I am stumped. Cannot answer friend's questions

[justaname]

The majority of the argument is based upon this statement, "Look, it all comes down to this; god knew EVEN AS HE CREATED THE EARTH and blew life into Adam that he and Eve were going to fail and that the result would be pain and suffering and damnation of billions of people over the coming millennia."

Here then is how I respond to these type of arguments.

God in His omniscience and omnipotence has/had the ability to view every possible case scenario for creation. God decided to pick our current reality, which coincidentally happened to include us. Perhaps being grateful is a better response than criticism. I am confident God chose the best case scenario for His creation, and His plan of salvation. All things work to the good of those who love Him.

To speak more directly to the criticism, God desires all to come to repentance and that none should perish. {2Peter 3:9, 1Timothy 2:4} Yet God is just, as to which I am thankful. We as humans punish murderers even to the point of capitol punishment. God is glorified by those He chooses to show mercy to as well as those who are damned.

As to the billions of damned people, that is speculation. Truly we do not know the fate of anyone bar:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Who can say who is not written in the Book of Life besides God?

Finally we are only able to make finite decisions and conclusions with our limited understandings and knowledge. Our thoughts are not His thoughts...so who are we to look to the Sovereign and judge?

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

I agree with everything you said except "those who are damned." Hopefully this is not a reference to Calvin's doomed from the womb.

 

[justaname]

I agree with everything you said except "those who are damned." Hopefully this is not a reference to Calvin's doomed from the womb.

I appreciate your response...

No it was not a reference to Calvin. Let me clarify for you.
Easily one can see how God is glorified by those He shows mercy to. Yet God is also glorified by those He chooses not to give mercy. In this we know for sure the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are not given mercy. By this God's justice is shown and proven, thereby He is glorified.

Also let me expand a bit on the OP...

Think on this fashion, how can God show His mercy if He never created reality in the manner He did? How could we know about God's unlimited love if we never had a point of reference to refer to? In other words, by God's choice in creation we are able to see many facets of His nature we would not otherwise be able to see.

We are a world that is fallen into rebellion, yet God chooses to love us anyways. So much so that He sent His only begotten Son to redeem us. Who is it God is purchasing us from? The answer is our selves, our rebellious selves. We would never know the depths of God's love without the reality of our personal rebellion. Yes God could have created a complete utopia, and He has, yet this is not it, it is the world to come. With the creation of this world and our suffering through it we have a better understanding of the value of the world to come.

 

[aspen]

Nice words justaname

 

[StanJ]

[SIZE=medium]"Look, it all comes down to this; god knew EVEN AS HE CREATED THE EARTH and blew life into Adam that he and Eve were going to fail and that the result would be pain and suffering and damnation of billions of people over the coming millennia. God knew, even as he created the world that billions would be born destined for hell because they would never learn who he is. Billions. [/SIZE]

This is the same old tired excuse that the devil has used from the beginning and is based on EQUIVOCATION.
God's foreknowledge has never influenced His will in doing what He wanted to do and knew would be good. Gen 1:10, 12, 18, 21, 25 & 31
Free will is sacrosanct to God and most humans. Some deny we have it but their denial does not negate that reality. Unbelievers look at God with a prideful and unrepentant mind/spirit. They look for excuses to not submit to God and ask Jesus to be their savior. As God is the only one that draws us to Jesus, these people will either respond positively to God's drawing, or will end up like the rich man in Luke 16:22-24. Note the moral of this story in v31.

 

[Raeneske]

Bible thumpers are such hypocrites. They condemn others for harboring
thoughts about God that they themselves harbor; but are too chicken to admit.

Jesus admired very few people; but one that he admired was outstanding.

"Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite
indeed, in whom is no guile." (John 1:47)

Webster's defines "guile" as the use of clever and usually dishonest methods.
In other words: Nathaniel was a true man of integrity. He would never stoop
to hiding his true feelings behind a wall of Bible verses. Don't see that degree
of honesty very often among Bible thumpers.

FYI: one of the seven things that God abhors is a liar. (Prv 6:16-19)

Buen Camino
/

First, everyone has bad thoughts. Satan puts bad thoughts into everyone's minds. The immediate thought is not sin if it is immediately repulsed. You ever find yourself thinking something and then going wait, what? "I love cake" -- but you actually hate cake. To sit and dwell upon a thought is the problem. That proves that if you had the chance to do so, you would do such a thing. This is why sin starts in the heart. If you sit and dwell upon cursing out God, you would do so outside of your mind. Do Christians have bad thoughts? Yes. And most unfortunately, some have some very hateful thoughts, even against God. But any true and striving Christian will feel sorry for those thoughts, and will repent. They will even make it a point to never do that again. These could honestly answer you, yes I have had a bad thought about God. But these could also honestly answer you -- and I am striving to never do it again. These could answer you, it's been days, weeks, months, years, since I've let Satan drag me down to such a spot.

Christians, true ones, do not turn around and curse God on the spot. They do not curse Him when a loved one dies, when they lose their jobs, when a loved one becomes sick, etc. Do they struggle? Who doesn't? But true Christians have that perfect peace that comes from Christ when bad things happen. "This hurts... but Christ will get me through it."

The majority of this planet are lost souls. You should focus on finding the real Christians, especially if you honestly care about meeting Christ. Do not focus on the hypocrites. Focus on finding those that can be described in the Bible, as loving, kind, and yes even without guile.

Revelation 14:1, 5 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

These kind ones, though they may not agree with the lost about things (for example, homosexuality), will be the examples of Christ. They are reflections of the Bible, the Word of God. You are seeing misrepresentations of the Bible. The Bible does say homosexuality is wrong, but it does not tell us to have signs that say God hates you know what. They may believe the right doctrine, but that is not a Christian -- and if it is, they are in the wrong, and our Father will reveal to them their error. If they refuse to see that error, then they are held accountable.

Know that you too will be judged. Every single one of us will be. We will have to give an account. Search for the true Christians. And do not give up searching. You will see one. The Bible says by their fruits you will know them. Just because they make such a proclamation, that they are Christian, doesn't mean they are one. Even if you disagree with their doctrine, it is by their actions, mannerisms, tone of voice, deeds, etc. that you will spot a true Christian.

Last thing -- Don't write off a Christian because of one, or two, or even three mistakes. It takes time to be a fruit inspector. Be patient... if you are honest, God will help you see a true Christian, so that you can get a better view of Christ.

 

[Suhar]

He asked "How is your behavior 'inexcusable' if you do not know who God is? If god allowed you to be born this way, with this nature, why then can he criticize you for it?

[SIZE=medium]Satan’s modus operandi[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] The tool with which Satan controls humans. He does not have to give something to control a person, he just has to stop giving something he already does.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Just that simple![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]All the days of your life one experiences oppression, depression, dissatisfaction.... where does it all come from? It comes from Satan. Then one comes across some kind of sin, sinful behavior and... wow! …all that pressure is momentarily lifted. Person feels awesome, released and starts thinking ... it feels so awesome, and natural, I must be "born this way!" Deeper and deeper into the sin he goes chasing that naturally free feeling which now comes at the higher and higher price, of more and more heavily sinful behavior.

[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]One can find another "thing", another behavior, another sin that makes you feel good. Satan gladly trades one sin for another, only God truly sets free.[/SIZE]