I don't want to be an Atheist

[Super Kal]

(Remagoen;40865)
You know you're not wrong. That's close mindedness.The humble man knows he knows nothing.
I don't know everything, and I never will say that I do, but I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God loves you with everything that He is, and He desperately wants you to see that.

 

[Remagoen]

(Super Kal;40867)
I don't know everything, and I never will say that I do, but I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God loves you with everything that He is, and He desperately wants you to see that.
And I never said you know everything. We all know somethings, but we can never be 100% certain of them without treading into the realm of close mindedness. I willingly admit that I could be persuaded that the Earth is flat, however, I'll ask for proof before hand. If I was to state that I know beyond any doubt that the Earth is a sphere, that is close-minded.You say you can't be convinced otherwise. It's close minded.

 

[Super Kal]

(Remagoen;40868)
You say you can't be convinced otherwise. It's close minded.
I have seen, felt, and experienced too many things physically, mentally, and spiritually for someone to try and convince me that God does not exist. Open your heart... you say you don't want to be an atheist, fine, but follow through in what you do. Take the next step: open your heart and humbly ask God with everything that you are to show Himself. Our Lord is the only who can undo what we are and make us better than what we are today.

 

[followerofchrist]

I love working at a bookstore. I was flipping through the book on my lunch break and reading some of the things he was saying. I didn't get very far into the book and I was more skimming than anything else, but he does make some good, logical points. However, those logical points seem to come only after he made a case based on emotion, and used the logic to further he point. That's not proper."I admit again though that I was only skimming, but I plan to check the book out to bring it home in the near future. It seems, regardless of content, very well written and intelligently worded. My plate is rather full currently, however, and so I'm going to read it dreadfully slow though.Thank you for the recommendation." ~RemagoenI know what you mean, I am reading 13 books right now, none of which are going very quickly. Another book of similar type is called the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel

 

[Jackie D]

Originally Posted by Remagoen Is there anything I can say to you that would convince you that God isn't real?
who's the strawman? okay now I'm confused. You don't have anything to prove that He doesn't exist but you've come here to ask us to prove to you that He is real, yet you won't accept His Word as proof for you say it is unreliable? I don't get it what is it that you really want? so what is that some kind of logic trap on your part?
Do you honestly think I would waltz into this logic trap? No, I'm not coming here to prove God doesn't exist, and I'll never make any assurtion that he doesn't.
listen to the logic of your own words..."I'm not coming here to prove God doesn't exist" "I'll never make any assurtion" why not? A true atheist would...so why don't you? Could it be that it is because you really do believe that God exists? hmmm? these quotes completely contradict you as an "atheist"....but what ever it's your story.by the way faith is believing without seeing....having proof does not give faith...2+2=4 we all believe that because it is something that we are all taught because we have seen it so therefore it is so....and just because we've all seen it does not make us have any greater faith in anything. How can you know that the wind is real, have you ever seen it?

 

[forgivenWretch]

I don't want to be an Atheist
It is not hard to see that the quoted statement is nothing more than a mere taunt in seeking opinions or better yet seeking to attempt in making fools of others. It is quite obvious that you do not truly desire to be any thing but, even though you constantly tell us all who God is, what He does, what He can or can not do. According to you, there is no such thing as an atheist, for you have stated many times God, this God that.Remagoen, you have proved too many times to count that you are the most closed minded, closed hearted, person around here.For all of the rest of you who have taken your time to share your love for God with him, I salute you, but you know what there comes a time when you can only do so much, even God backs away.Remagoen, if you really wish not to be, then by all means do something about it, if you don't, then that is your choice. As I said at the beginning of this endless ploy, all it takes is an open heart, and an open mind. God is willing when you are.It really sorrows me to know that any one could be so hard and cold hearted. God be with you...He is even though you pretend not to believe in Him.

 

[stlizzy]

(forgivenWretch;40887)
It is not hard to see that the quoted statement is nothing more than a mere taunt in seeking opinions or better yet seeking to attempt in making fools of others. It is quite obvious that you do not truly desire to be any thing but, even though you constantly tell us all who God is, what He does, what He can or can not do. According to you, there is no such thing as an atheist, for you have stated many times God, this God that.Remagoen, you have proved too many times to count that you are the most closed minded, closed hearted, person around here.For all of the rest of you who have taken your time to share your love for God with him, I salute you, but you know what there comes a time when you can only do so much, even God backs away.Remagoen, if you really wish not to be, then by all means do something about it, if you don't, then that is your choice. As I said at the beginning of this endless ploy, all it takes is an open heart, and an open mind. God is willing when you are.It really sorrows me to know that any one could be so hard and cold hearted. God be with you...He is even though you pretend not to believe in Him.
Remagoen.... please, don't stop asking questions because of the above stated opinion. Please, keep talking with us.

