How to be an honest Christian thinker.

[Karl Peters]

How to understand the Bible. Well, to be honest one must take in the whole counsel of God.

Here is an experiment. Take an extreme view based on one verse or two...now..refute that extreme by finding a verse that seems to contradict it. Do it again and again...until you you have a whole list of seeming contradictions.

To know the truth, even in low resolution form...takes BOTH extremes into account.

The range of our perceptions as humans is very narrow. Dogs can hear things and smell things way beyond the range of humans. Eagles can see much better than we do.

If we can admit that animals are superior to us in many perceptions...then why is it so difficult to consider that the writers of the Bible had far more understanding than we do? Do we limit the smell of dogs to what we can smell? Do we limit eagles to what we can see?

So why do we limit God and those whom He reveals Himself to?

God hates an unjust balance.

"A false balance (moznayim) is abomination to the Lord: but a just weight is his delight." Prov. 11:1

The word for balance in Hebrew means "from ears" (plural) moznayim, which means we have to listen with both ears. Now hardly anyone does this. People will accept a notion of the truth as if truth was the same as facts. We are so used to forming our own opinions we don't realize that facts are only for this temporal world. We need an entirely other means to understand eternal truth. And eternal truth always comes to us as a plurality of seeming contradictions. That's why a balanced view is so important.

Our opinions will lead us astray...every time.

We are not to lean on our own understanding. We will certainly close one of our ears unless we have experienced eternal truth on ITS terms...not ours.

I like the OP though it seems a bit unclear. I thought I might try a clear a few things up.

First is that we are not trying to understand the Bible but rather we need to be trying to understand what God what for us - as in what God wants us to do. So if our opening question thoughts are "How to understand the Bible" - we need better understanding. Like a textbook, the Lord as our Teacher will use the Bible to help us understand, but it is not understanding the textbook that is important but understand what God wants us to do that is important. The first words I hear Him tell me were, "Read Your Bible" so one thing God wants me to do is read my Bible, but that is just one thing and not a primary thing. Life is made up of a whole lot more that reading your Bible!!

Now as for "To know the truth" - well one of the nice pieces of understanding we can get from reading the Bible is that Jesus Christ is the Truth!! So I am not sure what "even low resolution form... takes Both extremes into account" means. Does it mean not seeing Jesus Christ with enough clarity, meaning we need to practice using our spiritual eyes more? Perhaps it means using both our physical eyes and our spiritual eyes. Afterall, God is spirit so if we are going to see the "Truth" Jesus Christ then we are going to be using our spiritual eyes unless He comes in the flesh on to this world again while we are still in the flesh. Maybe the OP is talking about some symbolic meaning of "low resolution". It's written in red in the OP, so it must be important to the OP but is perhaps the most vague part of the OP. So I go with using our spiritual eyes, because the Lord gets on to me for not using my spiritual eyes more. I find it weird to see the Spirit of Jesus next to me in the car while I talk back and forth with Him. He of course is omni-present, so everywhere, but He shows up to our spiritual eyes in places that have meaning for us - like just sitting next to us in the car and talking to us via that small voice of His. So I like the OP, but it is hard to actually tell what the author means?

Then in the OP we see comparisons with how animals hear and perceive compared to us. Obviously with some parabolic meaning, which I like. But as for limiting God and those whom He reveals Himself to, applies strictly to us personally!!!

Maybe that is the point of the OP, to show us that each of us personally limit God in our lives. Yes, that is the case!! We don't use our spiritual senses like we should. I know I don't, and from all I see, only Jesus Christ did and said only what the Father told Him, which is why He alone is called the Word of God and why He alone was found worthy, even in all the heavens. Still that is always a good thing to point out: that we need to all seek Him more in our lives! So I like the OP.

Then it instantly goes into "an unjust balance". The OP covers balance meaning to listen with both ears. It still is not clear what exactly was meant by "both ears". I mean everyone has 2 physical ears - one on each side of the head, and then there is also the physical ears and spiritual ears? And since God made both the heavens and the ear, do we not also have two spiritual ears, one on both sides of our spiritual head" Maybe one to hear the Lord and one to hear the enemy? Some deep spiritual thinking, but also unclear thinking! Maybe it is somewhat cleared up with the "our own opinions" part that comes up afterwards? Perhaps the author of the OP is referring to both ears to mean our thinking verses God's thinking - as is do we just listen to ourselves an our understanding or do we listen to the small voice of the Lord and try to pick up on what He has to say to us?

To me that is the question, and the question that gets at the truth! Since Jesus Christ is the TRUTH, then to get the truth I have to listen to Him and not just lean on my understanding!!! Maybe that is all that really needed to be written in the OP -

So really the OP only needed to ask - Do we listen to Jesus Christ every day called "Today" or not?

 

[Episkopos]

I like the OP though it seems a bit unclear. I thought I might try a clear a few things up.

First is that we are not trying to understand the Bible but rather we need to be trying to understand what God what for us - as in what God wants us to do. So if our opening question thoughts are "How to understand the Bible" - we need better understanding. Like a textbook, the Lord as our Teacher will use the Bible to help us understand, but it is not understanding the textbook that is important but understand what God wants us to do that is important. The first words I hear Him tell me were, "Read Your Bible" so one thing God wants me to do is read my Bible, but that is just one thing and not a primary thing. Life is made up of a whole lot more that reading your Bible!!

Now as for "To know the truth" - well one of the nice pieces of understanding we can get from reading the Bible is that Jesus Christ is the Truth!! So I am not sure what "even low resolution form... takes Both extremes into account" means. Does it mean not seeing Jesus Christ with enough clarity, meaning we need to practice using our spiritual eyes more? Perhaps it means using both our physical eyes and our spiritual eyes. Afterall, God is spirit so if we are going to see the "Truth" Jesus Christ then we are going to be using our spiritual eyes unless He comes in the flesh on to this world again while we are still in the flesh. Maybe the OP is talking about some symbolic meaning of "low resolution". It's written in red in the OP, so it must be important to the OP but is perhaps the most vague part of the OP. So I go with using our spiritual eyes, because the Lord gets on to me for not using my spiritual eyes more. I find it weird to see the Spirit of Jesus next to me in the car while I talk back and forth with Him. He of course is omni-present, so everywhere, but He shows up to our spiritual eyes in places that have meaning for us - like just sitting next to us in the car and talking to us via that small voice of His. So I like the OP, but it is hard to actually tell what the author means?

Then in the OP we see comparisons with how animals hear and perceive compared to us. Obviously with some parabolic meaning, which I like. But as for limiting God and those whom He reveals Himself to, applies strictly to us personally!!!

Maybe that is the point of the OP, to show us that each of us personally limit God in our lives. Yes, that is the case!! We don't use our spiritual senses like we should. I know I don't, and from all I see, only Jesus Christ did and said only what the Father told Him, which is why He alone is called the Word of God and why He alone was found worthy, even in all the heavens. Still that is always a good thing to point out: that we need to all seek Him more in our lives! So I like the OP.

