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Mungo

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I simply disagree with you. And the verses that I referenced do substantiate my position; whether you are willing to receive their testimony or not.



As concerning the essentials of the faith, I do not see these denominations teaching contradictory doctrines.

Different Christians cannot even agree what doctrines are the "essentials of the faith". We are not arguing on this forum about trivia (well some are) but on vital doctrines.


If I have an unction from the holy one, then I know all things; that is, I know the difference between the truth and a lie when I hear it.
So you do believe you are infallible.

Where does scripture say you and everyone else who thinks they have "an unction from the holy one" is infallible.

Why do these infallible people disagree on basic doctrines?


However, I am being transformed by the renewing of my mind; and therefore I may not have an accurate understanding on some things that are taught in holy scripture. The Holy Spirit is guiding me into all truth, as He does with everyone who has the Holy Spirit. This does not preclude that everyone who has the Holy Spirit will necessarily have a full knowledge of sound doctrine from the moment they are saved. People grow into a proper understanding of what the holy scriptures teach us. The longer I therefore continue in studying the word to shew myself approved, the more accurate my doctrine will be.

The problem with that belief is that it is not scripturally sound and thousands of other Christians believe the Holy Spirit is leading them to different truths.
 

justbyfaith

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Show me how.

Did I not simply say that we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds?

Is that not the epitome of what I said?

See Romans 12:1-2.

And, the Holy Spirit guiding us into all truth, is that not substantiated by John 16:13?
 

Mungo

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Did I not simply say that we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds?

Is that not the epitome of what I said?

See Romans 12:1-2.

And, the Holy Spirit guiding us into all truth, is that not substantiated by John 16:13?

Right, so your claim that Rom 12:1-2 substantiated what you claimed was not true because now you say
"the Holy Spirit guiding us into all truth, is that not substantiated by John 16:13?"
But even that doesn't substantiate that claim because Jesus made that promise to the apostles, the leaders of the Church.
It wasn't made to everyone and the history of division and contradictory doctrines shows that.
 

theefaith

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I've had small groups over the years meeting in our home for the past 30 plus years. We open scripture and see what it says regarding issues that there might be differences of opinion on. Also there are primary or fundamental doctrines that are essential or core regarding salvation and others that are non essential as in not salvific in nature. So I practice the following:

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity.

hope this helps !!!

no the church is visible and invisible or in you physical and spiritual communion in Christ in Union with the apostles!

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(The apostles)

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

ChristisGod

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no the church is visible and invisible or in you physical and spiritual communion in Christ in Union with the apostles!

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(The apostles)

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
and how are those passages in opposition to my post ?

can you clarify in your own words ?

Here is the " CONTEXT " of my post


↑Marymog said
Thank you Christophany.

I agree with you that the people make up the church-the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27). Scripture also says "that there should be no division in the body".

Soooooo when the body of Christ (the church) meets in a house what are we to do when they disagree (have division) with the body of Christ that meets in the coffee shop? Or when the park people have division with the backyard people on what it takes to obtain salvation?

Curious Mary


My response to Mary below:

I've had small groups over the years meeting in our home for the past 30 plus years. We open scripture and see what it says regarding issues that there might be differences of opinion on. Also there are primary or fundamental doctrines that are essential or core regarding salvation and others that are non essential as in not salvific in nature. So I practice the following:

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity.

hope this helps !!!
 

theefaith

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No, I "allege" that Jesus said that to everyone who is born again of the Holy Spirit.

Matt 22:14



2 Peter 1:3-4, Hebrews 11:33, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22.



I'm saying that this is inevitable...everyone interprets things through the filter of their own mind...you cannot change that.

So if that is relativism then I suppose that relativism cannot be avoided...because everyone has a mind.

Personally, I think that it is better to study the Bible itself and filter that through my mind than to study what men have said about the Bible...which they have filtered through their minds. I would rather have the word of God than the words of men.



Inasmuch as that building contains a gathering of people who believe in Jesus.



"not every person in the building can have the truth"...

do you concede that this is also true within the Catholic Church?



It has everything to do with it. Because we determine what is false doctrine by comparing it to the sound doctrine found within the holy scriptures. I think that you agree with me that the holy scriptures are the word of the Lord; because they were written by men of the church; and to you the church has all authority.

So my question to you is, what happens when the holy scriptures (written by men of the church) contradict things that are taught by the Catholic Church?

Are the men who wrote the holy scriptures no longer considered to be authoritative as men of the church?



If they agreed with everything Catholic, they wouldn't be Protestants.




I'm certain that among certain people there will be disagreement as to what is an essential or core doctrine regarding salvation. However, if we take the scripture at face value, we can determine from the holy scriptures that at least two to four things are essential:

1) The Deity of Christ (John 8:24).

2) That Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

3) That Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Son of God (1 John 4:15, Isaiah 9:6).

4) That salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I believe that Protestants are in agreement concerning these essentials; if anyone is not in agreement with these and yet tries to pass themselves off as Christian, they are considered to be a cult by mainstream Protestantism.

