"Husband of one wife"

[A_Man]

I do not see how I Corinthians 14:34-35 would be a reason for men and women to sit separately.

CharismaticLady are you talking about Christian Churches? Biblical era churches? The Bible refers to Churches as groups and congregations, not buildings. The Bible does not discuss the construction of Christian churches, history does not see it either.

The discussion of where they met is a good topic. Home churches were popular and services many times revolved around a meal. Paul addressed this. In those circumstances women organized the meeting and men spoke at the table. Gentile Christians were not meeting in the Temple or synagogues.....not circumcised. Now whether women sat at the table with men is a question, one that the Bible does not address. Some could argue that women and children did not sit at the table because that custom can be seen into the late 1800's at even regular meals...in some places. Not out west....the family sat around the table.

1800's? Where? Europe? That's a long time later. I don't know if men and women generally ate at the same table. A woman did weep at Jesus' feet though.

I hear back then when an honored celebrity guest would come to someone's home, people from the community could come sit in the home, even if they did not partake of the meal. The table would have had much shorter legs than what we think of, with those eating reclining and leaning on the left elbow, eating with the right hand (at least for those of high status at the meal). This would explain why John would lean over on Jesus chest, meaning he was seated to the right of Jesus on this occasion. He was probably very happy with this position-- on the right hand of the king, come to think of it. I wonder if his brother managed to secure a place on the left. Peter probably was not there since he had John ask Jesus a question about who would betray him.

This is an interesting article: https://www.hadar.org/sites/default/files/u259/RtT - Chapter Five.pdf

I Corinthians 10 does mention the table of the Lord in contrast with the table of devils. If they had 80 or 300 or whatever people in the home of 'Gaius mine host and of the whole church' they could have blessed before the meal at a table and eaten in whatever square footage in the courtyard or house each individual managed to secure. I am just imagining this because I can imagine it would be difficult to have that many tables or that large of a table in one location.

Jewish Christians is a whole different issue...would Jewish Christians meet in the Temple or Jewish synagogue? Good topic.

They met from house to house and on Solomon's porch in the temple if we are talking about the Jerusalem church. James 2:2 refers to a 'synagogue', and there is some evidence for a first century structure built like a synagogue with the Torah niche facing the church of the holy sepulchre made out of the same type of stones as the western wall believed to be from from the late first century at the upper room site that had Christian graffito.

 

[Grailhunter]

1st century congregations met in homes. The first "church building" had been a pagan temple when paganism was against the state law.

I get that, converting pagan temples did occur after Constantine...325 era....
Catacomb churches are interesting.
So what do you think it was like in the house churches, with women?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I get that, converting pagan temples did occur after Constantine...325 era....
Catacomb churches are interesting.
So what do you think it was like in the house churches, with women?

Jewish men were socially educated; women were not.

It may have been different in Greek nations for women. Greek women may have learned how to read. But I don't know the social history of them to be sure. I never went to a school that taught evolution or mythical gods.

 

[Grailhunter]

I do not see how I Corinthians 14:34-35 would be a reason for men and women to sit separately.



1800's? Where? Europe? That's a long time later. I don't know if men and women generally ate at the same table. A woman did weep at Jesus' feet though.

I hear back then when an honored celebrity guest would come to someone's home, people from the community could come sit in the home, even if they did not partake of the meal. The table would have had much shorter legs than what we think of, with those eating reclining and leaning on the left elbow, eating with the right hand (at least for those of high status at the meal). This would explain why John would lean over on Jesus chest, meaning he was seated to the right of Jesus on this occasion. He was probably very happy with this position-- on the right hand of the king, come to think of it. I wonder if his brother managed to secure a place on the left. Peter probably was not there since he had John ask Jesus a question about who would betray him.

This is an interesting article: https://www.hadar.org/sites/default/files/u259/RtT - Chapter Five.pdf

I Corinthians 10 does mention the table of the Lord in contrast with the table of devils. If they had 80 or 300 or whatever people in the home of 'Gaius mine host and of the whole church' they could have blessed before the meal at a table and eaten in whatever square footage in the courtyard or house each individual managed to secure. I am just imagining this because I can imagine it would be difficult to have that many tables or that large of a table in one location.



They met from house to house and on Solomon's porch in the temple if we are talking about the Jerusalem church. James 2:2 refers to a 'synagogue', and there is some evidence for a first century structure built like a synagogue with the Torah niche facing the church of the holy sepulchre made out of the same type of stones as the western wall believed to be from from the late first century at the upper room site that had Christian graffito.

That is point how did the meetings go...Two distinct groups...Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians that practiced their religions differently.....No Gentiles Christians in Temples.

You are right about leaning....for two reasons....one, chairs were not common....two, it was a belief that eating food and letting it drop straight to the stomach was not good, so they generally laid on their sides when they ate.

 

[A_Man]

That is point how did the meetings go...Two distinct groups...Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians that practiced their religions differently.....No Gentiles Christians in Temples.

The Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus quoted the scriptures

You are right about leaning....for two reasons....one, chairs were not common....two, it was a belief that eating food and letting it drop straight to the stomach was not good, so they generally laid on their sides when they ate.[/QUOTE]

That is point how did the meetings go...Two distinct groups...Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians that practiced their religions differently.....No Gentiles Christians in Temples.-

The money changers and merchants set up in the temple, I hear in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus said "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the Court of the Gentiles. I read that Solomon's Porch connected to the Court of the Gentiles, but I do not know if it was a part of it or if Gentiles were allowed on it. It is possible that the church stopped meeting there before the Gentile converts came in ,but I do not know that.

You are right about leaning....for two reasons....one, chairs were not common....two, it was a belief that eating food and letting it drop straight to the stomach was not good, so they generally laid on their sides when they ate.

The article I posted said that women may have sat. I wonder if that was a Greek thing.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus quoted the scriptures

You are right about leaning....for two reasons....one, chairs were not common....two, it was a belief that eating food and letting it drop straight to the stomach was not good, so they generally laid on their sides when they ate.

The money changers and merchants set up in the temple, I hear in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus said "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the Court of the Gentiles. I read that Solomon's Porch connected to the Court of the Gentiles, but I do not know if it was a part of it or if Gentiles were allowed on it. It is possible that the church stopped meeting there before the Gentile converts came in ,but I do not know that.



The article I posted said that women may have sat. I wonder if that was a Greek thing.[

The Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus quoted the scriptures

You are right about leaning....for two reasons....one, chairs were not common....two, it was a belief that eating food and letting it drop straight to the stomach was not good, so they generally laid on their sides when they ate.

The money changers and merchants set up in the temple, I hear in the court of the Gentiles. Jesus said "It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the Court of the Gentiles. I read that Solomon's Porch connected to the Court of the Gentiles, but I do not know if it was a part of it or if Gentiles were allowed on it. It is possible that the church stopped meeting there before the Gentile converts came in ,but I do not know that.



The article I posted said that women may have sat. I wonder if that was a Greek thing.[/QUOTE]The Gentiles were supposed to be allowed in the court of the Gentiles.

Court of Gentiles...built in the outer court yard by command of Herod.... dangerous place to be....easy to violate the Temple laws.....it was one of the few offense that Rome allowed the Jews to execute people for, even Romans. But the uncircumcised could gather there at their own risk.

Stories of Solomon's Porch are mentioned more in literature than the Temple....still outer court, some say the east side. 1st and 2nd Temple. Another gathering place.

Either way if you referring to Jewish and Gentiles Christian gatherings, you might look at Josephus. As far as religious beliefs, the Jewish Christians were juggling a form of Judaism and Christianity all at once. Holidays, Laws, and culture...how they were doing that is only speculated.

 

[A_Man]

Gentile God-fearers also listened to Torah in the synagogue without making the final 'cut' to join Judaism. They may have sat outside a wall and listened outside, something that resembled the temple.

If I am not mistaken, the court of the Gentiles was an extra wall outside of the temple where only the circumcised men were allowed to enter.

 

[A_Man]

Grailhunter,

I was just wondering what your beliefs are about the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter,

I was just wondering what your beliefs are about the resurrection of Christ.

As in?

 

[A_Man]

As in?

Do you believe it happened?

 

[101G]

Paul writes about women prophesying in I Corinthians 11. the idea that women might have been able to prophesy in the church meeting is not new. St. john Chrysostom seems to allow for that in his commentary on the passage. But he also seems to have had little experience with the actual phenomenon that Paul describes.


But, be that as it may, I wonder if the Greek there for 'ask their own husbands at home' could refer to asking fathers as well as husbands. The word could be translated 'men' as well. Does 'idios' in 'tous idios andras' make 'andras' mean husbands rather than just man? That is something I would want to ask someone who had a really strong feel for the language who wasn't just tied to surfae tools like Strong's concordance. I used to now someone I asked questions like that who used to chair a Classics department, but he passed away.

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, yes, women did prophesying in the Church, because God ORDAINED prophets to speak in the church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the word "SET" here is the Greek word,
G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture. KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down

we can see it use in 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

so women have a RIGHT by God, (as prophets), to Speak in the churches. but at 1 Corinthians 14:34, the apostle was not even addressing the women in the church, but the husbands of the women who spoke in church. listen, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." here the apostle zero in on the HUSBAND faults for they did not "TEACH" their wives the proper word and way to speak in the church. hence this answer another verse, 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.". here it is the HUSBAND responsibility at HOME to teach his wife the things of God. how do we know that this is speaking of "wives" and not women in general? because verse 15 gives us the answer. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
the only woman who suppose to be having children is a MARRIED one...meaning a wife. hence the reason why the apostle back in 1 Corinthians 14:35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

definition time: the word woman in both 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34 is the Greek word,
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

now if the apostle by the Holy Spirit would have used the Greek word,
G2338 θήλυς thelus (thee'-lïs) adj.
female.
[from thele (the nipple)]
KJV: female, woman

THEN WE ALL COULD PACK OUR BAGS AND GO HOME. because that would have covered all and every women including wives.
but thanks be to God he's a wise God, and he gave the apostle the truth,
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you believe it happened?

Of course.