How Powerful is the Blood of Jesus?

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CharismaticLady

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1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

What does it mean to be cleansed from all unrighteousness? Does that include the desire to sin? Why instead of acknowledging "cleanse" do some believe the blood of Jesus only FORGIVES all unrighteousness, but we will still sin all of our lives, and Jesus cleanses our present and future sins as well as our past sins, but does nothing for the desire to sin. If we believe that Jesus' blood cleanses and forgives our past, present and future sins instead of making us truly born again with a new nature, and free from the desire to sin in the first place presently and in the future, isn't that is a slap in the face of how powerful we believe the blood of Jesus truly is?

Jesus came to make us truly righteous and holy as the Father is perfect. He came to make us like Himself - the first of many brethren. Romans 8:29 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."
 

CharismaticLady

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obviously so weak in your theology that it cannot forgive all sins-past present and future. Its an atonement only for some sins, not all sin. Its unbiblical and heretical.

Why do you believe those who have been cleansed of all unrighteousness will still keep sinning in the present and future? Again, why? Unbiblical? Do you know what "dead to sin" means?
 

ChristisGod

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Why do you believe those who have been cleansed of all unrighteousness will still keep sinning in the present and future? Again, why? Unbiblical? Do you know what "dead to sin" means?
did you know lying is a sin ?

you are not sinless

end of story and telling a lie is a sin.
 

ChristisGod

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Why do you believe those who have been cleansed of all unrighteousness will still keep sinning in the present and future? Again, why? Unbiblical? Do you know what "dead to sin" means?
As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.got?

hope this helps !!!
 

CharismaticLady

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As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.got?

hope this helps !!!

You are reading verses out of context as usual. If you are waiting for the rapture to be made perfect, remember the state we are in when we die, is the state we will be forever, and only those who ARE righteous or holy will enter heaven. Revelation 22:11
 
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ChristisGod

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Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]

Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.

We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism - The Gospel Coalition | Australia

hope this helps !!!
 

ChristisGod

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You are reading verses out of context as usual. If you are waiting for the rapture to be made perfect, remember the state we are in when we die, is the state we will be forever, and only those who ARE righteous or holy will enter heaven. Revelation 22:11
Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection ?

No, a Christian cannot achieve sinless perfection; that is, on this side of heaven. Though there are Christians who say they do not sin anymore, they are in error. In order to achieve a sinless state of perfection, the Christian's motivations would have to be pure and perfect at all times because God looks at the condition of the heart as well as our actions. Consider the following verses.

  • Matthew 5:28, "but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
  • Matthew 22:37, "And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’"
  • Matthew 22:39, "'The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’"
We see that Jesus taught that the intention of the heart is important to God. This is because God's heart is perfect. He is holy which is why He says in 1 Peter 1:16, "Be holy, for I am holy." God is the standard of holiness, and Jesus reveals the necessity of the perfect standard.

Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that.

But there are those who say the Bible says we do not sin.

  • 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him."
  • 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
  • 1 John 5:18, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him."
The Bible is not saying that we don't sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following.

  • 1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
  • 1 John 2:1, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not.

So, a Christian is to struggle against his sin and to see this before God. But we cannot say that every intention of our hearts is always perfect and pure. If it were, we would not need an intercessor before God once we are saved. The idea of sinless perfectionism is an error that is refuted by Scripture.Matt Slick

hope this helps !!!
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]

Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.

We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism - The Gospel Coalition | Australia

hope this helps !!!

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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ChristisGod

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Sinless perfectionism is the self righteous leaven of the Pharisees. See Matthew 23 below

13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

hope this helps !!!
 

CharismaticLady

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Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection ?

No, a Christian cannot achieve sinless perfection; that is, on this side of heaven. Though there are Christians who say they do not sin anymore, they are in error. In order to achieve a sinless state of perfection, the Christian's motivations would have to be pure and perfect at all times because God looks at the condition of the heart as well as our actions. Consider the following verses.

  • Matthew 5:28, "but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
  • Matthew 22:37, "And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’"
  • Matthew 22:39, "'The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’"
We see that Jesus taught that the intention of the heart is important to God. This is because God's heart is perfect. He is holy which is why He says in 1 Peter 1:16, "Be holy, for I am holy." God is the standard of holiness, and Jesus reveals the necessity of the perfect standard.

Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that.

But there are those who say the Bible says we do not sin.

  • 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him."
  • 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
  • 1 John 5:18, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him."
The Bible is not saying that we don't sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following.

  • 1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
  • 1 John 2:1, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not.

So, a Christian is to struggle against his sin and to see this before God. But we cannot say that every intention of our hearts is always perfect and pure. If it were, we would not need an intercessor before God once we are saved. The idea of sinless perfectionism is an error that is refuted by Scripture.Matt Slick

hope this helps !!!

You are still preaching weak blood and using scriptures about all before Christ out of context, such as 1 John 1:8. Unbiblical and heresy.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sinless perfectionism is the self righteous leaven of the Pharisees. See Matthew 23 below

13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

hope this helps !!!

