I don't think Predestination means Salvation

[Taken]

Post 104 answers you fully.

Nope Your post # 104 is merely full of your accusations and claims that Scripture says what it clearly Does not Say.

Men born of God CAN NOT SIN...1 John 3:9
IF YOU SIN DAILY...(AS YOU CLAIM)....
Thanks for sharing....always good to KNOW who my Spiritual brethren ARE and ARE NOT!

 

[Iconoclast]

Nope Your post # 104 is merely full of your accusations and claims that Scripture says what it clearly Does not Say.

Men born of God CAN NOT SIN...1 John 3:9
IF YOU SIN DAILY...(AS YOU CLAIM)....
Thanks for sharing....always good to KNOW who my Spiritual brethren ARE and ARE NOT!

Yes...good to know who ignores what Scriptures actually teach,lol
You see the teaching, you cannot answer it, so you pretend it does not teach what it really does....got it!

 

[Taken]

Yes...good to know who ignores what Scriptures actually teach,lol
You see the teaching, you cannot answer it, so you pretend it does not teach what it really does....got it!

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I trust and believe that is True.
If you do not believe that is True, it doesn't effect me.

 

[ChristisGod]

Can you refute my reasoning?

With scripture?

Easily

Romans 8:29-30
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Romans 9:22-23
"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory"

Ephesians 1:3-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved."

1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"


2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


John 17:9
"I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours."

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." -


Jude 1:4
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." -

1 Peter 2:8
"and 'A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.' They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do."

Romans 11:5-7
"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise, grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened"

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. .

I see you have never studied the bible regarding judas. Read the bible below and learn.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that Judas was saved or possessed eternal life. In fact it declares just the opposite. The bible teaches that Judas was the son of perdition from the beginning. He was created for the very purpose and role as the traitor who would betray Jesus. Jesus said of Judas it would of been better off for him to not even been born than to betray the Son of Man.

John 6:63-65
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

John 6:70-71
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray Him.)

John 12:4-6
But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 13:10-11
10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For He knew who was going to betray Him, and that was why He said not every one was clean.


John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Matt 26:23-25
23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"

Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

Acts 1:16-19
16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Acts 1:24-26
Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Ps 109:4-8
In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.

6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Easily

Romans 8:29-30
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Romans 9:22-23
"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory"

Ephesians 1:3-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved."

1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"


2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


John 17:9
"I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours."

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." -


Jude 1:4
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." -

1 Peter 2:8
"and 'A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.' They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do."

Romans 11:5-7
"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise, grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened"

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

hope this helps !!!

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[ChristisGod]

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

that is your rebuttal ?

unbelievable.

 

[Iconoclast]

I like 1 and 3, but 2 to me is defeatist. I don't agree with it at all. But the other two are great.

Here is Jc. Ryle for you CL.
(6) Let me ask, in the sixth place, _whether we know anything of
practical Christian holiness_?
It is as certain as anything in the Bible that "without holiness no man shall see the Lord." (Heb. xii. 14.) It is equally certain that it is the invariable fruit of saving faith, the
real test of regeneration, the only sound evidence of indwelling grace,
the certain consequence of vital union with Christ.--Holiness is not
absolute perfection and freedom from all faults. Nothing of the kind!
The wild words of some who talk of enjoying "unbroken communion with
God" for many months, are greatly to be deprecated, because they raise
unscriptural expectations in the minds of young believers, and so do
harm. Absolute perfection is for heaven, and not for earth, where we
have a weak body, a wicked world, and a busy devil continually near our
souls. Nor is real Christian holiness ever attained, or maintained,
without a constant fight and struggle. The great Apostle, who said "I
fight,--I labour,--I keep under my body and bring it into subjection" (1
Cor. ix. 27), would have been amazed to hear of _sanctification without
personal exertion_, and to be told that believers only need to sit
still, and everything will be done for them!

