I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[shepherdsword]

The point is why single out the Catholic church? There are countless topics on the Catholic Church across this site.

Sigh why is there always such a divide and such a focus on the Catholics....

It should be about Jesus and not which denomination do you belong to.

Not if the "denomination' is teaching doctrines that could damn the soul

 

[Brakelite]

I asked Grok what the Catechism teaches regarding salvation. Here is its response.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) provides a comprehensive teaching on salvation, rooted in Catholic theology. Below is a concise summary of its key points:1. Definition and Purpose of SalvationSalvation is the fulfillment of God's plan for humanity, which is to share in His divine life through grace. It involves liberation from sin and death and communion with God in eternal life (CCC 1023, 169).The ultimate goal of salvation is eternal union with God in heaven, where the faithful experience the Beatific Vision (seeing God "face to face") (CCC 1028).2. Jesus Christ as the Source of SalvationSalvation is accomplished through Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God, who through His life, death, and resurrection redeemed humanity from sin (CCC 606-618).Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is the unique and definitive means of salvation for all people (CCC 1741). He is the "one mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5; CCC 1544).The Paschal Mystery (Christ’s passion, death, resurrection, and ascension) is central to salvation, as it reconciles humanity with God (CCC 571-573).3. Role of GraceSalvation is a gift of God’s grace, freely given and unmerited by human efforts (CCC 1996-2000).Grace is received primarily through the sacraments, especially Baptism, which initiates a person into the life of grace, and the Eucharist, which nourishes it (CCC 1129, 1131).Humans cooperate with grace through faith and good works, but salvation is ultimately God’s initiative (CCC 2001-2002).4. Faith and WorksSalvation requires faith in Jesus Christ and adherence to His teachings (CCC 161-162).While faith is essential, it must be lived out through charity (love) and good works, which are fruits of grace (CCC 1814-1816, 1821).The Catholic Church rejects the notion that salvation is by "faith alone" or "works alone," emphasizing the synergy of faith and works (CCC 2007-2010; cf. James 2:17).5. The Church’s RoleThe Catholic Church is the universal sacrament of salvation, instituted by Christ to continue His saving work (CCC 774-776).The Church dispenses the means of salvation (Scripture, sacraments, and teachings) and is necessary for salvation, though God can save those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel (CCC 846-848).The principle of "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" ("outside the Church there is no salvation") is understood in light of God’s universal salvific will, meaning all salvation comes through Christ and His Church, even for those who are invincibly ignorant of it (CCC 846-856).6. Universal Call to SalvationGod desires the salvation of all people (1 Timothy 2:4; CCC 851).Salvation is offered to all, but each person must freely respond to God’s grace (CCC 1730, 1861).Non-Christians may attain salvation if they sincerely seek God and follow their conscience, as God’s grace can work invisibly in their hearts (CCC 847-848).7. Judgment and Eternal DestinyAt the end of life, each person faces particular judgment, determining their eternal destiny: heaven, purgatory (for those destined for heaven but needing purification), or hell (for those who freely reject God) (CCC 1021-1022).The Last Judgment will reveal God’s justice and mercy, confirming the eternal state of all souls (CCC 1038-1041).Hell is a real possibility for those who persistently refuse God’s love, but the Church does not teach that any specific person is in hell (CCC 1033-1037).8. Eschatological HopeThe Catechism emphasizes the hope of salvation, encouraging Christians to persevere in faith, prayer, and charity (CCC 1817-1821).The resurrection of the body and the renewal of creation are part of God’s salvific plan, culminating in the "new heaven and new earth" (CCC 1042-1050).Key Passages from the CatechismCCC 169: "Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother."CCC 620: "Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because ‘he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins’ (1 John 4:10)."CCC 846: "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."SummaryThe Catechism teaches that salvation is God’s gift, achieved through Jesus Christ’s redemptive work, and received through faith, grace, and participation in the sacraments of the Church. It involves a lifelong journey of cooperation with God’s grace, culminating in eternal life for those who respond to His call. While the Church is the ordinary means of salvation, God’s mercy extends to all who seek Him sincerely.If you’d like a deeper dive into specific aspects (e.g., sacraments, judgment, or non-Catholics), let me know!

And there it is. A denial of the atonement through the blood of Christ.

 

[NotTheRock]

And there it is. A denial of the atonement through the blood of Christ.

One either believes the Bible, which is the word of God, or one believes the Catechism, which is the word of man. The doctrines of Catholicism are so deep into contradictions of the scriptures that I believe it can be argued that it is NOT a Christian denomination. Of course, the reader can form their own opinion.

 

[shepherdsword]

One either believes the Bible, which is the word of God, or one believes the Catechism, which is the word of man. The doctrines of Catholicism are so deep into contradictions of the scriptures that I believe it can be argued that it is NOT a Christian denomination. Of course, the reader can form their own opinion.