Then it instantly goes into "an unjust balance". The OP covers balance meaning to listen with both ears. It still is not clear what exactly was meant by "both ears". I mean everyone has 2 physical ears - one on each side of the head, and then there is also the physical ears and spiritual ears? And since God made both the heavens and the ear, do we not also have two spiritual ears, one on both sides of our spiritual head" Maybe one to hear the Lord and one to hear the enemy? Some deep spiritual thinking, but also unclear thinking! Maybe it is somewhat cleared up with the "our own opinions" part that comes up afterwards? Perhaps the author of the OP is referring to both ears to mean our thinking verses God's thinking - as is do we just listen to ourselves an our understanding or do we listen to the small voice of the Lord and try to pick up on what He has to say to us?

To me that is the question, and the question that gets at the truth! Since Jesus Christ is the TRUTH, then to get the truth I have to listen to Him and not just lean on my understanding!!! Maybe that is all that really needed to be written in the OP -

So really the OP only needed to ask - Do we listen to Jesus Christ every day called "Today" or not?

First of all...good post. Jesus doesn't go into great detail when He speaks to us...since we have His words written down already. When He speaks to us it is usually very briefly and only in the situation at hand. So then we need to both listen to the "still small voice" in our hearts AND study the words of the Lord to get an understanding of God's ways.

A low-resolution understanding is able to be understand with the power of the mind. Jesus spoke in parables for that reason...there being more than one level to them. Anything beyond a low resolution understanding must come about through spiritual discernment.

The knowledge of the holy is understanding.

In the early church those who were spiritual would help those who weren't to become so. Nowadays we have nonspiritual men teaching things so that the spiritual in Christ sound foreign...like they are making things up. We are living in a time where sound doctrine is no longer endured. We live in a privileged generation where anything that costs too much is set aside. When false teachers teach an easy way (wide road) these become spoiled and can no longer hear the more difficult levels of truth.

 

[Berserk]

APPARENT CONTRADICTIONS ON DIVORCE:
divorce for any reason (Deut. 24:1-4)
divorce prohibited (Mark 10:11-12)
divorce and remarriage permissible in the case of adultery (Matthew 19:9)
divorce and remarriage permissible in a marriage between a believer and an unbeliever (1 Cor. 7:15)

APPARENT INCONSISTENCIES ON THE GIFTS OF TONGUES AND PROPHECY:
Not everyone speaks in tongues and prophesies (1 cOR. 12:29-30).
BUT: We can all prophesy (14:31).
Paul wants every believer to speak in tongues and prophesy (14:5).
In the list of spiritual gifts in 12:28 speaking in tongues is listed last.
BUT: We must all seek the best spiritual gifts, which include speaking in tongues and prophecy (14:1; cp. 12:31). The gifts of tongues and prophecy can be measures of spiritual "greatness (14:5)."

 

[Karl Peters]

First of all...good post. Jesus doesn't go into great detail when He speaks to us...since we have His words written down already. When He speaks to us it is usually very briefly and only in the situation at hand. So then we need to both listen to the "still small voice" in our hearts AND study the words of the Lord to get an understanding of God's ways.

A low-resolution understanding is able to be understand with the power of the mind. Jesus spoke in parables for that reason...there being more than one level to them. Anything beyond a low resolution understanding must come about through spiritual discernment.

The knowledge of the holy is understanding.

In the early church those who were spiritual would help those who weren't to become so. Nowadays we have nonspiritual men teaching things so that the spiritual in Christ sound foreign...like they are making things up. We are living in a time where sound doctrine is no longer endured. We live in a privileged generation where anything that costs too much is set aside. When false teachers teach an easy way (wide road) these become spoiled and can no longer hear the more difficult levels of truth.

Episkipos - I enjoy your post. I like posts on this forum that get me thinking. Now my thinking winds up getting me to take the thoughts to Jesus Christ and listen to Him on that subject. Now when I listen to Him I find His thinking is far beyond mine, but that does not mean He is hard to hear. It means that He is incredible - using a few words to mean sooooo much. That does not mean that He will not go into great detail as He wishes.

He does use a lot of parables, but that is because parables often help get us thinking. Yet again, that is to get us seeking more information from Him, and He will keep explaining if we keep seeking Him. So I would not say 'understanding comes through great spiritual discernment' but rather that great understanding and great discernment comes for spending a lot of time just listening to Him. By writing 'spiritual discernment' do you not mean spiritual understanding? I think so. It looks like you are just saying understanding comes from understanding, or spiritual discernment comes from spiritual discernment. When in fact understanding/spiritual discernment come from spending time listen to the Lord!

In fact the Lord once told me that "understanding is understanding that He is Understanding."

Which we can also read in these two verses:

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Prov 8:14 “Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.

So Understanding is in fact a name for Jesus Christ!! He is called Understanding because listening to Him gives us understanding and nothing else. So it is not our discernment but our listening to the words of God that come from His mouth.

And you don't study the words, like you would a book, but you listen and consider what He says. Indeed, did we not study the Bible and still fail to realize that He is Understanding, even though that was clearly explained? So we have to study the Bible and then listen to Him for understanding! He then gives us that understanding or spiritual discernment (however we want to call it), and He gives it to use through His mouth!

If we truly understand that He is Understanding, just like it is written and just like He tells us when we listen to Him, then we would listen to Him and get a lot more details on this subject.

Indeed, we need a lot more understanding (listening to Him) how else are we going to know who to vote for, what church to go to, what jobs to take, which task to do, and even when to turn to the right or to the left! That is a lot of detail we need to know and all of it should come from listening to Him!

Is 30:20,21 Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

It is written that He will guide your steps, and we take a lot of steps every day! That is a lot of detail, and a lot of turning to the right and left! So we need a lot of understanding (listening to Him Today)

 

[BarneyFife]

How to understand the Bible. Well, to be honest one must take in the whole counsel of God.

Here is an experiment. Take an extreme view based on one verse or two...now..refute that extreme by finding a verse that seems to contradict it. Do it again and again...until you you have a whole list of seeming contradictions.

To know the truth, even in low resolution form...takes BOTH extremes into account.

The range of our perceptions as humans is very narrow. Dogs can hear things and smell things way beyond the range of humans. Eagles can see much better than we do.

If we can admit that animals are superior to us in many perceptions...then why is it so difficult to consider that the writers of the Bible had far more understanding than we do? Do we limit the smell of dogs to what we can smell? Do we limit eagles to what we can see?

So why do we limit God and those whom He reveals Himself to?

God hates an unjust balance.

"A false balance (moznayim) is abomination to the Lord: but a just weight is his delight." Prov. 11:1

The word for balance in Hebrew means "from ears" (plural) moznayim, which means we have to listen with both ears. Now hardly anyone does this. People will accept a notion of the truth as if truth was the same as facts. We are so used to forming our own opinions we don't realize that facts are only for this temporal world. We need an entirely other means to understand eternal truth. And eternal truth always comes to us as a plurality of seeming contradictions. That's why a balanced view is so important.

Our opinions will lead us astray...every time.

We are not to lean on our own understanding. We will certainly close one of our ears unless we have experienced eternal truth on ITS terms...not ours.

How to understand the Bible:

Look for Jesus in It.

.

 

[amigo de christo]

See, you don't understand the deeper level that indeed condemnation is from God....not men. Being condemned by men is a good thing. Blessed are you when men hate you for My name's sake. But you are missing an entire dimension of the truth. You are shutting down your ears so that the truth cannot penetrate ...which is the subject of this thread. You are doing precisely what is unwise and unbalanced.

