How Men's Doctrines Fool The Deceived

[veteran]

One of the ways to recognize the doctrines of men is how they chop up God's Word into 'fragments', taking it apart to create catch phrases to fit their doctrines.

One such example is the "as a thief" phrase. You'll hear some here on the Pre-trib doctrines quoting that "as a thief" phrase quite often. It is taken from Scripture like this...

1Thes 5:2
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(KJV)


First off, what is Biblically meant by 'fragments'? In Mark 8, our Lord Jesus defined what the 'fragments' represent in relation to the feeding of the multitude by His miracles of the loaves and fishes.

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.

Apostle Paul used this analogy of unleavened bread for those in Christ Jesus, per 1 Corinthians 5:7. He said there for us to, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."

There's two types of bread being compared. Leavened bread has yeast in it to make it rise when baked. Unleavened bread has no yeast, so it does not rise. Christ's disciples didn't yet understand what our Lord meant to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees, for they were thinking with their fleshy minds.

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"
12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(KJV)

Then Jesus reminded them of the miracles He did with feeding the multitudes with only a small number of loaves and fish. When Jesus sent out five loaves among five thousand, they gathered back up 'twelve' baskets of fragments (Mark 8:19). With His feeding of the four thousand with seven loaves, they took up 'seven' baskets of fragments that were left over (Mark 8:20).

Whole loaves of bread went out to the people, but baskets of fragments came back. What happened to those loaves when coming back with His disciples gathering those baskets of fragments? If twenty people formed a circle, and one whispered something to the person next to them and told to pass it on, what's the chance what that first person said comes back the same?

That's how the leaven doctrines of men operate, using 'fragments' of bread with their 'leaven' added to it. Leaven yeast is what causes bread to have thousands of tiny holes in it when rising while baked.

That's exactly what is often done with the "thief in the night" phrase.

Some will take that "thief in the night" phrase out of Scripture and apply much leaven doctrines of men to it. Looking at all the various ways the pre-trib school uses it for the time of their supposed 'rapture' to Christ is a perfect example. Their leaven doctrine teaches that it means a rapture of the saints to Christ just PRIOR to the beginning of the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21. How can we know they have taken that "as a thief in the night" phrase to treat it like a 'fragment' with leaven added to it?

It's simple, because, Apostle Paul gave that "as a thief in the night" idea ALONG WITH ANOTHER EVENT OF NOTE...

1Thes 5:2
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(KJV)

Paul is drawing our attention to when the events of "the day of the Lord" will happen, "as a thief in the night." Our Lord Jesus Himself declared that His coming will be "as a thief in the night", per Rev.3:3 and Rev.16:15. Apostle Peter showed us Christ's coming "as a thief" is about "the day of the Lord" events taking place at that moment also...

2 Pet 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(KJV)

That's the exact same time Apostle Paul was talking about in 1 Thessalonians 5, and 1 Thessalonians 4 with the time of the "caught up" event (Greek harpazo). His coverage in 1 Thess.5 was given to mark the time of what he was covering back in 1 Thess.4:17, one of the major verses the Pre-trib leaven doctrine uses to try and show a rapture to Christ prior to the tribulation.

Another idea the Pre-trib leaven doctrine teaches is that 1 Thess.4:17 means a rapture to the heavenly prior to the tribulation. But if you'll notice what Apostle Peter declared will happen on that day, "the heavens shall pass away", and "wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved".

God's Word tells us much about the events that are to happen on "the day of the Lord". It is a time marker for His judgments upon this earth, ending this present world and all of man's works off this earth. Both Paul and Peter linked the time of Christ's coming to gather His saints with that "day of the Lord" event. Paul marked it again in 2 Thessalonians 2...

II Th 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

Paul's subject is the time of our gathering to Christ at His coming, the only time He gathers His saints. That "day of Christ" is the same "the day of the Lord" event, because in the Greek the name 'Christ' is not there, but the Greek word 'kurios' is instead, which means 'lord'.

So simply by chopping up the 1 Thess.5:2 verse by Paul, the Pre-trib school has created a 'fragment' from God's Word, and added leaven to it, a working our Lord Jesus and His Apostle Paul specifically warned us about.

 

[veteran]

As much as the pre-trib rapture folks like to use that "as a thief in the night" phrase for a rapture prior to the tribulation, I'm surprise no one has tried to counter it yet.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

One of the ways to recognize the doctrines of men is how they chop up God's Word into 'fragments', taking it apart to create catch phrases to fit their doctrines.

One such example is the "as a thief" phrase. You'll hear some here on the Pre-trib doctrines quoting that "as a thief" phrase quite often. It is taken from Scripture like this...