The RCC has been polluted with the leaven of the Pharisees and has fallen into their sin:

Mk 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[NotTheRock]

The RCC has been polluted with the leaven of the Pharisees and has fallen into their sin:

Mk 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Indeed.

 

[Brakelite]

The point is why single out the Catholic church?

That's actually a fair question. We don't discuss Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, or any number of other "isms" anywhere near as much as we do Catholicism. Considering there are over a billion Catholics in the world... About a sixth of the entire population... All of whom consider themselves Christian, are we really justified in focusing so much of our attention on that particular denomination of Christianity?
My answer is yes, absolutely. Why? Because this is a Christian forum and it is our responsibility as members of that faith paradigm to defend it against those that are a danger to its existence. "What!!?" you ask. "Catholicism a danger to the existence of Christianity?" Yes, absolutely. "How?" you ask. Another fair question. Because it is her stated, written, sworn and avowed purpose to destroy Protestantism wherever she may find it, if it is safe and in her best interests to do so. These basically were her written and sworn objectives that came out of the council of Trent. Because councils and the resulting conclusions are ex cathedra, then the doctrines emanating from them are infallible. The right to destroy heresy, and those that teach it, were affirmed at Trent.
Rome hasn't changed. She may not openly persecute and destroy her enemies, but she is still hard at work behind the scenes doing all she can to exalt herself and trample down all opposition. The very fact that in America today you have a vast number of former protestants and current Catholics lifting up President Trump as their deliverer from leftist evil, praising him as the most positive president ever in favour of the Catholic church, reveals how well Rome has done her work.
Yes, there are still some protestants out there who believe the Roman apostasy is the Antichrist of scripture and who will protest still her false doctrines and disclose the true goals and aims of the papal power intent on having complete global authority. Which is why we single her out above all others. Buddhism, Hinduism etc, are not as dangerous. Not even Islam. Rome however, she is the Antichrist. As proven by many of the above posts, she has replaced Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and the only Mediator and means by which we may approach God, with another. Herself.

 

[shepherdsword]

That's actually a fair question. We don't discuss Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, or any number of other "isms" anywhere near as much as we do Catholicism.

That's because "Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism or Mithraism" do not claim to be established as the one true church of the Lord Jesus Christ and you are damned to hell if you are not a part of it.

 

[Brakelite]

That's because "Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism or Mithraism" do not claim to be established as the one true church of the Lord Jesus Christ and you are damned to hell if you are not a part of it.

Exactly. Well, Islam might. But Islam isn't the Antichrist. They don't uphold Christ with one hand and trample upon His authority with their feet.

 

[shepherdsword]

Exactly. Well, Islam might. But Islam isn't the Antichrist. They don't uphold Christ with one hand and trample upon His authority with their feet.

Islam never claims to be a church of Jesus Christ. Islam is antichrist according to this:

2 Jn 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Pearl]

If they are genuine and are in a true relationship with Jesus, He will take them out of that communion,, as He has done for countless others.

Perhaps He will but He might also want them to stay and influence others.

 

[Behold]

Now I am not saying they have got everything right, they don't have everything right like other denominations don't have everything right.

Its not about that.......@Josho.

See, there are some teachings that dont matter......in other words, they are not lies, they are just confusions.

And then there are man made false made up teachings that try to rewrite Salvation, or they try to misapply worship.

So, in the case of the "cult of Mary"..........this cult is proven to be so, because they falsely redefine HOW you are saved.......
They teach that "water washes away your sin", and in fact its the blood of Jesus that washed away your sin.

And then there is their obsession with Mary.......So, they've borrowed Pagan Theology that is related to Pagan "Goddess Diana"" teaching and morphed it into "perpetual virgin" Mary, and "queen of heaven" Mary...... and. they have also falsely redefined Mary as "co-author of Salvation"

So, these are incredible Lies.... and not just some ... "well, its not really important".

However they do manage to back up most of their beliefs, practices and traditions with scripture,

No they can't.
They can post a verse, and then say..>>"see there we proved it".

They proved only that they have a large and every expanding collection of man made bible rejecting teachings, that they call "our Traditions".

Abraham wasn't perfect, David wasn't perfect, Moses wasn't perfect, Apostle Peter wasn't perfect, Matthew the tax collector wasn't perfect. It is not about perfection or being better than another, however they all had one thing in common, they all acknowledged and accepted the Lord God Almighty.

Becoming a Christian is a very specific situation, and if you rewrite the "how to" so that its a lie, then a lot of people will never go to Heaven, who wanted to go, and were FOOLED by this Cult into thinking that water baptism saved them.

I don't know why some have an obsession with criticizing Catholics,

The reason that someone like me comes to a forum, is for 2 reasons.
Its to teach Paul's theology, as this is almost impossible to find and HEAR, in these "last days" as there is a famine of the word.

