ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Another misrepresentation on your part. Ephesians 2:8-10 is what I believe.
How Powerful is the Blood of Jesus?
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It depends what is meant by "died for all our sins".
People have different ideas about what that means
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Excellent summary of the Christian life."Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"
Philippians 1:6
"Not that I have already obtained, or am already perfected, but I press on. . . . One thing I do, I press on toward the goal. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect-(attaining to the high calling of God, pressing on...?) be thus minded. Brethren, be ye imitators together of me."
Philippians 3:12-17.
"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings."
Hebrews 2:10
I think that all true Christians hate sin. But we long to be perfected in every way yet, not until the day of Jesus Christ will it be completed IMHO "...will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" . I know that I recognize sin that I never even imagined WAS sin...until He showed me different. I see it as a growth thing and, as we learn to hate sin as He does, we will be convicted even before we act on sinful thoughts...learn to banish them from the mind before they take hold. Yet, we DO lose battles at times, less and less I should hope. But the key to me is getting back up and in the race again and I say "Thank you Jesus for dying for my sins and forgiving me! Amen. Then, it is on to the race once again, hopefully the stronger for it!
I have already been forgiven of all of my sins as, I had not committed a single sin when He died for ALL sin...I simply thank Him and trust in His awesome grace to resist all manner of sin, whether in thought, deed, omission. And, of course, He does this very thing in my own life. It is an awesome thing to have our eyes opened to His wonderful grace. Yes, many use His grace as a license to sin. These, IMHO, are not saved people, at all. They still love the darkness and think God forgives them no matter how they sin against Him. Hard to believe their are folks out there who sit in a pew week after week and grow not an inch. It's like sitting in a garage long enough, you will become a car! Ha! These truly abuse His grace. His grace is so powerful, there are no human words to describe it! And He is faithful, even when we are not.
xx
Nancy
Well-Known Member
'I simply thank Him and trust in His awesome grace to resist all manner of sin'
Maybe I should have worded this better? What I wrote above has everything to do with His power in us...
Unless there is a process whereby we are made fully righteous and holy before we enter heaven.
In Hebrews 11 the writer describes the faith of many of those in the Old Testament, men and women, from Abel onwards. At the end he writes:
"And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect."(vs 39-40)
These people were all dead, but they had not been made perfect. They had not received what was promised (heaven).
Then he writes:
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us" (12:1). These faithful people of the Old Testament are now witnessing our struggles. This can only be from heaven. But you have to be perfect to be in heaven. So those that were not perfect must have been made perfect
And he confirms this later in the chapter.
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb 12:22-23)
These just men were not perfect when they died but they are now. This shows that there is a way, a process, whereby the spirits of just men can be made perfect after death.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
We will always have temptation to sin. The reason we can be tempted is because our old nature still loves the particular sins we can be tempted to do!
As long as we give any power to our old nature- which though declared dead still lives in us- we will succumb to sin. The new man which was given to us at the moment of salvation cannot and will not and does not desire sin!
The process of sanctification that God is performing in the lives of believers is us growing in the knowledge of His Word daily, so that we can be transformed daily from thinking along the old lines and learn to think along the new.
And no it isn't slap in the face of how truly powerful the blood truly is! It isan example of the power of the blood of Jesus! As a believer we do lose our desire to sin as the Word of God takes root first in our minds, then in our hearts and it begins the transformation.
I knwo what you believe and you have no understanding of this because you believe you became sinlessly perfect th emoment you were saved.
And you have made mutually exclusive two things that God does not make mutually exclusive!
Yes Jesus' blood cleanses us of all sins past, present and future! His blood purchase made us able to be born again with a new nature through the Holy Spirit! Th enew man will never sin!
YOur mistake is that you do not realize that jesus died as all of your sin! Not just the sin you committed up to the point of salvation! God does not see us with any sin- but sees us as His children being conformed to Jesus!
Gods anger and punishment for all our sin was poured on Jesus at the cross! So now our Father is free to deal with us as His Children Sometoime we are disobedient! But that doesn't mean God kicks us out of the family- it just means we are dosobedient and many times we receive the wages our sin earns-.
Sin breaks our fellowship with God, but you will never find in Scripture where sin can break our relatiosnhip with God! That is an impossibility
"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1
If Job had physically died in the moment of that writing of that verse, he was already a perfect man according to what he had and according to what he knew and believed. He would perhaps have been as the 'so called' good thief on the cross was when he had his short conversation with Jesus before the soldier broke his legs. Both men were already overcomers... that is, both of them had already overcome the things of which they were aware standing between them and God. They were ready to meet their Maker more closely!
