lincoln, Slavery and Emancipation

 

[bbyrd009]

"to make gods, first get the meanest monkeys in the jungle..." lol, ya, i don't much get it either

 

[Sword]

Here is a nice panoply of British war crimes:

British war crimes - Wikipedia

We were talking about how good america was. not how bad the UK was.
Cant get an empire without blood.

 

[Sword]

Yeah, guess it would of been nice if good old Blair took a moral stand against the war in Iraq rather than following Bush like a puppy.

There all puppets