Yet, weak and imperfect as the holiness of the best saints may be, it is
a real true thing, and has a character about it as unmistakable as light
and salt. It is not a thing which begins and ends with noisy profession:
it will be _seen_ much more than _heard_. Genuine Scriptural holiness
will make a man do his duty at home and by the fireside, and adorn his
doctrine in the little trials of daily life. It will exhibit itself in
passive graces as well as in active. It will make a man humble, kind,
gentle, unselfish, good-tempered, considerate for others, loving, meek,
and forgiving. It will not constrain him to go out of the world, and
shut himself up in a cave, like a hermit. But it will make him do his
duty in that state to which God has called him, on Christian principles,
and after the pattern of Christ. Such holiness, I know well, is not
common. It is a style of practical Christianity which is painfully rare
in these days. But I can find no other standard of holiness in the Word
of God,--no other which comes up to the pictures drawn by our Lord and
His Apostles. In an age like this no reader can wonder if I press this
subject also on men's attention. Once more let us ask,--In the matter of
holiness, how is it with our souls? "How do we do?"

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is more CL;
Communion with Christ is the privilege of those who are continually
striving to grow in grace, and faith, and knowledge, and conformity to
the mind of Christ in all things,--who do not "look to the things
behind," and "count not themselves to have attained," but "press toward
the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
(Phil. iii. 14.)

Union is the bud, but communion is the flower:

union is the babe, but communion is the strong man. He that has union with Christ
does well; but he that enjoys communion with Him does far better.

Both have one life, one hope, one heavenly seed in their hearts,--one Lord,
one Saviour, one Holy Spirit, one eternal home: but union is not so good
as communion! The grand secret of communion with Christ is to be
continually "living the life of faith in Him," and drawing out of Him
every hour the supply that every hour requires. "To me," said St. Paul,
"to live is Christ."--"I live: yet not I, but Christ liveth in me."
(Gal. ii. 20; Phil. i. 21.)
Is communion with Christ like this a common thing? Alas! it is very rare
indeed! The greater part of believers seem content with the barest
elementary knowledge of justification by faith, and half-a-dozen other
doctrines, and go doubting, limping, halting, groaning along the way to
heaven, and experience little either of the sense of victory or joy. The
Churches of these latter days are full of weak, powerless, and
uninfluential believers, saved at last, "but so as by fire," but never
shaking the world, and knowing nothing of an "abundant entrance." (1
Cor. iii. 15; 2 Pet. i. 11.) Despondency and Feeble-mind and
Much-afraid, in "Pilgrim's Progress," reached the celestial city as
really and truly as Valiant-for-the-truth and Greatheart. But they
certainly did not reach it with the same comfort, and did not do a tenth
part of the same good in the world! I fear there are many like them in
these days! When things are so in the Churches, no reader can wonder
that I inquire how it is with our souls. Once more I ask,--In the matter
of communion with Christ, "How do we do?"

 

[Iconoclast]

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I trust and believe that is True.
If you do not believe that is True, it doesn't effect me.

The truth has no place in you at this time.If you want to make things up go ahead, but post 104 explains why you are in error.

 

[Iconoclast]

Cl;
Communion like this is the secret of the abiding "joy and peace in
believing," which eminent saints like Bradford and Rutherford
notoriously possessed. None were ever more humble, or more deeply
convinced of their own infirmities and corruption. They would have
told you that the seventh chapter of Romans precisely described
their own experience. They would have endorsed every word of the
"Confession" put into the mouths of true believers, in our
Prayer-book Communion Service. They would have said continually,
"The remembrance of our sins is grievous unto us; the burden of them
is intolerable." But they were ever looking unto Jesus, and in Him
they were ever able to rejoice.--Communion like this is the secret
of the splendid victories which such men as these won over sin, the
world, and the fear of death. They did not sit still idly, saying,
"I leave it all to Christ to do for me," but, strong in the Lord,
they used the Divine nature He had implanted in them, boldly and
confidently, and were "more than conquerors through Him that loved
them." (Rom. viii. 37.) Like St. Paul they would have said, "I can
do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." (Phil iv.
13.)--Ignorance of this life of communion is one among many reasons
why so many in this age are hankering after the Confessional, and
strange views of the "real presence" in the Lord's Supper. Such
errors often spring from imperfect knowledge of Christ, and obscure
views of the life of faith in a risen, living, and interceding
Saviour.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hey C.L.;
Quest. 94: What is sanctification? Ans: Sanctification is the work of God’s Word and Spirit, whereby the believer is renewed in the whole man after the image of God, has died to the reigning power of sin, and is enabled to live more and more unto righteousness, and to mortify the manifestations of indwelling sin and remaining corruption.