Can a person continue to grow closer to and more like God once he has truly repented before God? The example of Job indicates, yes. to me.
If we have truly repented, we are working in the Daylight as did Jesus. But... at that first repentance do we even know all of our own dark places? By opening up those remaining dark places to God when he knocks on our door, can He not, will He not, then enter into to each such place as it is opened and expand the place of Light in us by killing the beast that had the rule perhaps unbeknownst to us in that place?
Did Jesus, the man of flesh have beasts that needed to overcome/killed? If the beasts are temptations, then the answer is, yes!
Temptation is not sin. However, when a man succumbs to a temptation then he has started down the pathway away from God. he has sinned. Jesus never did that. He killed all of his own beasts before any of them could cause him to sin.
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15
"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2
Before Jesus went to the cross, he killed all of his beasts. He overcome all of the temptations in his own little world as a carnal man subject to temptations.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Jesus had done if for his own man of carnal temptation, so that before he went to the cross he was no longer "in" that world of temptations.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11
So then having overcome, Jesus then went to the cross making a Way for us to follow Him. Can we through the power of the Holy Spirit in us overcome the temptations before our allotted time as a man has ended?
If Job had physically died in the moment of that writing of that verse, he was already a perfect man according to what he had and according to what he knew and believed. He would perhaps have been as the 'so called' good thief on the cross was when he had his short conversation with Jesus before the soldier broke his legs. Both men were already overcomers... that is, both of them had already overcome the things of which they were aware standing between them and God. They were ready to meet their Maker more closely!
Can a person continue to grow closer to and more like God once he has truly repented before God? The example of Job indicates, yes. to me.
If we have truly repented, we are working in the Daylight as did Jesus. But... at that first repentance do we even know all of our own dark places? By opening up those remaining dark places to God when he knocks on our door, can He not, will He not, then enter into to each such place as it is opened and expand the place of Light in us by killing the beast that had the rule perhaps unbeknownst to us in that place?
Did Jesus, the man of flesh have beasts that needed to overcome/killed? If the beasts are temptations, then the answer is, yes!
Temptation is not sin. However, when a man succumbs to a temptation then he has started down the pathway away from God. he has sinned. Jesus never did that. He killed all of his own beasts before any of them could cause him to sin.
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15
"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2
Before Jesus went to the cross, he killed all of his beasts. He overcome all of the temptations in his own little world as a carnal man subject to temptations.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Jesus had done if for his own man of carnal temptation, so that before he went to the cross he was no longer "in" that world of temptations.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11
So then having overcome, Jesus then went to the cross making a Way for us to follow Him. Can we through the power of the Holy Spirit in us overcome the temptations before our allotted time as a man has ended?
Actually you do not believe that verse, at least, not the right interpretation of that verse.
The gift of God is not to be able to sin unconditionally, but the power of the Holy Spirit to live according to the Spirit and not the flesh.
Yes, the major difference in what I believe and what people like Blood Bought and Christophany believes has to do with the meaning of grace. All false doctrines believe it is unmerited favor, and I believe it is being given divine power. I believe you do too, sis. Otherwise you couldn't resist sin like I do too.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
another lie I have always believed that passage and its a salvation passage about grace and faith which you have turned into and twisted its meaning about sinless perfection. you should be ashamed of yourself.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
the truth is we resist sin but don't lie to others and claim sinlessness.Yes, the major difference in what I believe and what people like Blood Bought and Christophany believes has to do with the meaning of grace. All false doctrines believe it is unmerited favor, and I believe it is being given divine power. I believe you do too, sis. Otherwise you couldn't resist sin like I do too.
if we(believers) say we(believers) have no sin we(believers) lie and are not of the truth.
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
hoe this helps !!!
Of course there is a process. It is called glorification - becoming more and more like Christ. It is not a process of becoming sinless, but a process of becoming mature in the fruit of the Spirit and is found in 2 Peter 1:5-11.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
1 John 1:8. The confession of sins is a necessary consequence of "walking in the light" (1Jo 1:7). "If thou shalt confess thyself a sinner, the truth is in thee; for the truth is itself light. Not yet has thy life become perfectly light, as sins are still in thee, but yet thou hast already begun to be illuminated, because there is in thee confession of sins" [Augustine].
that we have no sin—"Have," not "have had," must refer not to the past sinful life while unconverted, but to the present state wherein believers have sin even still. Observe, "sin" is in the singular; "(confess our) sins" (1Jo 1:9) in the plural. Sin refers to the corruption of the old man still present in us, and the stain created by the actual sins flowing from that old nature in us. To confess our need of cleansing from present sin is essential to "walking in the light"; so far is the presence of some sin incompatible with our in the main "walking in light." But the believer hates, confesses, and longs to be delivered from all sin, which is darkness. "They who defend their sins, will see in the great day whether their sins can defend them."