Not all in Israel are OF Israel. Not all Christians that are in Christ are OF Christ. One is corporate and the other is individual.

Paul spoke of not taking on a novice believer as an overseer lest he fall under the condemnation of the devil. So in your way of thinking that would be a good thing...since it is ok to be condemned by the devil (which is the same kind of misunderstanding you are making with the other example) . But what if it actually means to be condemned WITH the devil. (which it does) That goes beyond your understanding of what it means to be in Christ. It takes some humility to admit that. I don't see humility around here...among believers.

To be balanced you would have to say that in Christ there is no condemnation from men and weigh that against your opinion that the greater condemnation of teachers is from men. Then you have a just weight.

Do you understand balance?

Do you actually know what it means to not trust your own understanding?

Offences are allowed by GOD , but the true lambs going under them are not CONDEMNED by GOD
rather they suffer FOR HIM . AND ITS A BLESSING and A HONOR TO DO SO .

 

[Berserk]

When I was a young teenager, a well-read older Christian in my church encouraged me to read devotional books. Then he said something unexpected that starteled me and has influenced my life. He said, "You don't have to be stupid to be a Christian, but sometimes I feel like I sure helps!" Evangelicals often complain about the best educated Bible scholars with remarks like, "Some people are just educated beyond their intelligence." Text critic B. F. Wescott famously critiqued this naivitee this way: "The simple Gospel is not so simple as the simple would have you suppose." Modern Bible scholars know the original languages of Scripture (Greek, Hebrew, and, yes, Aramaic) and recognize that a proper grasp of Scripture requires a knowledge of these languages and the historical and cultural backgrounds that give them meaning in specific biblical texts. There is often no one-to-one correspondence between the Hebew or Greek words in Scripture and the English words used to translate them. In that sense, the Bible has never been translated.

Fundamentalists who ignore modern Bible scholarship and claim that what Jesus told them a text means trumps what academic studies say it means are on a par with the crazy guy who asked his neighbor, "Can you hear the voice in the back of my head?" One Sunday pastor introduced his sermon this way: "Today marks the beginning of a sermon series involving EXEGESIS IN Romans." Upon hearing this, an old saint at the back of the church shouted, "Praise His holy name!" An uneducated evangelist once bellowed from the pulpit, "I like my religion the way I like my tea--hot. 'Cause I'd rather be a fool on fire than a scholar on ice--and it's easier to cool a hot coal than to warm up a corpse. Honestly, when I drive by them liberal churches, I take my hat off out of respect for the dead!" Such panderers to the mindless herd are often "fools in ice" who need to seek out godly "scholars on fire."

Not that everything Bible scholars say should be taken at face value. Sometimes they disagree among themselves. But before they can claim the status of honest seekers, fundamentalists must investigate the reasons for a modern scholarly consensus on particular biblical topics.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Maybe that is the point of the OP, to show us that each of us personally limit God in our lives. Yes, that is the case!! We don't use our spiritual senses like we should. I know I don't, and from all I see, only Jesus Christ did and said only what the Father told Him, which is why He alone is called the Word of God and why He alone was found worthy, even in all the heavens. Still that is always a good thing to point out: that we need to all seek Him more in our lives! So I like the OP.

Then it instantly goes into "an unjust balance". The OP covers balance meaning to listen with both ears. It still is not clear what exactly was meant by "both ears". I mean everyone has 2 physical ears - one on each side of the head, and then there is also the physical ears and spiritual ears? And since God made both the heavens and the ear, do we not also have two spiritual ears, one on both sides of our spiritual head" Maybe one to hear the Lord and one to hear the enemy? Some deep spiritual thinking, but also unclear thinking! Maybe it is somewhat cleared up with the "our own opinions" part that comes up afterwards? Perhaps the author of the OP is referring to both ears to mean our thinking verses God's thinking - as is do we just listen to ourselves an our understanding or do we listen to the small voice of the Lord and try to pick up on what He has to say to us?

To me that is the question, and the question that gets at the truth! Since Jesus Christ is the TRUTH, then to get the truth I have to listen to Him and not just lean on my understanding!!!

People are going to make mistakes. Humans are flawed. They are going to make their mistakes.

Anyone can say they hear from the lord. Anyone can have a zeal for God, but it's not always going to be received well, even if a person has good intentions.

 

[Episkopos]

When I was a young teenager, a well-read older Christian in my church encouraged me to read devotional books. Then he said something unexpected that starteled me and has influenced my life. He said, "You don't have to be stupid to be a Christian, but sometimes I feel like I sure helps!" Evangelicals often complain about the best educated Bible scholars with remarks like, "Some people are just educated beyond their intelligence." Text critic B. F. Wescott famously critiqued this naivitee this way: "The simple Gospel is not so simple as the simple would have you suppose." Modern Bible scholars know the original languages of Scripture (Greek, Hebrew, and, yes, Aramaic) and recognize that a proper grasp of Scripture requires a knowledge of these languages and the historical and cultural backgrounds that give them meaning in specific biblical texts. There is often no one-to-one correspondence between the Hebew or Greek words in Scripture and the English words used to translate them. In that sense, the Bible has never been translated.

Fundamentalists who ignore modern Bible scholarship and claim that what Jesus told them a text means trumps what academic studies say it means are on a par with the crazy guy who asked his neighbor, "Can you hear the voice in the back of my head?" One Sunday pastor introduced his sermon this way: "Today marks the beginning of a sermon series involving EXEGESIS IN Romans." Upon hearing this, an old saint at the back of the church shouted, "Praise His holy name!" An uneducated evangelist once bellowed from the pulpit, "I like my religion the way I like my tea--hot. 'Cause I'd rather be a fool on fire than a scholar on ice--and it's easier to cool a hot coal than to warm up a corpse. Honestly, when I drive by them liberal churches, I take my hat off out of respect for the dead!" Such panderers to the mindless herd are often "fools in ice" who need to seek out godly "scholars on fire."

Not that everything Bible scholars say should be taken at face value. Sometimes they disagree among themselves. But before they can claim the status of honest seekers, fundamentalists must investigate the reasons for a modern scholarly consensus on particular biblical topics.

We have gone from the prophetic to the scholarly: from experiential knowledge of God to the theoretical notions established by carnal men.

There will never be a consensus by these types of people. They will avoid a proper balance by championing one extreme view or the other. Why? because an extreme view will attract a larger crowd. No one seems to understand balance. It seems to please no one.

By balance I don't mean compromise. The truth is not a compromise. It is simply bigger than what a carnal mind can fathom. We can try making a formula out of love or eternal life... but we will fail. Living things cannot be expressed using dead things.

The deadness of the modern church has led to a collapse in modern society. Without holiness in the church we are seeing an increase in unrighteousness. And that trend is increasing as a snowball effect....without any movement from believers except to complain about it.

The truth sets us free. But believers prefer the bondage of an intellectual position that has no power. We are far too spoiled and rich to understand kingdom life and power.

 

[Karl Peters]

How to understand the Bible:

Look for Jesus in It.

.