1Thes 5:2
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(KJV)


First off, what is Biblically meant by 'fragments'? In Mark 8, our Lord Jesus defined what the 'fragments' represent in relation to the feeding of the multitude by His miracles of the loaves and fishes.

I find your thinking simply amazing Veteran. You claim folks fragment scripture and then you dive in head first and do it yourself to the extreme. Simply amazing.

Thess 4 & 5 are discussing circumstances regarding the day of the Lord but you immediately derail off into discussions about bread fragments , leaven , and your worn out doctrine of men weak arguments.

I do not have any ill feeling toward you sir , I just find it bizarre how you are most guilty of that which you accuse others of doing.

I find 1Thess 4:13 to 5:11 utterly simple and straightforward scripture regarding The Day of The Lord. We do not know the timing of course .... that is the whole point isn't it ??

If we do not know when it WILL happen , how can you claim to know when it WILL NOT happen ??

Your hatred of anything pre-trib rapture tends to consume you and clouds your focus . At least it appears that way. sorry.

The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night , neither Arnie nor Veteran can pinpoint when that will be. That is the whole point. The remedy (for the Christian) is to be alert and self controlled. That tells me we (Christians) must be here at the beginning of the Day (and able to recognize it) , but a bit later it says we are not to suffer wrath which indicates we are either removed or kept safe by other means.

Best wishes as you study. thanks.

 

[veteran]

I find your thinking simply amazing Veteran. You claim folks fragment scripture and then you dive in head first and do it yourself to the extreme. Simply amazing.

Thess 4 & 5 are discussing circumstances regarding the day of the Lord but you immediately derail off into discussions about bread fragments , leaven , and your worn out doctrine of men weak arguments.

I do not have any ill feeling toward you sir , I just find it bizarre how you are most guilty of that which you accuse others of doing.

Possibly you think I'm showing bias by what I've written in those posts. I can grasp how someone on the pre-trib rapture doctrine might think that. But I'm not biased because I'm staying strictly within the context of those Scriptures.

Our Lord Jesus gave a Message about the baskets of bread gathered up after His miracle of the loaves and fishes. They were "fragments" per Matt.14; Mark 6; Mark 8, etc. Those "fragments" gathered up in baskets is exactly what our Lord Jesus was warning His disciples about when He also linked the idea of men's 'leaven' doctrine with it. So this is basic Bible teaching, not a doctrine of men.

I find 1Thess 4:13 to 5:11 utterly simple and straightforward scripture regarding The Day of The Lord. We do not know the timing of course .... that is the whole point isn't it ??

If we do not know when it WILL happen , how can you claim to know when it WILL NOT happen ??

Your hatred of anything pre-trib rapture tends to consume you and clouds your focus . At least it appears that way. sorry.

My focus is in God's Word. But on this matter, your focus is not. How can I say that? Simple. I underlined your words in the above where you reveal your heeding of yet another leaven doctrine of men, that of misapplying what our Lord Jesus said that no man knows the day or the hour of His coming.

You've applied that in a super broad sense to cover up the timing Scripture gives when "the day of the Lord" is to occur. God's Word in many Scriptures shows us "the day of the Lord" will occur to end the great tribulation upon His saints on earth. There's no mistaking that timing. Knowing that still is not about knowing the specific day or hour of Christ's coming, but the season. We are given "the times and the seasons" of Christ's coming per Paul in 1 Thess.5:1. Paul is speaking of EVENT ORDER with that idea of "the times and the seasons".

We CAN know the order of events leading up to Christ's return, for He gave us that in His Word. They are the specific signs (7 of them) He gave in His Olivet Discourse which are the seven Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of His Book of Revelation. For a Bible student not being aware of that has to mean they have not truly studied His Word, and they are listening to someone or something else, like the fragments from men's doctrines which try to replace God's simple Word.

Trying to use Christ's no man knows the day or hour Message to wipe out His teaching of the signs and event order leading up to His return is a leaven fragment of men's doctrines. You simply have yet to realize that's what the false prophets you listen to have gotten you to do with that Message.

And instead of just referring to two verses like 1 Thess.4:13 and 1 Thess.5:11, you might try reading the whole chapters instead, and get the flow of Paul's Message, instead of just pieces of it that men have taught you to turn into fragments. You truly are being a prime example of the leaven fragments idea.

I don't hate anyone that believes the pre-trib rapture doctrine. But you're right, I do hate that doctrine, because God hates it also, as He showed in Ezekiel 13 about those who teach His people to fly to save their souls.

The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night , neither Arnie nor Veteran can pinpoint when that will be. That is the whole point. The remedy (for the Christian) is to be alert and self controlled. That tells me we (Christians) must be here at the beginning of the Day (and able to recognize it) , but a bit later it says we are not to suffer wrath which indicates we are either removed or kept safe by other means.