1 John 1:8. The confession of sins is a necessary consequence of "walking in the light" (1Jo 1:7). "If thou shalt confess thyself a sinner, the truth is in thee; for the truth is itself light. Not yet has thy life become perfectly light, as sins are still in thee, but yet thou hast already begun to be illuminated, because there is in thee confession of sins" [Augustine].
that we have no sin—"Have," not "have had," must refer not to the past sinful life while unconverted, but to the present state wherein believers have sin even still. Observe, "sin" is in the singular; "(confess our) sins" (1Jo 1:9) in the plural. Sin refers to the corruption of the old man still present in us, and the stain created by the actual sins flowing from that old nature in us. To confess our need of cleansing from present sin is essential to "walking in the light"; so far is the presence of some sin incompatible with our in the main "walking in light." But the believer hates, confesses, and longs to be delivered from all sin, which is darkness. "They who defend their sins, will see in the great day whether their sins can defend them."
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Well put Amadeus,
"The new man which was given to us at the moment of salvation cannot and will not and does not desire sin!"
For sure. We do hate sin even as we fall short. Every day I grow more in Him, learn more in Him. I absolutely HATE sin yet...we will fall short but the getting back up and thanking Him for His forgiveness and His grace to NOT sin, is key IMHO.
Yes, the old nature still lives in us hence, the flesh always waring with the Spirit. But thanks be to God, He has freed us from sin and death!!! He always gives us a way out but times will come when we do not recognize it or fall short and...sin.
"As a believer we do lose our desire to sin as the Word of God takes root first in our minds, then in our hearts and it begins the transformation."
This is exactly what has and continues to happen in my own life, Amen.
"Gods anger and punishment for all our sin was poured on Jesus at the cross! So now our Father is free to deal with us as His Children Sometoime we are disobedient! But that doesn't mean God kicks us out of the family- it just means we are dosobedient and many times we receive the wages our sin earns-."
Indeed...He will not disown us when we fall short (Prodigal Son?). Children are often disobedient but, God's children do not desire to sin Amen! He chastises us...why? Because we reap what we sow and He corrects us when we miss the mark, which we will do from time to time yet...we are still growing in Him, we are shedding all manner of sin as we grow. At least, that is true for me.
"Sin breaks our fellowship with God, but you will never find in Scripture where sin can break our relatiosnhip with God! That is an impossibility"
Amen and Praise Him from whom ALL blessings flow! He will NEVER leave or forsake us...His imperfect children
What I believe is that all desire to sin was immediately taken from me when I became baptized in His Spirit and born again. BUT, knowledge is important as you said. But it is our heart that matters. A true Christian WILL always live up to the knowledge we have, and keep growing in sinlessness as our knowledge grows. Philippians 3:16.
What did Augustine mean by his statement: Love God and live as you like?
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I know what he meant. You are the one who was quoting him. Just wonder if you know what he meant.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
we have been there and you are the one who claimed it meant power and I proved you wrong with every Greek lexicon. you don't even understand the basic meaning of grace.
Definition
- grace
- that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
- good will, loving-kindness, favour
- of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
- what is due to grace
- the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
- the token or proof of grace, benefit
- a gift of grace
- benefit, bounty
- thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
NAS Word Usage - Total: 156
blessing 1, concession 1, credit 3, favor 11, gift 1, grace 122, gracious 2, gracious work 3, gratitude 1, thank 3, thankfulness 2, thanks 6
Paul uses charis as an expressions such as “Grace and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ” and “Thanks(charis) be to God”, “ if I with thanks partake why” , “this [finds] favor with God.”, “or you have found favor with God.”, “to carry your gift to Jerusalem”,” I thank God, whom”, “let us show gratitude, by which”,”
The thing these two have in common is that they represent that which comes as a gift (grace) and that which is given back (a thanks or appreciation).
“Thus, If I have found grace in your eyes” – would imply appreciation, love of the true and beautiful, etc.
Charis to God – would mean, thanks be to God. etc.
Charis is also the Spartan name of a Grace. ... In the Greek and Hebrew biblical term Charis (χάρις) refers to good will, loving-kindness, favour, in particular to God's merciful grace. It is used over 140 times in the New Testament and is a central concept in the theology developed by St.Paul.
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