Jesus Christ is not "in the Bible" He will come into you if you let Him. The way you let Him in is to listen to Him! He is a person, the Son of God, the Christ - and His name is called "The Word of God". His sheep hear His voice, and anyone can start hearing from Him! It is explained in the Bible that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice (which is different that reading the Bible/Scriptures) then He will come into them and dine with them and them with Him. (Rev 3:20)

There is a problem that we read about in the Bible and that is that His people (the Jews) were searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of seeking Him! We are grafted into the Jewish root, so that can also be a problem for us today!!

Jn 5:30,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It is not that we don't need to read and study the Bible - after all the Scripture above clearly shows us that Jesus is not the Scriptures and seeking Him is not the same as searching the Scriptures. So we can learn that is wrong by reading our Bibles. The Scriptures are: "inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [fn]training in righteousness;" After all, people before us heard from the Lord and wrote down what He told them! However them hearing from Him is not you and I hearing from Him!! We need to be like those people who heard form the Lord and hear from Him for ourselves!!! Again, His sheep hear His voice. So what do you hear?

Lots of things is the answer because He talks to us every day called "Today", right? We hear Him, and so we can testify about Him and things He has told us. Now not many people posting seem to credit things said to them as being from Him, but I do because I want people to hear from Him!! He has told me things like:

A MITE IS AN ANIMAL THAT GETS UNDER THE SKIN TO GET AT THE BLOOD….. KARL, THERE IS MIGHT IN THE BLOOD, BUT I WANT A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP THAN THAT.

The fact is that many "Christians" get under His skin because they want the power of God, but He wants a closer relationship than that! We get that closer relationship with Him by spending time just talking back and forth with Him!! So talk to Him, and I don't mean read your Bible and think that is talking back and forth with Him. Actually ask Him questions and listen for answer!! You can start by asking Him questions about your Bible if you want, but I suggest you get a bit more personal with Him. Ask Him, "Jesus Christ, how do you fell about me?" and then listen! That is a really good way to start a personal relationship with Him!

He is not your Bible!!




Gal 3:22 ut the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

 

[marks]

So I would not say 'understanding comes through great spiritual discernment' but rather that great understanding and great discernment comes for spending a lot of time just listening to Him. By writing 'spiritual discernment' do you not mean spiritual understanding? I think so. It looks like you are just saying understanding comes from understanding, or spiritual discernment comes from spiritual discernment. When in fact understanding/spiritual discernment come from spending time listen to the Lord!

Well stated!

Much love!

 

[marks]

You think you understand what I'm talking about...ok...Explain how Christian teachers get the greater condemnation if there is no condemnation in Christ. Explain how that Christian teachers are not in Christ. And greater condemnation means that lesser Christians can also receive condemnation.

James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

The greater condemnation, from whom? From God? Or from others? This passage does not state which it is speaking of. The same is true of being justified in chapter 2, just before this passage. That justification is to men, who can see the works, not God, who sees the heart. But James does give the reason we are judged more harshly, because in many things, we offend everyone.

He concludes the matter with,

James 3:13 KJV
13) Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

When we set ourselves as teachers, we put ourselves in the position that we will be judged more harshly than others who are not teachers. Because unless you are the perfect - mature - man you will not have your tongue under control, and that's going to affect how others perceive you.

God does not condemn us, but people will (krino, not katakrino {down-judged, that is, condemned}). Let not man be teachers, because we have the potential to offend everyone, and we will be more harshly judged. The mature man is able to control his tongue, but otherwise, the tongue is a raging fire. So look out!

And I would not consider it unthinkable that this may refer to the Lord's judgment of us, just the same, we will all be judged by God, regardless of this passage, it is well established, but in Christ we are not condemned, and there is more to judgment than condemnation.

In the reference to offending all, I consider this the source of the judging. And I certainly see that play itself out over and over.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jas_5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Another of those "gray" scriptures, let your yea be yea, and nay be nay...does it mean we cant say more than "yea" and "nay?"

Simply put, when you say yes, make it really yes. And if you say no, make it really know. Be honest and straightfoward.

Better to not make a vow - say nothing - than make a vow and not keep it - be disengenuous.

Much love!

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Talking with a pastor about how easily one or two bible verses are taken wholly out of context. He showed me, take the verses, read them, then read one at a time, then put the second before the first. Now write down what you got out of the verse or verses. Now read the verses on either side of what you started with, does that change your notes. Now read the entire chapter, does that change your notes. Now read the chapters before and after the chapter from where the verse(s) were taken. Then read all three chapters through.
When you are done go back and read those verses and write a new set of notes.

Having done this exercise more than a few times, I find that verses I have been properly taught do not change my notes. While other verses studying the broader context completely changes what I take as the meaning of a verse or verses when taken just by themselves.

As a student of Martin Luther, I find this type of bible study fits into his, "READ, WISE, LEARN AND INWARDLY DIGEST," or in simpler words, Read, Consider, study and give great thought to.

Al

 

[Karl Peters]

Talking with a pastor about how easily one or two bible verses are taken wholly out of context. He showed me, take the verses, read them, then read one at a time, then put the second before the first. Now write down what you got out of the verse or verses. Now read the verses on either side of what you started with, does that change your notes. Now read the entire chapter, does that change your notes. Now read the chapters before and after the chapter from where the verse(s) were taken. Then read all three chapters through.
When you are done go back and read those verses and write a new set of notes.

Having done this exercise more than a few times, I find that verses I have been properly taught do not change my notes. While other verses studying the broader context completely changes what I take as the meaning of a verse or verses when taken just by themselves.

As a student of Martin Luther, I find this type of bible study fits into his, "READ, WISE, LEARN AND INWARDLY DIGEST," or in simpler words, Read, Consider, study and give great thought to.

Al

Did your pastor tell you anything about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to what our Lord has to say to you about those verses????



I don't mean to come across snippy - but I don't understand:

That is: I get up in the morning and usually hear my Lord's voice talking to me. So if I read a verse like say:

Ps 143:8 Let me hear Your lovingkindness in the morning; For I trust in You;
Teach me the way in which I should walk; For to You I lift up my soul.

It makes sense to me because that is how it has become from personally knowing the Lord.

And since I do hear from Him, I am going to wind up asking Him question - I mean what else is a person to do if they know God?

Ok - I sometimes have asked silly questions like: "If you want to give me the winning lottery numbers, that is ok by me Lord?"

Of course His response to that was about what I thought it might be but with a little twist, "Ok Karl, if I want to give you the winnind lottery numbers I will. Do you think you can hear them if I do?"

Of course, that made me laugh, because we have to hear by faith, and it is easier to have faith to hear Him for some things than it is for others.

It is not so easy to believe Him for winning lottery numbers, but for interesting information on the Scriptures it is much easier to believe for. After all we know He wants us to read and study the Bible, and we know He is the Teacher (or didn't our pastors explain that to us? - That was not mentioned in the above post!)

When I talk to the Lord on the Scriptures, He doesn't just tie the first verse with the second verse and then more in the chapter. He can of course and might, but He tends to start bringing to mind sections all over the Bible and tying together the most interesting things.