Best wishes as you study. thanks.

There, you've done the 'fragments' thing again, when you say, "we are not to suffer wrath...". True, God's wrath is not upon His saints, but that doesn't mean we have to physically leave for that wrath to miss us. By you're own words you are actually helping others here to see just how the leaven working of bread fragments from men operates against having the whole loaf of Bread of understanding in God's Word.

The time of God's wrath upon the wicked is to occur on "the day of the Lord". It is accompanied with a 'destruction' upon the wicked by The Almighty God...

Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
(KJV)

That is the "sudden destruction" Paul spoke of in 1 Thess.5:3 that is upon the wicked. That is God's wrath upon 'them', those who sleep in the night and who travail with child; it's not upon us who remain in Christ standing to that day. When that "day of the Lord" event happens, the works of man for this present world will be over, wiped off this earth. That of course means the tribulation must occur prior to that day of the Lord.

I hope and pray that you will come to understand God's Word about the order of events leading up to our Lord Jesus' return which He gave us in His Word to know. I guarantee you, you won't get that understanding from listening to those you've been heeding. You will only receive it IF you listen to God in His simple Word, and ask Him for it.

 

[veteran]

Another important matter:

If we quote a section of Scripture and make sure we apply it WITHIN the Scripture context then that is not a leaven fragment work of men. If I say Christ will come "as a thief in the night", and do not change the event order of how that's given (like how Paul gave it with "the day of the Lord" event in 1 Thess.5), then that is not an example of the fragment leaven of men.

What causes the difference then?

An example of a leaven fragment of men is of taking a phrase like that "as a thief in the night" and applying it totally different than how it is given in Scripture context. Some use that "thief in the night" phrase along with our Lord's Message that no man knows the day or hour of His coming, purposefully leaving out the Scripture context where both of those ideas are given. And THAT is an example of the leaven fragments of men's doctrines. Whole traditions have been created that way to get the deceived of God's people off track and derailed. That is exactly how Satan himself tempted our Lord Jesus in Luke 4...

Luke 4:9-12
9 And he brought Him to Jerusalem, and set Him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto Him, "If Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down from hence:
10 For it is written, 'He shall give His angels charge over Thee, to keep Thee:
11 And in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone.' "
12 And Jesus answering said unto him, "It is said, 'Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' "
(KJV)

Here's where the devil was quoting from to or Lord Jesus in tempting Him...

Ps 91:11-12
11 For He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
(KJV)

In Luke 4:11 above, Satan added the phrase, "at any time" to the Psalms 91 Scripture when he quoted it. What is most important is what he added changes the whole 'context' of the Ps.91 meaning. At any time would mean Christ could merely tempt The Father by simply casting Himself down just to see if The Father would protect Him from harm. That's why our Lord Jesus responded with, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God", quoting from Deut.6.

The New King James Version deleted that original KJV "at any time" phrase altogether, which is another example of the works of men's doctrine. It is in the Greek manuscripts and belongs as an example of how Satan tempts us using Scripture.

 

[veteran]

And yet another matter about all this:

It is possible to paraphrase an idea in Scripture and stay within The Scripture's context. That's what Bible versions like The Living Bible is about. It is basically a paraphrased Bible version, and very good in many cases.

What does it mean to paraphrase? It simply means to speak in your own manner of speaking. Some folks have a greater grasp of their language and might use some longer words than others in their normal speech. But as long as the Scripture context of an idea is not changed, then it does not add nor take away from The Scripture.

This is why we can see some slight differences with Old Testament Messages within The New Testament Books. It's mainly because of differences between Hebrew and Greek, but in some cases it's about the use of the writer's own manner of speaking.

We should endeavor to quote Scripture as written, but which Bible version do we memorize in order to quote accurately? See the problem?

If we paraphrase and stay within the bounds of Scripture, then others that have studied God's Word for theirselves will understand what part of Scripture we're referring to.

Understand The Scripture and its context first, and then you will still be able to get the Message out to others when you don't have a Bible handy.

 

[rockytopva]

[sup]26[/sup]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [sup]27[/sup]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

[sup]28[/sup]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

[sup]29[/sup]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

[sup]30[/sup]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17: 26,27,28,29,30




It is of my estimation that those who believe in the rapture, and daily live their lives in expectation of that event as to happen at any time and at any moment... are much more presentable before the celestial beings than those who are not.

 

[veteran]

[sup]26[/sup]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [sup]27[/sup]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

[sup]28[/sup]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

[sup]29[/sup]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

[sup]30[/sup]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17: 26,27,28,29,30


It is of my estimation that those who believe in the rapture, and daily live their lives in expectation of that event as to happen at any time and at any moment... are much more presentable before the celestial beings than those who are not.