So, in answer to your question, there is an organization within Protestantism just as there is organization within the Catholic Church.

It is not organization that we are against, but we are definitely against certain false doctrines that are purported by the Catholic Church....and we know that they are false because we are a thinking people and check what is preached by the Catholic Church by the holy scriptures...and we find that when we put Catholic doctrine to the Berean test, it is found wanting.



mk 4: 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

matt 22:14
Eph 2:20
 

justbyfaith

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But even that doesn't substantiate that claim because Jesus made that promise to the apostles, the leaders of the Church.

That is your interpretation.

The way I see it, John 16:13 is given to all who would be given the Holy Spirit...it is saying that it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide those who have Him into all truth.

It is clearly the proper interpretation.

For why would the Holy Spirit not perform His function in the people to whom He has been given?

There are also people in the catholic Church who believe that they have this promise via succession but they have never believed in Jesus. How then can they have the Holy Spirit? And if they do not have the Holy Spirit, how can he guide them into all truth?

But for those who do have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives (see Galatians 3:14, 2 Timothy 1:14), He cannot but perform His function of guiding them into all truth.

It is His function in the life of the believer.

If anyone has the Holy Spirit, He will guide them into all truth. Because that is His function in the life of the believer.

Got it? Good.
 

GISMYS_7

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Try to think just a little!!! Jesus made that promise to those born again believers if NOT to them then there is no reason to include that scripture in the ABible.
 

theefaith

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That is your interpretation.

The way I see it, John 16:13 is given to all who would be given the Holy Spirit...it is saying that it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide those who have Him into all truth.

It is clearly the proper interpretation.

For why would the Holy Spirit not perform His function in the people to whom He has been given?

There are also people in the catholic Church who believe that they have this promise via succession but they have never believed in Jesus. How then can they have the Holy Spirit? And if they do not have the Holy Spirit, how can he guide them into all truth?

But for those who do have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives (see Galatians 3:14, 2 Timothy 1:14), He cannot but perform His function of guiding them into all truth.

It is His function in the life of the believer.

If anyone has the Holy Spirit, He will guide them into all truth. Because that is His function in the life of the believer.

Got it? Good.

the HS may lead you into truth ask and you shall receive but the promise and guarantee is to Peter the apostles and their successors then they are to teach the people

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
 

Marymog

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I think that when Paul says "we" in 1 Corinthians 2:13 he is speaking of those who penned the holy scriptures.

Which is not to say that there is another silent "we" inherent in the scripture...the "we" of those who will be comparing scripture with scripture in order to come up with the teaching of the Holy Ghost.
Hi JBF,

Thank you for the clarification.

The only Holy Scripture (letters) that were penned BEFORE Paul wrote Corinthians were letters from Paul himself except for possibly the book of James. Soooooo when you suggest that the "we" he is talking about in his letter are "those who penned the holy scriptures" then that means he is talking about himself since no other "holy scripture" had been written by anyone other than him at that time (around 55AD)!!! Soooo that theory doesn't work.

Suggesting that the "we" in that passage is "those who will be comparing scripture with scripture in order to come up with the teaching of the Holy Ghost" theory doesn't work either. Here is what that passage means by putting that theory into action: And we, all Christians from now until eternity that compare scripture with scripture, speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual,...

Is it possible that when Paul says "we" he is referring back to the greeting in his letter to the Church at Cornith when he mentions Sosthenes?

Bible study Mary
 

justbyfaith

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the HS may lead you into truth ask and you shall receive but the promise and guarantee is to Peter the apostles and their successors then they are to teach the people

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

The successors of the apostles are those who would believe in Jesus through their words...John 17:20...not necessarily those who would be designated authority by man.
 

BloodBought 1953

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ONLY GOD can indeed change the inward parts of a man . Its called for ye are saved by Grace through faith in JESUS CHRIST .
Cause it was God himself that even drew us to Christ and the new man with new desires was born .
Whole new life , whole new change , whole new direction . The SPIRIT is the guide , but beware of the flesh .
For deadly evils still remain . OH but let all follow the SPIRIT . For in Christ , HE is able to succor , give aide
to any and all who are tempted . IN HIM we have the power to overcome the evil within our own flesh .
For the blood of Christ cleanses to even the purifying of the conscious .
Let all who name the name of Christ depart from inquity and BB, BB , heed not francis . Remember that well .


Lol.....Francis ? Don’t get me started! Good to see you again Frienduff!
 

theefaith

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The successors of the apostles are those who would believe in Jesus through their words...John 17:20...not necessarily those who would be designated authority by man.
Acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

your spiritual anarchy is not biblical eph 4:5 one Lord one faith one baptism
 

Marymog

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I think satan must love the idea that some think God's Word is to and for others but NOT me!!! Dream on until you feel the flames!!
Satan does love that idea.

"Do some more Bible study and pray for some wisdom and understanding!!!"
 

justbyfaith

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Acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

your spiritual anarchy is not biblical eph 4:5 one Lord one faith one baptism

yet, it appears to many that Paul was the twelfth apostle.