Let me give an example. Did you know that there is a specific tie-in between the gift of tongues, and the tower of babel story? He told me about it one day while discussing the Scriptures with Him. I suppose we might have guessed becasue speaking in tongues tends to sound like a bunch of babel, but there is more to it than that, even more than I can point out now. But the interesting part is that God came down and noted that if men came together all speaking the same language, then nothing would be impossible for them. And remember they were trying to build a tower to heaven! Well, while God broke that apart back then, we now all have (or should be able to get if we desire the gifts by simply asking the Lord) so that we can all (no matter what language of this earth you speak) come together and be lead by the Spirit in the language of angels to pray. Therefore nothing would be impossible for us. Indeed we have a tower (a spiritual tower) to heaven available to us right now. It is explained in the Bible, but to understand it fully and the impact of this, you are probably going to need to seek the Lord and listen to Him.

So why are our pastors not pointing us to our Teacher, Jesus Christ????

Alfred the fifth - I love the name! It reminds me of something. 'The fifth' part tends to point to God's mercy, and He has sooo much of that for us. So no matter what we have done we can still turn back to Him and get to know Him, and get what He promises to us. And He is not only our Teacher but the King of kings! And as King of heaven and earth, and all there is - He will also send angels to watch over us and minister to us (see Ps 91, Hew 1:14) And one of the angels He has sent to minister to me was named Alfred. Well not actually Alfred but All Afraid. Yet I called Him Alfred because that was easier.

The message that All Afraid brought to me and ministered to me was that we are all afraid to believe where we stand with God. That message shows up in the above post. The fact is that we Christians are sons of the Most High God, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, the creator of the Universe, and He is the Teacher!! So why would it not occur to us that we can, as sons of God (and it is written that we will be called sons of God) to not just God before our Lord and Teacher and start asking Him the questions we have - and especially our questions about the Scriptures??? Why don't we do that??

It is because we are afraid to believe we are indeed sons of the living God!!! Deep inside we are "All Afraid" to believe where we stand with God, as His sons that are created by Him and who He loves so much, to just ask Him, and talk to Him, and listen to Him? We think because of our sins and failures (and we all know we have those sins and failures even if we try to hide them) that He won't talk to us and we think we probably won't be able to hear Him if He does. Our sins gets in our way. It has made us all afraid to believe that He would talk to us!!! Well, He will. He might not give us the winning lottery numbers, but He will be happy to listen to the question, because He wants us to have the relationship with Him we were meant to have!

I don't know I could pick up the winning lottery numbers from Him even if He gave them to me. He might give them to me if I would listen to Him well enough and follow Him close enough. He might have a purpose for redistributing money for His purpose and may just need someone to believe in Him enough to listen and learn from Him.

So I am part of the "All" in All Afraid to believe where we stand with God. He is still the Teacher we "All" need to talk to!

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Did your pastor tell you anything about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to what our Lord has to say to you about those verses????



I don't mean to come across snippy - but I don't understand:

That is: I get up in the morning and usually hear my Lord's voice talking to me. So if I read a verse like say:

Ps 143:8 Let me hear Your lovingkindness in the morning; For I trust in You;
Teach me the way in which I should walk; For to You I lift up my soul.

It makes sense to me because that is how it has become from personally knowing the Lord.

And since I do hear from Him, I am going to wind up asking Him question - I mean what else is a person to do if they know God?

Ok - I sometimes have asked silly questions like: "If you want to give me the winning lottery numbers, that is ok by me Lord?"

Of course His response to that was about what I thought it might be but with a little twist, "Ok Karl, if I want to give you the winnind lottery numbers I will. Do you think you can hear them if I do?"

Of course, that made me laugh, because we have to hear by faith, and it is easier to have faith to hear Him for some things than it is for others.

It is not so easy to believe Him for winning lottery numbers, but for interesting information on the Scriptures it is much easier to believe for. After all we know He wants us to read and study the Bible, and we know He is the Teacher (or didn't our pastors explain that to us? - That was not mentioned in the above post!)

When I talk to the Lord on the Scriptures, He doesn't just tie the first verse with the second verse and then more in the chapter. He can of course and might, but He tends to start bringing to mind sections all over the Bible and tying together the most interesting things.

Let me give an example. Did you know that there is a specific tie-in between the gift of tongues, and the tower of babel story? He told me about it one day while discussing the Scriptures with Him. I suppose we might have guessed becasue speaking in tongues tends to sound like a bunch of babel, but there is more to it than that, even more than I can point out now. But the interesting part is that God came down and noted that if men came together all speaking the same language, then nothing would be impossible for them. And remember they were trying to build a tower to heaven! Well, while God broke that apart back then, we now all have (or should be able to get if we desire the gifts by simply asking the Lord) so that we can all (no matter what language of this earth you speak) come together and be lead by the Spirit in the language of angels to pray. Therefore nothing would be impossible for us. Indeed we have a tower (a spiritual tower) to heaven available to us right now. It is explained in the Bible, but to understand it fully and the impact of this, you are probably going to need to seek the Lord and listen to Him.

So why are our pastors not pointing us to our Teacher, Jesus Christ????

Alfred the fifth - I love the name! It reminds me of something. 'The fifth' part tends to point to God's mercy, and He has sooo much of that for us. So no matter what we have done we can still turn back to Him and get to know Him, and get what He promises to us. And He is not only our Teacher but the King of kings! And as King of heaven and earth, and all there is - He will also send angels to watch over us and minister to us (see Ps 91, Hew 1:14) And one of the angels He has sent to minister to me was named Alfred. Well not actually Alfred but All Afraid. Yet I called Him Alfred because that was easier.

The message that All Afraid brought to me and ministered to me was that we are all afraid to believe where we stand with God. That message shows up in the above post. The fact is that we Christians are sons of the Most High God, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, the creator of the Universe, and He is the Teacher!! So why would it not occur to us that we can, as sons of God (and it is written that we will be called sons of God) to not just God before our Lord and Teacher and start asking Him the questions we have - and especially our questions about the Scriptures??? Why don't we do that??

It is because we are afraid to believe we are indeed sons of the living God!!! Deep inside we are "All Afraid" to believe where we stand with God, as His sons that are created by Him and who He loves so much, to just ask Him, and talk to Him, and listen to Him? We think because of our sins and failures (and we all know we have those sins and failures even if we try to hide them) that He won't talk to us and we think we probably won't be able to hear Him if He does. Our sins gets in our way. It has made us all afraid to believe that He would talk to us!!! Well, He will. He might not give us the winning lottery numbers, but He will be happy to listen to the question, because He wants us to have the relationship with Him we were meant to have!

I don't know I could pick up the winning lottery numbers from Him even if He gave them to me. He might give them to me if I would listen to Him well enough and follow Him close enough. He might have a purpose for redistributing money for His purpose and may just need someone to believe in Him enough to listen and learn from Him.

So I am part of the "All" in All Afraid to believe where we stand with God. He is still the Teacher we "All" need to talk to!

In the bible I am seeking Jesus in verses of faith and salvation, verses are both edifying and a trap. Used and understood correctly are beautiful teachers. Verses Taken out of context will find neither Jesus and faith and salvation.