Your estimation of the rapture timing is based upon doctrines of men though, and not within God's Word. I've tried to show you, as many others here have tried too. The only ones that will be prepared for Christ's return are those who follow His command for us to stay watching the signs leading up to His return.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine stresses that we don't have need to watch, but to just be ready. But you cannot be ready without watching for the signs our Lord gave. It's that simple. When the false messiah comes first, which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us of, hopefully The Holy Spirit will guide you away from that false one, and teach you to 'wait' for our Lord Jesus' return after that false one's working. Hopefully, you'll remember this when the time comes.

 

[rockytopva]

In which... I must go along with Isaac Newton... Who said...

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

 

[tomwebster]

In which... I must go along with Isaac Newton... Who said...

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

Rock, you go ahead and follow Isaac, I will follow Christ!

You might want to read the study on Matthew 24 in the Bible Study Forum:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14052-mat-2436-but-of-that-day-and-hour-knoweth-no-man-no-not-the-angels-of-heaven-but-my-father-only/

After you read that study look at verse 13, (I am including vs 7 - 28 because they are part of the same structure)

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure (G5278) unto(G1519) the end,(G5056), the same shall be saved (G4982) .

G5278
ὑπομένω
hupomenō
From G5259 and G3306; to stay under (behind), that is, remain; figuratively to undergo, that is, bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere: - abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind

G1519
εἰς
eis
A primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered),

G5056
τέλος
telos
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination)

G4982
σώζω
sōzō
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

 

[australia]

It is of my estimation that those who believe in the rapture, and daily live their lives in expectation of that event as to happen at any time and at any moment... are much more presentable before the celestial beings than those who are not.

I thought it amusing how rockytopva used the same phrase here that Satan did on Luke 4:11 in his modification of Psalms 91:12.

Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

 

[Duckybill]

The pre-trib rapture doctrine stresses that we don't have need to watch, but to just be ready.

Huh?

 

[veteran]

In which... I must go along with Isaac Newton... Who said...

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

Sir Isaac Newton is dead. He is not here today to be able get an update on the signs our Lord put in His Word for the end of days. But if you want to follow a man instead of God in His Word, well... that's up to you.

This is also why some portions of prophetic interpretation of endtime signs by several old Bible scholars no longer apply today, for they didn't get to live in our times today to see all the new evidences of the signs given. One such sign is in Rev.11 about God's two witnesses. It's written that all nations will see their dead bodies laying the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days. Only in the past couple of generations could that sign be properly understood, because of the advent of satellite technology.

 

[veteran]

Huh?

If you don't have to heed the signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave in all of His Word, then how would you be watching?

One of the slogan fests of the Pre-trib doctrines is to throw out the idea to 'be ready' for 'no man knows the day or the hour'. That is a suggestion to not do what? It's a suggestion that you don't have to know the signs of the end per God's Word, but just be ready. I've seen that very type of ideology declared on this forum by pre-trib believers, several times. Can you say "Any Moment" doctrine?

 

[Duckybill]

If you don't have to heed the signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave in all of His Word, then how would you be watching?

One of the slogan fests of the Pre-trib doctrines is to throw out the idea to 'be ready' for 'no man knows the day or the hour'. That is a suggestion to not do what? It's a suggestion that you don't have to know the signs of the end per God's Word, but just be ready. I've seen that very type of ideology declared on this forum by pre-trib believers, several times. Can you say "Any Moment" doctrine?

If you're not ready it won't matter if you are watching.

 

[rockytopva]

I would like to do a audio reply...


There was a African American Baptist preacher by the name of Joseph Brown who use to preach the rapture doctrine quite extensively. My audio reply is at the bottom of this web page...

http://tenwatts.blogspot.com/2008/10/grace-memorial-hour.html

 

[rockytopva]

I would like to do a audio reply...


There was a African American Baptist preacher by the name of Joseph Brown who use to preach the rapture doctrine quite extensively. My audio reply is at the bottom of this web page...

http://tenwatts.blog...orial-hour.html

The Dr. Joseph Brown was also a biblical scholar who was on the NKJV review committee...

http://www.dtl.org/versions/misc/translators.htm

Rev. Joseph Brown ~ Director, Speaker
Grace Memorial Hour

You guys are in luck! I will upload one of his sermons just for you!

 

[veteran]

If you're not ready it won't matter if you are watching.

Watching is a 'requirement' for being ready. That's why our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us to remain sober and watching.

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
(KJV)

 

[Duckybill]

Watching is a 'requirement' for being ready. That's why our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us to remain sober and watching.

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
(KJV)

I'm ready and watching, but many are watching but not ready.