So you believe to go on sinning because they are all forgiven anyway? Wouldn't you call that a doctrine of demons? I sure would.
 
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ChristisGod

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How do you stop sinning, and when? In heaven?
in the Resurrection until them all will sin , the difference is a believer will strive to please Christ and abhor sin until the day of Christ. A believer loves God and hates sin but that does not make them sinless.
 

Nancy

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1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

What does it mean to be cleansed from all unrighteousness? Does that include the desire to sin? Why instead of acknowledging "cleanse" do some believe the blood of Jesus only FORGIVES all unrighteousness, but we will still sin all of our lives, and Jesus cleanses our present and future sins as well as our past sins, but does nothing for the desire to sin. If we believe that Jesus' blood cleanses and forgives our past, present and future sins instead of making us truly born again with a new nature, and free from the desire to sin in the first place presently and in the future, isn't that is a slap in the face of how powerful we believe the blood of Jesus truly is?

Jesus came to make us truly righteous and holy as the Father is perfect. He came to make us like Himself - the first of many brethren. Romans 8:29 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."



"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"
Philippians 1:6

"Not that I have already obtained, or am already perfected, but I press on. . . . One thing I do, I press on toward the goal. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect-(attaining to the high calling of God, pressing on...?) be thus minded. Brethren, be ye imitators together of me."
Philippians 3:12-17.

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings."
Hebrews 2:10

I think that all true Christians hate sin. But we long to be perfected in every way yet, not until the day of Jesus Christ will it be completed IMHO "...will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" . I know that I recognize sin that I never even imagined WAS sin...until He showed me different. I see it as a growth thing and, as we learn to hate sin as He does, we will be convicted even before we act on sinful thoughts...learn to banish them from the mind before they take hold. Yet, we DO lose battles at times, less and less I should hope. But the key to me is getting back up and in the race again and I say "Thank you Jesus for dying for my sins and forgiving me! Amen. Then, it is on to the race once again, hopefully the stronger for it! :)

I have already been forgiven of all of my sins as, I had not committed a single sin when He died for ALL sin...I simply thank Him and trust in His awesome grace to resist all manner of sin, whether in thought, deed, omission. And, of course, He does this very thing in my own life. It is an awesome thing to have our eyes opened to His wonderful grace. Yes, many use His grace as a license to sin. These, IMHO, are not saved people, at all. They still love the darkness and think God forgives them no matter how they sin against Him. Hard to believe their are folks out there who sit in a pew week after week and grow not an inch. It's like sitting in a garage long enough, you will become a car! Ha! These truly abuse His grace. His grace is so powerful, there are no human words to describe it! And He is faithful, even when we are not.
xx




 

CharismaticLady

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in the Resurrection until them all will sin , the difference is a believer will strive to please Christ and abhor sin until the day of Christ. A believer loves God and hates sin but that does not make them sinless.

So in other word, only by your own works do you strive to overcome sin. Self-righteousness. Personally, I couldn't stop sinning until Jesus changed my nature and I hated sin to the point of not doing it. I only did what comes naturally to my new nature that the Spirit of Christ put in me.
 

CharismaticLady

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"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"
Philippians 1:6

"Not that I have already obtained, or am already perfected, but I press on. . . . One thing I do, I press on toward the goal. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect-(attaining to the high calling of God, pressing on...?) be thus minded. Brethren, be ye imitators together of me."
Philippians 3:12-17.

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings."
Hebrews 2:10

I think that all true Christians hate sin. But we long to be perfected in every way yet, not until the day of Jesus Christ will it be completed IMHO "...will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" . I know that I recognize sin that I never even imagined WAS sin...until He showed me different. I see it as a growth thing and, as we learn to hate sin as He does, we will be convicted even before we act on sinful thoughts...learn to banish them from the mind before they take hold. Yet, we DO lose battles at times, less and less I should hope. But the key to me is getting back up and in the race again and I say "Thank you Jesus for dying for my sins and forgiving me! Amen. Then, it is on to the race once again, hopefully the stronger for it! :)

I have already been forgiven of all of my sins as, I had not committed a single sin when He died for ALL sin...I simply thank Him and trust in His awesome grace to resist all manner of sin, whether in thought, deed, omission. And, of course, He does this very thing in my own life. It is an awesome thing to have our eyes opened to His wonderful grace. Yes, many use His grace as a license to sin. These, IMHO, are not saved people, at all. They still love the darkness and think God forgives them no matter how they sin against Him. Hard to believe their are folks out there who sit in a pew week after week and grow not an inch. It's like sitting in a garage long enough, you will become a car! Ha! These truly abuse His grace. His grace is so powerful, there are no human words to describe it! And He is faithful, even when we are not.
xx


We have different definitions of grace. Mine is His divine power according to 2 Peter 1:2-4. And the Spirit beginning a good work in me is verses 5-7. It doesn't have to do with sin (a done deal), but the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit.
 
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