Alfredthefifth comes from being the fifth generation of Afred. My dad the fourth passed on seven years ago and my son the sixth passed away in faith while fighting addiction four years ago next month. My choice of screen name was either my order the fifth or that I am now the only Alfred in my lineage. I am me for the good bad or indifferent, I pray that I am for the good but being human bad and indifferent are the sum of the package. If I can live a life that lets the least bit of the light of God's love peak out, I have a chance of living a good life and the assurance of heaven.

Al

 

[Karl Peters]

In the bible I am seeking Jesus in verses of faith and salvation, verses are both edifying and a trap. Used and understood correctly are beautiful teachers. Verses Taken out of context will find neither Jesus and faith and salvation.

Alfredthefifth comes from being the fifth generation of Afred. My dad the fourth passed on seven years ago and my son the sixth passed away in faith while fighting addiction four years ago next month. My choice of screen name was either my order the fifth or that I am now the only Alfred in my lineage. I am me for the good bad or indifferent, I pray that I am for the good but being human bad and indifferent are the sum of the package. If I can live a life that lets the least bit of the light of God's love peak out, I have a chance of living a good life and the assurance of heaven.

Al

Not according to the Bible!

According to the Bible the Word is near you, in your heart and and mouth. And that is the word of faith we are preaching!

Now the Bible is not always near you, but God is omni-present and Jesus (Who is the Word of God and God) said He would never leave you!

Now the Scriptures, which you are calling 'verses of faith' explain this to you, so they are worth reading and studying. Yet Jesus explained a couple of things to the Jews when He was in the flesh. He explained that they were searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of actually coming to Him. He also told them that if they did not believe the writings of Moses how would they hear from Him. Let me just give you a few of those verses, then I will give you a bit of testimony to help with understanding.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Jn 1;'1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Jn 5:39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Jn 5: 46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jesus Christ has always been the "Word of God" because He has always talk to men if men were willing to listen. He spoke to people like Abram and Moses, and Moses wanted people to hear from Him like he did. So, Moses explain that the word was near them way that then. Jesus later came in the flesh and explain the problem to the Jews who were supposed to be His people, but thought they studied the Scriptures they didn't actually believe what Moses had written, or they would have taken time to believe in the great I Am (Jesus Christ) and listen to Him as "The Word of God". Then those like John and Paul also tried to explain this to the people, just like Moses did. We need to understand that our faith in not in the Scriptures but is in a living and active being, Jesus Christ who to this day still is trying to get the people called by His name (Christians) to listen to Him. But because He speaks to us vis His Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit, it takes some faith to hear that small voice of His, which we find in our hearts and often even coming out of our mouth (because it is His spirit speak to our spirit. The things we pick up from spirit (good or evil) often tend to come put our mouths.

Now honestly, it is possible to hear from Him tell you even little things, like even when to turn to the right of the left. And He teaches us by talking to us even on these little things!

Is 30: 20,21 Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

Now He had me work in a Christian healing ministry for five years for Him. I didn't think I was very good with people, and told Him so, but He told me He wanted me in it because I listened to Him. It turns out to be massively important to be able to listen to Him in that ministry. People come in with assorts of problems and the only real way to know what to do is to keep listening and listening for the little things that He wants done. He will tell you if He wants you to lead them in forgiveness, or if they need to look for a vision from Him, and even what problem He wants us to pray for!

It was a healing ministry but most of the people coming in didn't even tell us about the physical problems they were having. I can't begin to tell you the number of times people came in and wanted us to pray for a friend of theirs, and the Lord would say something like, "Karl, they have a problem with their knee. Then I would ask them, "Is your knee giving you a problem" and they would tell us, "yes". So then we would ask them to tell us on a scale of 1-10 how bad the knee was hurting. And more times than not they would come back with something like, "It is really hurting me bad", and would give us a rating of 8, 9, or even 10. We would start praying for the knee and the pain would go away or almost completely go away. They would walk in with pain, not tell us, and walk out without pain and a hugh smile on their face. But it all comes down to actually listening to Him!! And so, you won't know what to do unless you understand that He is with you, and can be and wants to be inquired of!!

And again, like I say, you won't know until you learn to listen for His voice. It can be weird; I remember the time He told me that He want me to pray for a new set of clothes for the person you had come in. Frankly, the clothes he was wearing looked fine to me. So, I kind of apologized to the person and told him that I thought his clothes looked fine, but I also explained that I thought I heard the Lord tell me to pray for a new set of clothes for him. The man was blown away, and started telling me that the clothes he was wearing were not his. He explained that he was a homeless man, and someone had told me about the healing ministry and gave him some clothes to wear here. He badly needed some new clothes, but reading the verses in the Bible don't tell you that someone needs new clothes, they tell you that the Lord knows and He will talk to us if with believe.

Paul put it like this to the Galatians:

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Honestly, the one thing that really matters is taking the time to listen to the Lord, and that takes some faith that He is there and will talk to you via His Holy Spirit!!

Luke 10:42 but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

Martha had gone about doing alsort of good works around the house by leaning on her own understanding. Mary decided to just sit down and listen to the Lord. Mary did the "one thing" which is necessary - and you can do that also. That pastor should have told you to sit down and listen to the Teacher!! What is obvious is that he didn't he didn't do that or he would have advised you to sit down and listen to the Lord. Do is while reading the Scriptures, and He will point out things like the above. Do it while ministering to people. And please point people to Jesus Christ!! Adn the first person to point to Jesus Christ is always us!!

 

[Berserk]

Karl Peters:"Did your pastor tell you anything about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to what our Lord has to say to you about those verses????

First, it is not the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit sent by Him who guides you into all truth."
Second, how do you know your interpretation of Scripture is divinely guided? Put differently, if your interpretation was wrong, how would you ever find that out? A pastor who knows the biblical languages and the historical and cultural background of the text in question needs to be more authoritative than your subjective interpretation of what Jesus or another biblical writer is saying. This is a thread about what creates an honest spiritual quest and intellectual humility is needed to establish such integrity. The Book if Mormon ends by challenging readers to ask the Lord to show them if that book is true and millions of Mormons claim the Lord has told them the book is true. So there needs to some objective check on your interpretations of Scripture.

Now the Spirit can help you with the application of specific Scriptures to your own life. But that is different from claiming the Spirit told you what the texts actually mean in their context. Seminarians quickly learn the danger of committing the academic sin of paralellomania!

Karl Peters: "So why are our pastors not pointing us to our Teacher, Jesus Christ????"

Because God's Word commands submission to the church's teaching office.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Not according to the Bible!

According to the Bible the Word is near you, in your heart and and mouth. And that is the word of faith we are preaching!

Now the Bible is not always near you, but God is omni-present and Jesus (Who is the Word of God and God) said He would never leave you!