The 2nd Reason, is to help real students of the Bible, who are stuck in Hebrews 6:1.......get out of it, and live in Hebrews 13:9, and this is also related to learning "how to spot a cult" or a "cult theology".

Christains are trapped by these deceivers because they have not been taught how to spiritually SEE and Hear these cults and theological heresies.
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[Lizbeth]

This is one reason why. My goodness they are deceived and lost! There is ZERO chance that God's humble and faithful servant would EVER say such a thing. These apparitions are demonic and this is coming from a 50-year Catholic that once thought that the "Lady of Fatima" stuff was great. That was before I picked up a Bible. View attachment 62742

You are right. It is not Christianity. I was raised in the Catholic church as a child.......and after being born again in my late twenties I avoided Catholicism and knew there was a lot wrong with it, but just never was quite sure how to think of it, whether it was to be considered a Christian denomination or not. But not long ago the Lord was gracious to give me the revelation, a download from heaven, that the spirit ruling the Catholic church IS NOT HIS SPIRIT! That means it is the devil who rules it. So now I am UNEQUIVOCAL that Catholicism is NOT OF GOD, period. It is not Christian, it is not a Christian denomination....it is a horse of a different colour altogether. We must realize that the devil doesn't come dressed in a red devil suit with horns and a pointed tail, but he is a subtle foe, deceitful, and dressed in lamb's clothing...an angel of light.

 

[David in NJ]

What is your view on a few Pentecostals out there then? A few of them do put a very big emphasis on angels and talking to angels.

Now we know angels are real, but surely an over emphasis on them could be a bit dangerous right?

All denominations have problems.

We are not instructed to personally seek out angels for dialogue, which is very dangerous.

 

[Lizbeth]

The RCC has been polluted with the leaven of the Pharisees and has fallen into their sin:

Mk 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

It's quite amazing how Catholicism resembles old covenant Judaism........priests, robes, altar, incense, liturgy....etc. They have a lot in common and are of the same spirit. (When one "host" gets destroyed, like Jerusalem and the corrupt Temple in 70 AD, that devil or devils seeks another "host" to live in.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Perhaps He will but He might also want them to stay and influence others.

I think it depends on what you mean by "stay"........we are not to be unequally yoked with anything that is false.

 

[Lizbeth]

The point is why single out the Catholic church? There are countless topics on the Catholic Church across this site.

Sigh why is there always such a divide and such a focus on the Catholics....

It should be about Jesus and not which denomination do you belong to.

Unfortunately Catholicism is not a Christian denomination.

 

[Lizbeth]

Some believe that, just as some Jews didn't believe that Jesus was God, but He is.



Catholics, including myself, pray to the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. And, the apostles were the first priests, that's what Jesus spent three years training them to be, and one of the things He gave them authority to do as His priests is forgive sins in His name:

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.” (Jn. 20:23)

Priests today are their successors. Soo, what the heck are you talking about...

There aren't specially ordained priests in the new covenant of Christ. Now it is the "priesthood of all believers". Neither Jesus nor the apostles were priests in the traditional sense.

Man-made institutions have departed from the simplicity of Christ, as the apostle wrote about. His kingdom comes not with careful observation that you may say, lo there it is, or lo here, but is within His people by His Spirit. The Catholic church points to itself, instead of pointing to Christ and the necessity of being born of His Spirit, in order to be saved.

 

[Josho]

If you're ordering me to no longer discuss Catholic doctrines I will happily oblige you and take such discussions elsewhere. Although I must ask which other doctrines you not want discussed here so that I don't again offend you.

No all is well, I just was wondering, it's not just you, there are many that seem to put a focus on Catholicism.

There are 2 types of Catholics I believe, born again and not born again.

When you hear of those that were christened as a baby, but weren't really taught about Jesus while growing up, then something's not quite right.

 

[Behold]

It's quite amazing how Catholicism resembles old covenant Judaism........priests, robes, altar, incense, liturgy....etc. They have a lot in common and are of the same spirit. (When one "host" gets destroyed, like Jerusalem and the corrupt Temple in 70 AD, that devil or devils seeks another "host" to live in.)

Catholic Priests wear "BLACK Robes".. and so did the Priest (worshipers of "BaaL" , and this Demon god was worshipped by this clergy, in Jerusalem, itself.

 

[Lizbeth]

No all is well, I just was wondering, it's not just you, there are many that seem to put a focus on Catholicism.

There are 2 types of Catholics I believe, born again and not born again.

When you hear of those that were christened as a baby, but weren't really taught about Jesus while growing up, then something's not quite right.

The reason is that Catholicism is a counterfeit form of Christianity and this makes it very deceptive.....so people need to be warned against it and learn to discern it for what it is.