 

[Jackie D]

why though? why continue inviting contention by one who has clearly chosen to come here and probably to other Christian forums just to stir the pot? After 11 pages he has yet to show anything other than his propensity to being rude to people who so "lovingly" have tried to explain things to him.

 

[forgivenWretch]

(Jackie D;40911)
why though? why continue inviting contention by one who has clearly chosen to come here and probably to other Christian forums just to stir the pot? After 11 pages he has yet to show anything other than his propensity to being rude to people who so "lovingly" have tried to explain things to him.
Amen Jackie D! Amen!

 

[Remagoen]

To followerofchrist,(followerofchrist;40881)
I know what you mean, I am reading 13 books right now, none of which are going very quickly. Another book of similar type is called the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
I did research on Strobel once before a while back. I'm not too sure about his credentials. While Lewis is someone I would view as dependable, I would certainly view Strobel with an eye of doubt. If I can find again where I got that information I'll pass it on to you to see what you think.Hopefully I'll find it sooner rather than later.To Jackie,(Jackie D;40883)
who's the strawman? okay now I'm confused. You don't have anything to prove that He doesn't exist but you've come here to ask us to prove to you that He is real, yet you won't accept His Word as proof for you say it is unreliable? I don't get it what is it that you really want? so what is that some kind of logic trap on your part?
I won't accept his "word" has proof because of the many horror and contradictions I've found in it. (Jackie D;40883)
listen to the logic of your own words..."I'm not coming here to prove God doesn't exist" "I'll never make any assurtion" why not? A true atheist would...so why don't you?
So now you resort to trying to tell me what I am and what I should be doing.Guess what, this is the end of the conversation between us. To forgivenWretch,(forgivenWretch;40887)
It is not hard to see that the quoted statement is nothing more than a mere taunt in seeking opinions or better yet seeking to attempt in making fools of others. It is quite obvious that you do not truly desire to be any thing but, even though you constantly tell us all who God is, what He does, what He can or can not do. According to you, there is no such thing as an atheist, for you have stated many times God, this God that.
Uh huh.... I see...(forgivenWretch;40887)
Remagoen, you have proved too many times to count that you are the most closed minded, closed hearted, person around here.
Ok...(forgivenWretch;40887)
For all of the rest of you who have taken your time to share your love for God with him, I salute you, but you know what there comes a time when you can only do so much, even God backs away.
That last statement humors me. "Even God backs away." You actually make me laugh.(forgivenWretch;40887)
Remagoen, if you really wish not to be, then by all means do something about it, if you don't, then that is your choice. As I said at the beginning of this endless ploy, all it takes is an open heart, and an open mind. God is willing when you are.It really sorrows me to know that any one could be so hard and cold hearted. God be with you...He is even though you pretend not to believe in Him.
If you haven't noticed, I am doing something about it. I'm here, aren't I?Regardless, instead of actually putting up and form of logical argument, you've resorted to simple attacks on my character. You will be ignored by me here on out.To Stlizzy,(stlizzy;40890)
Remagoen.... please, don't stop asking questions because of the above stated opinion. Please, keep talking with us.
Don't worry. I've seen that there is intelligent life here, and that fact comforts me. Asking questions is my forte, and I intend to ask questions about anything and everything until the day I die. These two users are bellow me, and I'm not going to let myself fall to their level.Oh, and sorry I missed you on AIM. I was playing a fantastic game: Sins of a Solar Empire. I was trashing an enemies defenses with my capitol ships while pirates were attacking my flanks. Rather fun!

 

[Super Kal]

remagoen, you said you wanted proof that God exists without the Bible... okay...the most easiest way to find this out is through Jesus Christ, which was also God the Son.Tacitus (Roman historian, AD 64)"Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . ."Pliny the Younger (Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, AD 112)"They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."the Babylonian Talmud (Jewish rabbinical writings compiled between approximately A.D. 70-500)"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy." Lucian (second century Greek satirist)"The Christians . . . worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws."