1 Cor. 1:1–2. 1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.

1 Cor. 1:30–31. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Eph. 4:22–24. 22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 1 Thess. 4:3–4, 7. 3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour….7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Heb. 12:14. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. 1 Pet. 1:15–16. 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Pet. 2:9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Jn. 17:17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 2 Cor. 7:1. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 1 Thess. 5:23. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 184 See Also in the Old Testament: Gen. 2:3; Ex. 13:2; 19:14; 20:8; 28:36, 41; 29:43; Lev. 10:3; 20:7; 21:8; Numb. 27:14; Deut. 5:12; Ezra 9:2; Psa. 24:3–4; 29:2; Jer. 1:5; Ezk. 22:26; Joel 2:16. See also in the New Testament: Matt. 1:21; Acts 26:18; Rom. 6:1– 23; 7:12; 8:29; 1 Cor. 6:9–11; 7:14; Eph. 1:4; 5:26; Phil. 2:12–13; Col. 3:1–10; 1 Tim. 2:8; 4:1–5; 2 Tim. 1:9, 14; 2:19–22; 3:15; Heb. 7:26; 1 Pet. 3:5, 15; 2 Pet. 1:20–21; 3:11; Jude 1

From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R. Downing

 

[Iconoclast]

pt2;
The two–fold principle of sanctification—separation and purification—is that of separation from what is common or unclean and separation or dedication unto God, with the cognate realities of purity, cleanliness and devotion to God. The Old Testament emphasis is on persons, sacrifices, objects, places, times and things separated from the common or profane unto God, and thus dedicated or consecrated unto him. The New Testament emphasis is rather upon separation from the pollution of the world and sin, and subsequent personal piety, godliness or holiness of life. In other words, the Old Testament tends to emphasize external, ritual or ceremonial separation and purification, while the New emphasizes personal moral purity and an obedient conformity to the character and Word of God (1 Pet. 1:14– 16; 2 Cor. 3:1–18; Jn. 17:17; 1 Jn. 2:3–5; 3:22–24; 5:2–4). The necessity and character of sanctification derive from six biblical truths: first, the moral character and glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31; 1 Pet. 1:15– 16; 2:9; 1 Cor. 10:31; 2 Cor. 3:17–18); second, the nature of sin as a polluting 185 and reigning power in the life (Rom. 6:14; 2 Cor. 7:1); third, the nature and goal of the redemptive purpose (Eph. 1:4; 1 Thess. 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15–16; 2:9); fourth, the restoration of the image of God in principle in the believer (Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 3:17–18; Eph. 4:22–24; Col. 3:9); fifth, the ultimate salvation of the whole person, i.e., glorification or the redemption of the body (Rom. 8:23; Phil. 3:20–21; 1 Thess. 5:23; 1 Jn. 3:1–4). Finally, the corporate sanctification of the church. Believers are not only sanctified as individuals, but in the context of their brothers and sisters in Christ within the context of the local assembly (Jn. 13:34–35; 1 Cor. 12:13–27; Eph. 4:25–32; Col. 3:9–23).

 

[Iconoclast]

pt3;
Gospel sanctification, i.e., the sanctification of the believer in the context of the New Testament, is at once a position or relationship, a definitive act and also a practical and progressive state.
Defects, doctrinal errors and heresies have resulted from not comprehending the entire reality of gospel sanctification, and thus emphasizing one aspect to the exclusion of the others.
Carefully mark the following:
first, sanctification is a spiritual position or status, a relationship which is described as the believer’s union with Christ. The believer is considered before God justified and sanctified “in Christ” and even, as it were, already in heaven, as to his position, although he proves to be imperfectly sanctified in actual experience (1 Cor. 1:2, 30; 6:11; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 2:4–7).

Second, sanctification is a definitive act which occurs simultaneously with and inseparable from regeneration. It consists in the breaking of the reigning power of sin, the re–creation of the image of God in principle, the removal of satanic blindness (2 Cor. 4:3–6), the impartation of the Holy Spirit by virtue of the believer’s union with Christ in his death and resurrection–life, and adoption as a son (Rom. 6:1–14, 17–18; 8:9––16; Gal. 4:6; Eph. 4:22–24; Col. 3:1–10).

Third, sanctification is the practical and progressive state descriptive of the believer’s experience and spiritual pilgrimage. This state is to be viewed in the context of the vivifying [enlivening] ministry of the Spirit, the mortification of sin, Divine chastening, and an increasing conformity to the image of God’s Son (Gal. 5:16–18; Rom. 8:1–4, 11–16, 29; Heb. 12:4–11; 2 Cor. 3:17–18).
Do you exemplify that “holiness without which no man can see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14)?