Now the Scriptures, which you are calling 'verses of faith' explain this to you, so they are worth reading and studying. Yet Jesus explained a couple of things to the Jews when He was in the flesh. He explained that they were searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of actually coming to Him. He also told them that if they did not believe the writings of Moses how would they hear from Him. Let me just give you a few of those verses, then I will give you a bit of testimony to help with understanding.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Jn 1;'1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Jn 5:39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Jn 5: 46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jesus Christ has always been the "Word of God" because He has always talk to men if men were willing to listen. He spoke to people like Abram and Moses, and Moses wanted people to hear from Him like he did. So, Moses explain that the word was near them way that then. Jesus later came in the flesh and explain the problem to the Jews who were supposed to be His people, but thought they studied the Scriptures they didn't actually believe what Moses had written, or they would have taken time to believe in the great I Am (Jesus Christ) and listen to Him as "The Word of God". Then those like John and Paul also tried to explain this to the people, just like Moses did. We need to understand that our faith in not in the Scriptures but is in a living and active being, Jesus Christ who to this day still is trying to get the people called by His name (Christians) to listen to Him. But because He speaks to us vis His Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit, it takes some faith to hear that small voice of His, which we find in our hearts and often even coming out of our mouth (because it is His spirit speak to our spirit. The things we pick up from spirit (good or evil) often tend to come put our mouths.

Now honestly, it is possible to hear from Him tell you even little things, like even when to turn to the right of the left. And He teaches us by talking to us even on these little things!

Is 30: 20,21 Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

Now He had me work in a Christian healing ministry for five years for Him. I didn't think I was very good with people, and told Him so, but He told me He wanted me in it because I listened to Him. It turns out to be massively important to be able to listen to Him in that ministry. People come in with assorts of problems and the only real way to know what to do is to keep listening and listening for the little things that He wants done. He will tell you if He wants you to lead them in forgiveness, or if they need to look for a vision from Him, and even what problem He wants us to pray for!

It was a healing ministry but most of the people coming in didn't even tell us about the physical problems they were having. I can't begin to tell you the number of times people came in and wanted us to pray for a friend of theirs, and the Lord would say something like, "Karl, they have a problem with their knee. Then I would ask them, "Is your knee giving you a problem" and they would tell us, "yes". So then we would ask them to tell us on a scale of 1-10 how bad the knee was hurting. And more times than not they would come back with something like, "It is really hurting me bad", and would give us a rating of 8, 9, or even 10. We would start praying for the knee and the pain would go away or almost completely go away. They would walk in with pain, not tell us, and walk out without pain and a hugh smile on their face. But it all comes down to actually listening to Him!! And so, you won't know what to do unless you understand that He is with you, and can be and wants to be inquired of!!

And again, like I say, you won't know until you learn to listen for His voice. It can be weird; I remember the time He told me that He want me to pray for a new set of clothes for the person you had come in. Frankly, the clothes he was wearing looked fine to me. So, I kind of apologized to the person and told him that I thought his clothes looked fine, but I also explained that I thought I heard the Lord tell me to pray for a new set of clothes for him. The man was blown away, and started telling me that the clothes he was wearing were not his. He explained that he was a homeless man, and someone had told me about the healing ministry and gave him some clothes to wear here. He badly needed some new clothes, but reading the verses in the Bible don't tell you that someone needs new clothes, they tell you that the Lord knows and He will talk to us if with believe.

Paul put it like this to the Galatians:

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Honestly, the one thing that really matters is taking the time to listen to the Lord, and that takes some faith that He is there and will talk to you via His Holy Spirit!!

Luke 10:42 but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

Martha had gone about doing alsort of good works around the house by leaning on her own understanding. Mary decided to just sit down and listen to the Lord. Mary did the "one thing" which is necessary - and you can do that also. That pastor should have told you to sit down and listen to the Teacher!! What is obvious is that he didn't he didn't do that or he would have advised you to sit down and listen to the Lord. Do is while reading the Scriptures, and He will point out things like the above. Do it while ministering to people. And please point people to Jesus Christ!! Adn the first person to point to Jesus Christ is always us!!

First God is in my heart. That is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I may misspeak if I say I am searching the scriptures in for Anything as those scriptures are in me. Yes I went to Sunday School but for 18 of my regular school mates Sunday School was a dumbed down version of our everyday school. In that school we had daily memory verses that we had to recite from memory by lunchtime to get lunch recess. I don’t often remember chapter and verse but I rarely miss words.

My searching the scriptures for exactness isn't a search in itself for God the way it comes out. It is the result of being badly burned by a false teacher that was good at taking several verses that support his version of truth. The Bible study of context of a verse done for several verse used in this way is very revealing. Doing this reveals untruth and for me that is everything.

I want to write a sermon doing the read everything around the verses gives me the concise context of what text is saying so I don't wonder away from the truth.

For as many stories that begin "here hold my beer!" There are as many that begin "I read it in a book!" My story of my new beginning comes from reading two books by Brother Andrew. The first GOD'S SMUGGLER talked about simply showing God's love. The second LIGHT FORCE held up a mirror for the Holy Spirit where how tentative a was after being burned, even burnt out by the false teaching.

My new beginning comes from the Holy Spirit revealing the hurt that made me tentative and saying let it go it is holding you down!

So I have both God and scriptures in my heart. My searching scriptures the way I do now is not in finding God but in being able to desern am I hearing true words and that eventually I will be able to write true words.

Now that I am letting go off hurt I am beginning again with a tool to reveal false teaching.

Al

 

[Karl Peters]

Karl Peters:"Did your pastor tell you anything about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to what our Lord has to say to you about those verses????

First, it is not the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit sent by Him who guides you into all truth."
Second, how do you know your interpretation of Scripture is divinely guided? Put differently, if your interpretation was wrong, how would you ever find that out? A pastor who knows the biblical languages and the historical and cultural background of the text in question needs to be more authoritative than your subjective interpretation of what Jesus or another biblical writer is saying. This is a thread about what creates an honest spiritual quest and intellectual humility is needed to establish such integrity. The Book if Mormon ends by challenging readers to ask the Lord to show them if that book is true and millions of Mormons claim the Lord has told them the book is true. So there needs to some objective check on your interpretations of Scripture.

Now the Spirit can help you with the application of specific Scriptures to your own life. But that is different from claiming the Spirit told you what the texts actually mean in their context. Seminarians quickly learn the danger of committing the academic sin of paralellomania!

Karl Peters: "So why are our pastors not pointing us to our Teacher, Jesus Christ????"

Because God's Word commands submission to the church's teaching office.

I was a church one day, helping in the bookstore. The Lord had given me the responsibility of taking care of the used book rack the store had. A man came in and was telling me about our pastor's new study that he was doing at 5 am, for those wanting to get up early before work. The man was telling I should go there. He said, "You have to listen to our pastor". I smiled, thinking who I wind up hearing him most Sundays. Then the Lord spoke to me boldly saying, "Karl - if they tell you that you have to listen to their pastor then tell them that they have to listen to your Pastor!"

John 10: 1-4 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. “But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. “To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. “When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

So if you don't know Jesus Christ as your pastor, then whose sheep are you??

The next thing it seem you need to understand about it the Holy Spirit - who He is and what He does - and who Jesus Christ is!

Jesus Christ is the Word of God!! [Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.]

The Holy Spirit is not the Word of God, the Scriptures are not the Word of God - Jesus is!! Jesus Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords!! That is what is heard from the Holy Spirit - that Jesus Christ is Lord!!

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit

What you apparently fail to understand is that the Words of God belong to and come from Jesus Christ!!! The words of God don't belong to the Holy Spirit, but rather the Holy Spirit takes the words of God that He gets from our Lord Jesus Christ and speaks them to you!