 

[Jackie D]

Remagoen, you have read the word of God as you've admitted, you have spoken to-obviously- many Christians about God and why you don't believe...okay point taken. So why do you stick around these places? What is the sense?
Don't worry. I've seen that there is intelligent life here, and that fact comforts me. Asking questions is my forte, and I intend to ask questions about anything and everything until the day I die. These two users are bellow me, and I'm not going to let myself fall to their level.
which level would that be? Why not go hang out with people who think and act like you? Instead of come in here and treat us as if we are a bunch of people with no more sense than God gave a rock? Obviously you have found yourself superior to the rest of us as you so clearly stated in your last post that you have found at least some intelligent life here. So why do you continue to talk with such stupid people as ourselves? And what is the sense in your rudeness? Do you really think that is the worst the devil has to dish out for us? Hmmm? Please don't answer that...my stomach is sick by how people-yes I'm talkin to you- allow the devil and his demons to control them to try to hurt God's people. You have yourself a good life now...may the Lord knock you to your knees with His presence one day....God's love to you...bye

 

[Super Kal]

remagoen, you said that you've asked in the past for God to show you His existence... I ask that you try again, and really mean it. The easiest thing I can think of for you is to Pray to God and ask... not demand... ask... Him to show you His presence, pick up a bible, close your eyes, and just open anywhere, and pick anywhere with your eyes still closed... it can be just as small and simple as that.

 

[Remagoen]

To Super Kal,Right off the bat I want to apologize to you. I just realized I didn't reply to you before and I don't want to make it seem like I was totally ignoring you. I'm sorry.Now to respond to your most recent post...Very interesting, and a VERY big thank you for digging these up. Certainly this would be something I would have give some weight to.Unfortunately, a few things jumped out at me. First, a quick search on Wiki said that the death of Jesus was around 36 AD. Another search showed that Tacitus was born around 56 AD. That would make it about a 20 year difference, but lets assume 10 for fun just because Wikipedia can be unreliable. This would mean that Tacitus got all of his information second hand, which, given his reputation, is rather reliable, but still not as good as first hand. The Other three would suffer from the same problem too.Also, looking at it as is own first person perspective of the events happening around him in Rome, he seemed a bit skeptical of the Christians himself by calling it "a most mischievous superstition".Either way, you've piqued my curiosity. Could you show me your sources? I'd like to take a look at them myself and see what else I could find. Who knows, I just might find God.For one last thing, you've just shown me something I've been asking for this entire time: Sources of God outside of the Bible. Thank you, once more. Along these same lines, if you could show me a reliable historian that actually claimed to see the death and resurrection of Christ, that would certainly be something indeed!(Super Kal)
remagoen, you said that you've asked in the past for God to show you His existence... I ask that you try again, and really mean it. The easiest thing I can think of for you is to Pray to God and ask... not demand... ask... Him to show you His presence, pick up a bible, close your eyes, and just open anywhere, and pick anywhere with your eyes still closed...it can be just as small and simple as that.
I prayed once again. I begged. But it felt hollow. I tried, but I don't feel like I'm praying to anything beyond my ceiling. I just can't shake it...but I tried.I did flip open my Bible though. I landed on Psalm 50, specifically Psalm 50:3. As I read it, for the same reason why I feel like I'm praying to my ceiling, it get the feeling that I'm reading nothing more than an ordinary book. I'm trying, Super Kal. I'm trying.

 

[Siskim]

Brother..... What good in trying anything....the only thing worthy is to find the Truth. Nothing else will lead to the real answers...and only the real answers hold the real meaning to life. To try things...is like wandering endlessly around the bush and going nowhere but around and around....If there is Truth, there can only be one; Truth itself says so, means so....It also says that whatever isn't true is false or a lie or such....As far as God...He isn't going to prove Himself to us in the way our mortality wants or chooses...No god or King or High Power is going to become what we want in order to let us see what we want "in the way" we want...And there is wisdom in this....which is...if we could make God become what we "think" or "want" Him to be...He wouldn't be God...he would be a mortal man!It's not our position or right to try to get God to meet our standards...it's our priveldege that He has provided us a way to have access to...the knowledge of Him and Him....He is not ever going to prove Himself in the ways mortal man asks or wants...He says that if we come to Him we must come Believing that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him....He is saying, Faith is the way to Him, and without faith we we never know Him...by saying this he is saying....If you don't or won't Believe that I am God...then you will never know or find me....but if you Believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him....It's to those who seek him with a whole heart....to those who love Him that He reveals his mysteries...The first commandment, of the Law, which is written in every man's heart...(Conscience?).........Love the Lord your God with all you heart and mind and soul or strength....His Law He wrote in "every" man's heart....He "knows" you....and we can talk to endless people...and discuss endless matters....but it all amounts to running around in endless circles until we ........take a mind and heart to seek the Lord who if we seek Him with all our heart...we will surely find Him.Yes, we have choices...a free will...God even showed me once something interesting....that we not only have a free will but that He "insists" we have one....He does Not want us to choose Him or to be persuaded toward Him by men if it's not really what we want....And there is great Love in this if we can see it....He "will" reveal Himself to you and the mysteries of who He is and of the wonders of His Love and Kingdom...if you "want" Him.....if we don't, he is as many have said....A Gentleman....he will never try to force you....or manipulate you....as people may....But He surely Loves you and does hope that you will choose to want to seek Him and find Him. I also hope you do............love siskim