 

[Taken]

The truth has no place in you at this time.If you want to make things up go ahead, but post 104 explains why you are in error.

I'm not the one saying Scripture does not mean what it says.
I'm not the one accusing you of disbelief.


I speak what I believe.
Scripture verifies.
Doesn't matter if we disagree.
Doesn't matter if what applies to me does not apply to you.
I don't have to accuse you of anything, as some sort of underhanded verification that my belief is valid.
Your post # 104 has nothing to do with me.

 

[CadyandZoe]

They’ve responded to The prompting of God’s Spirit

Yes. But wouldn't you say that salvation begins with more than a "prompting"? After all, Paul was thrown from his horse right? (smile)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sure we all have opinions.
Can not sin, means to me, Can not sin.

No, I will not consider Can not sin, means Can sin.

So you believe you can't sin?

 

[Taken]

So you believe you can't sin?

Correct, (according to the Word of God, that applies to WHOSOEVER, is born of God).
And to clarify...I believe SIN is only Against God, and ONLY God forgives SIN.

As my SIN, "was" Against God, for being naturally born, NOT BELIEVING IN HIM...
He forgave me for HAVING HAD Disbelief.
He Restored (saved) (Pss 23:3) my soul.
He Quickened (born again my spirit), with His SEED, and He Keeps me IN soul life (with His breath) and spirit life (with His Seed)....and with and in Him with HIS Spirit....that NEVER AGAIN, is it possible for me to "NOT BELIEVE IN HIM" (is SIN).

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm not the one saying Scripture does not mean what it says.
I'm not the one accusing you of disbelief.


I speak what I believe.
Scripture verifies.
Doesn't matter if we disagree.
Doesn't matter if what applies to me does not apply to you.
I don't have to accuse you of anything, as some sort of underhanded verification that my belief is valid.
Your post # 104 has nothing to do with me.

no...when shown clearly what the passage teaches you turn from it as if the grammar used does not mean what it means.
you can just make up whatever you want, but you sin everyday.
you have a low view of scripture.
you cannot be taken seriously.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Here is Jc. Ryle for you CL.
(6) Let me ask, in the sixth place, _whether we know anything of
practical Christian holiness_?
It is as certain as anything in the Bible that "without holiness no man shall see the Lord." (Heb. xii. 14.) It is equally certain that it is the invariable fruit of saving faith, the
real test of regeneration, the only sound evidence of indwelling grace,
the certain consequence of vital union with Christ.--Holiness is not
absolute perfection and freedom from all faults. Nothing of the kind!
The wild words of some who talk of enjoying "unbroken communion with
God" for many months, are greatly to be deprecated, because they raise
unscriptural expectations in the minds of young believers, and so do
harm. Absolute perfection is for heaven, and not for earth, where we
have a weak body, a wicked world, and a busy devil continually near our
souls. Nor is real Christian holiness ever attained, or maintained,
without a constant fight and struggle. The great Apostle, who said "I
fight,--I labour,--I keep under my body and bring it into subjection" (1
Cor. ix. 27), would have been amazed to hear of _sanctification without
personal exertion_, and to be told that believers only need to sit
still, and everything will be done for them!

Yet, weak and imperfect as the holiness of the best saints may be, it is
a real true thing, and has a character about it as unmistakable as light
and salt. It is not a thing which begins and ends with noisy profession:
it will be _seen_ much more than _heard_. Genuine Scriptural holiness
will make a man do his duty at home and by the fireside, and adorn his
doctrine in the little trials of daily life. It will exhibit itself in
passive graces as well as in active. It will make a man humble, kind,
gentle, unselfish, good-tempered, considerate for others, loving, meek,
and forgiving. It will not constrain him to go out of the world, and
shut himself up in a cave, like a hermit. But it will make him do his
duty in that state to which God has called him, on Christian principles,
and after the pattern of Christ. Such holiness, I know well, is not
common. It is a style of practical Christianity which is painfully rare
in these days. But I can find no other standard of holiness in the Word
of God,--no other which comes up to the pictures drawn by our Lord and
His Apostles. In an age like this no reader can wonder if I press this
subject also on men's attention. Once more let us ask,--In the matter of
holiness, how is it with our souls? "How do we do?"

Thanks, IC, but this only makes me more sure that I don't believe #2.

I prefer 1 John 3:21-22, the test, and going on through 24.