How Should We Read the Church Fathers?

[Episkopos]

You bore false witness against me, whether intentionally or unintentionally is another matter. You don't know me. Yet you claimed I do not fear God.

You are half-way there! At least you didn't claim to not lack humility. That's a start.

 

[reformed1689]

And what form do you believe those original manuscripts have been preserved for us in?

They haven't been.

 

[reformed1689]

You are half-way there! At least you didn't claim to lack humility. That's a start.

Projecting yourself on others?

 

[Giuliano]

Second, Again, Abraham and Jacob is not a contradiction either. Abraham did, in fact, have land in Shechem where an altar was built and most likely purchased the land on which he built it. The land at some point reverted to the people of Hamor, likely because Abraham did not settle there. Jacob then repurchased it like Isaac repurchased the well at Beersheba. These are not contradictions. Rather, by stating they are contradictions, it shows you haven't studied closely enough and want there to be contradictions.

I was hesitant to answer about the wells since I was not familiar with passages like that. On researching it, I discovered you made a mistake. Isaac redug wells after people had stopped them up.

Genesis 26:18 And Isaac digged again the wells of water, which they had digged in the days of Abraham his father; for the Philistines had stopped them after the death of Abraham: and he called their names after the names by which his father had called them.

 

[marks]

Have you never heard...now that we have the bible we don't need the Spirit?

Straw man nonsense, unfortunately.

 

[Hidden In Him]

They haven't been.

Ok. Well the argument several have been making in this thread is that the Holy Spirit is ultimately the One who reveals what is inspired and what is not. Do you agree with this yourself, or no?

 

[Giuliano]

Stephen was not an author.

Who said he was an author?

You need to read what I wrote, as well as what Peter wrote, again. I did not say interpretation means writing.

I doubt I'd find what your wrote more comprehensible on a second reading. What I will repeat is that I do not feel entitled to have my own private interpretation of the Bible.

Yet we can understand those passages because of Scripture. Your argument is nonsense.

I have no idea what passages Jesus explained since it doesn't say. He could have told them many things which did not get written down.

I don't see that in the passage in the way you are trying to use it.

So Stephen was not speaking by inspiration in your opinion? The only inspired "words" are those which are written down? If that is so, it makes me wonder why Jesus didn't write something. Why would he say his words were spirit and then fail to write them down?

Where does it leave us if we believe only in written down words?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Can we hear Jesus the way Peter did?

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Do you seriously think you can "hear" the words of eternal life by reading? Ah, some people do think this sort of thing; but there is no eternal life to be found in the pages of the Bible. They speak of it, but they are not it.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

As far as the learned Jews. Notice they killed Stephen.

Try to stay relevant. You still fail to explain why they didn't scoff at his lack of learning.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Here is the difference, I do point out where Calvin did not agree with Scripture. Baptism for instance.

I know your heart is as a Baptist, but you go to a United Methodist Church (as I do too), but as far as baptism, do you agree with Baptist's later baptism, or UMC infant baptism. Personally, I haven't witnessed infant baptism at the UMC I go to, but did in another UMC church.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Ok. Well the argument several have been making in this thread is that the Holy Spirit is ultimately the One who reveals what is inspired and what is not. Do you agree with this yourself, or no?

Let me ask it another way: Your position is you believe the Spirit leads us to know what is inspired, but you do not believe He still utters divine revelation because the cannon is now closed, correct?

Just trying to pin down your position.

 

[reformed1689]

I know your heart is as a Baptist, but you go to a United Methodist Church (as I do too), but as far as baptism, do you agree with Baptist's later baptism, or UMC infant baptism. Personally, I haven't witnessed infant baptism at the UMC I go to, but did in another UMC church.

I go to a UMC that is actively looking to get out of the denomination. We align with Baptist theology.

 

[reformed1689]

Who said he was an author?

You said the author made a mistake. The author was quoting Stephen. Stephen was not the author.

I doubt I'd find what your wrote more comprehensible on a second reading. What I will repeat is that I do not feel entitled to have my own private interpretation of the Bible.

Then this shows your dishonesty. You were told you read what I wrote incorrectly but then won't go back and read it. So you stand by the lie of saying something I did not actually say.

Try to stay relevant. You still fail to explain why they didn't scoff at his lack of learning.

THEY KILLED HIM for going against Jewish teaching. Last time I checked that was MORE HARSH than scoffing.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I go to a UMC that is actively looking to get out of the denomination. We align with Baptist theology.

Yes, we are too, but are waiting for the world-wide meeting in April. You too? But we align to the original doctrines of Wesley, who was against Calvin. There are many "Baptists." Are you Southern Baptist which is Calvinistic? (I think?) Are you OSAS? Methodists aren't. And mine is Spirit-filled and practices the gifts of the Spirit.

 

[reformed1689]

Ok. Well the argument several have been making in this thread is that the Holy Spirit is ultimately the One who reveals what is inspired and what is not. Do you agree with this yourself, or no?

It depends what they mean by that.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes, we are too, but are waiting for the world-wide meeting in April. You too? But we align to the original doctrines of Wesley, who was against Calvin. There are many "Baptists." Are you Southern Baptist which is Calvinistic? (I think?) Are you OSAS? Methodists aren't. And mine is Spirit-filled and practices the gifts of the Spirit.

We are working out as a church what we would want to align with. Yes, I am of the eternal security camp. Methodists are not because they misread Scriptures.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ok. Well the argument several have been making in this thread is that the Holy Spirit is ultimately the One who reveals what is inspired and what is not. Do you agree with this yourself, or no?

I do. And I do not believe the Roman Church put all inspired writings into the canon, even though it wasn't their call to make.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are working out as a church what we would want to align with. Yes, I am of the eternal security camp. Methodists are not because they misread Scriptures.

LOL No, Wesley reformed the Reformation.

 

[reformed1689]

LOL No, Wesley reformed the Reformation.

Wesley was wrong on MANY theological points.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Wesley was wrong on MANY theological points.

No, he just didn't agree with Calvin's errors. They were clear as day to Jacob Arminius also.

 

[reformed1689]

No, he just didn't agree with Calvin's errors. They were clear as day to Jacob Arminius also.

No, he didn't agree with Scripture.

 

[Enoch111]

This idea that the ECF have some special authority is nonsense. The ECF goes for CENTURIES after the Apostles.

I was just checking Tertullian on what he wrote about baptism. Basically he said that water washes away sins and regenerates the soul (with a very lengthy dissertation). That false teaching of baptismal regeneration was first promoted by the ECF, starting with Justin Martyr. John 3:5 was misunderstood from a very early time.