 

[Super Kal]

(Remagoen;40930)
Psalm 50:3I'm trying, Super Kal. I'm trying.
I'm very happy to hear that.and I will get to those historians, but first, let me ask you a question... would you agree that this book, more specifically the Old Testament, was written a very long time ago, long before anyone knew about how to measure earthquakes, understand how tectonic plates worked, and fault lines?

 

[Remagoen]

To Siskim,To which I reply, HUH?Of the points that you brought up, I was either totally confused by what you said or had already covered them in prior posts. Can you please rephrase?(Super Kal;40938)
I'm very happy to hear that.and I will get to those historians, but first, let me ask you a question... would you agree that this book, more specifically the Old Testament, was written a very long time ago, long before anyone knew about how to measure earthquakes, understand how tectonic plates worked, and fault lines?
Of course I would agree to that. The NT would be about 1,700 years old (as we see it today), and the OT MUCH older than that. I wouldn't be able to put an exact date on it, however, as I don't recall a "Council of Nicea" (sp?) like event for the old one. But, yes, I do agree to that.

 

[Super Kal]

(Remagoen;40939)
Of course I would agree to that. The NT would be about 1,700 years old (as we see it today), and the OT MUCH older than that. I wouldn't be able to put an exact date on it, however, as I don't recall a "Council of Nicea" (sp?) like event for the old one. But, yes, I do agree to that.
okay...now what if I said that for the past 41 years, there has been real geological proof that the books Zechariah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Amos talk about?if I'm not mistaken, you'd probably want to see the geological evidence first...

 

[Remagoen]

(Super Kal;40943)
okay...now what if I said that for the past 41 years, there has been real geological proof that the books Zechariah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Amos talk about?if I'm not mistaken, you'd probably want to see the geological evidence first...
You're not mistaken, though I wouldn't mind seeing both.You have my attention.

 

[Remagoen]

To followerofChrist,(followerofchrist;40881)
Another book of similar type is called the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
(remagoen)
I did research on Strobel once before a while back. I'm not too sure about his credentials.
Yesterday at on lunch at work, I went back to pick up Mere Christianity again and do some reading when I looked for any of Strobel's works. It had hit me that I had made an ad hominem attack on Strobel by arguing, "because he has bad credentials, he can't possibly have anything noteworthy to say".I was wrong, I apologize.We had only one book of his (Case of a Creator, I think it was, involving ID) and I read the back of the book. Line after line, I read things that scientists have proven time and time again to be wrong. Even flipping through it, I found so many confusions about how science works, how evolutions work, and other outright wrongs. From there alone, I'm not too sure about Strobel once again.Anyway, on to Lewis.Browsing the ToC, I found the section of faith rather interesting, so I thumbed over to it. What I read shocked me and made complete sense, and I think I'll refer other Atheists over to it. Basically, if I don't believe in faith, don't worry about it, just skip over it (though he didn't say don't read anything), and come back at a later time. He said, faith is something that comes naturally, and that I should just let it be.That makes sense. It really does.Seeing how I now had nothing to read, I went over to Sexual Morality, as it is something I'm very passionate about. He gave three examples (the first to of which I thoroughly agree with, the third I couldn't accept [forgot why] but do acknowledge) of comparing sex and food, and I see no reason to change this excellent analogy. I don't remember them exactly from the top of my head but the basics are as follows:Sex and food are both necessary. Food is for sustaining the body with energy, while sex is to further the human race. We wouldn't go around eating everything in sight, so why should we go around and have sex with everything in sight. That makes perfect sense. (Rereading what I just said really does no justice for Lewis said, and I totally encourage anyone reading this to go and read it his or herself.)He fails to cover something interesting, however. Whether that is an actual failure or just a ignorance from the time he was living in (with the lack of recent studies and advances in biology), I don't know. That point he missed is about the health benefits of having sex, including having a healthier immune system, healthier heart, and clearer mind. These right here would be like, keeling with his analogy, taking vitamins. (Again, rereading that, I think that's a bad comparison. If someone finds it weak, please ask me to make it clearer.)Of course, I don't mention this with the idea of supporting rape or orgies; both partners should be consenting, mature individuals.