Jn 16:15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The Holy Spirit does not speak on His own initiative, but as He hears He speaks!!

Jn 16: 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

The Holy Spirit acts like a living telephone line to Jesus Christ!! The Holy Spirit only speaks what He picks up from our Lord Jesus Christ! If my brother calls me on the phone, I don't say I am talking to the phone, but rather I say that I am speaking to my brother. In the same way we might say we are in the Spirit, but we don't say we are talking to the Holy Spirit. For example - go to the book Revelation - you will find over and over "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ - but try and find one single word in the book of Revelation credited with being from the Holy Spirit! You will find that John was taken up in the Spirit but will not find a word credited to being said by the Holy Spirit. So, the Holy Spirit does guide us into all Truth, but Jesus Christ is the Truth we hear from personally when in the Spirit! That is because the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own initiative and the word you get from Him are the Word from our Lord Jesus Christ, which the Holy Spirit make you fully aware of!!!

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit

So why would a person be into glorifying the Holy Spirit and into proclaiming the Bible instead of Jesus Christ as the Word of God?

He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

There is a problem discussed many times in the Bible. The problem is that people don't understand that the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is near us, in our hearts and in our mouths. People often say in their hearts that Jesus Christ is either dead or in a far-off place called heaven. If that problem comes up, the person will start thinking of the Sacred Writings as the Word of God instead of knowing Jesus Christ personally as the Word of God, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. When that happens, they start thinking of a people in their church as their pastor, instead of thinking of Jesus Christ as their Pastor, simply because they don't hear His voice. They don't know Jesus Christ as their Lord!

Now He, my Lord Jesus Christ, has me go to a Christian church. And yes there is a man, and more than one man, who is call pastor at that church. And yes, I want to respect the men who are acting as pastors at my church, but honestly, they did not tell me to work in the bookstore, or the healing ministry, or the hospital visitation ministry, or vacuum the floors, or the prayer room ministry He currently has me in! Those instructions came from my Lord, Jesus Christ!! I follow Him because I hear His voice talking to me personally!

Yet I find people at that church who do things but they don't ever say their Lord Jesus Christ is telling them to do the things they do!! They don't seem to actually make attempts to seek Jesus Christ, but rather lean on their own understanding. Some read the Bible, but they don't actually seek the Lord for understanding. The lines upon lines of text in the Bible becomes the Word of God to them, because they simply don't know Jesus Christ as the Lord who gives them instructions. They say His name, and hopefully that will get them to heaven someday, but do they actually call on Him by using His name and then trying to listen to Him speaking to them via His Holy Spirit who only givers the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ? So they don't listen to the Lord of lords, but they read and study the line upon line of text in an order on order type of way, and they get a little hear and a little there, but they are not and talking with the living Word of God, Jesus Christ every day called Today! They don't actually know Him!!!

Sady, on that day He is going to tell many that He never knew them!! He doesn't lie! If they had be talking and walking with Him, He knew them. So, they were not walking and talking with Him! Their faith is in their own understanding of the Bible, and in their own good works

He doesn't lie! We need to help them, don't we? Don't we need to proclaim that Jesus Christ is not dead or in a far-off place called heaven, and the we can hear the words of God that belong to Him (because the Father gave Him all things). His words are near us. They are found in our hearts and mouth, not in a book!! That is the Word of God we are supposed to be preaching!!

Rom 10: 6 -10 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

 

[Karl Peters]

First God is in my heart. That is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I may misspeak if I say I am searching the scriptures in for Anything as those scriptures are in me. Yes I went to Sunday School but for 18 of my regular school mates Sunday School was a dumbed down version of our everyday school. In that school we had daily memory verses that we had to recite from memory by lunchtime to get lunch recess. I don’t often remember chapter and verse but I rarely miss words.

My searching the scriptures for exactness isn't a search in itself for God the way it comes out. It is the result of being badly burned by a false teacher that was good at taking several verses that support his version of truth. The Bible study of context of a verse done for several verse used in this way is very revealing. Doing this reveals untruth and for me that is everything.

I want to write a sermon doing the read everything around the verses gives me the concise context of what text is saying so I don't wonder away from the truth.

For as many stories that begin "here hold my beer!" There are as many that begin "I read it in a book!" My story of my new beginning comes from reading two books by Brother Andrew. The first GOD'S SMUGGLER talked about simply showing God's love. The second LIGHT FORCE held up a mirror for the Holy Spirit where how tentative a was after being burned, even burnt out by the false teaching.

My new beginning comes from the Holy Spirit revealing the hurt that made me tentative and saying let it go it is holding you down!

So I have both God and scriptures in my heart. My searching scriptures the way I do now is not in finding God but in being able to desern am I hearing true words and that eventually I will be able to write true words.

Now that I am letting go off hurt I am beginning again with a tool to reveal false teaching.

Al

We people are easily hurt and often reject people. In the Bible we read that Jesus Christ was hurt and He was rejected!!

What we really need to ask ourselves is: Are we hurting Jesus Christ and are we rejecting Him?

The fact is that we all do that!! That is the whole message in the Bible - that Jesus the Christ, whose name is and always has been "The Word of God" was always trying to help us people by talking with us. But we reject that idea of listening to Him, and in so doing we hurt Him.

Memorizing Scripture is not putting the Scriptures in your heart but is putting it in your brain. If we know Jesus Christ and let Him into our lives He speaks to our hearts via His Holy Spirit. That doesn't mean He actually puts His words into that organ we call our heart. It means we hear His words that come through His Holy Spirit in our spirit. So unlike our brain, which is an organ we have that has memories from electronic pathways created, maybe something we can compare to a computer's memories, we have a person speaking to us not something memorized!

So we hear a person, Jesus Christ, who is not a memory created but a being who thinks and responds. He is the being through whom all things were created, and not a record of things written down, like a Bible, or like a memory we record in our heads. He is the living and active Word of God, not a storage bit of information!!

Reproof sometimes hurts our pride, but He is going to reprove you if you choose to actually seek Him and listen to Him.

Rev 3:19-22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

So hearing from Him is not a matter of memorizing something or going to a written record, it is a matter of opening up to what He has to say to you!!

The Lord once had me open up a Christian bookstore for Him. And I had only know Him a couple of years when I did that. It was a really slow store, but He had me read many books there. He would tell me which ones to read! It wasn't a memory thing, but He would say, "Karl, I want you to read a book."

"What book?" I would ask.

He would usually say something like, "It is over here." And my eyes would instant move to a certain location. One of the books He had me read and keep in stock was "GOD'S SMUGGLER", by Brother Andrew. I loved it. I love it because Brother Andrew would tell how he often would hear the Lord telling Him specific things to do. Brother Andrew heard the Lord speaking to Him, followed the instruction no matter how crazy and God watched over Him. How do we miss the fact that books like the Bible and like "God's Smuggler" keep telling us about actually listening to a person, our Lord Jesus Christ? It is not just the Bible in which this is explained!! There are still people giving testimonies as to the living and active Word of God. Yes, God used Brother Andrew to smuggle in Bibles to dangerous areas behind the iron curtain, But he was God's Smuggler because He listen to the Lord and did what was asked of Him!! He didn't get the instructions to smuggle in Bibles from the Bible but from the Lord!