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muslimhastamstudy

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Hi all,

I am new to this forum and joined here because I have a question:

Is it mentioned in the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah is a descendant of the son that Abraham wanted to sacrifice? If yes, Which book?
 

GRACE ambassador

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Hi all,

I am new to this forum and joined here because I have a question:

Is it mentioned in the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah is a descendant of the son that Abraham wanted to sacrifice? If yes, Which book?
Yes, Matthew 1:1-16 should help answer your question...
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Cassandra

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Yes, and even tho Isaac is Abraham's son, it makes no mention of him
 

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Hi all,

I am new to this forum and joined here because I have a question:

Is it mentioned in the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah is a descendant of the son that Abraham wanted to sacrifice? If yes, Which book?
@muslimhastamstudy - Genesis 22. re: Isaac the son of Abraham. Throughout the old testiment, bible mentions Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” which he made a covenant with. The nation of Israel did not exist in Abraham's time. It came into being when Jacob (His grandson, Isaac's son) wrestled with an angel of the Lord. and his name was changed there...Genesis 32:28-30
 
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Patrick1966

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Hi all,

I am new to this forum and joined here because I have a question:

Is it mentioned in the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah is a descendant of the son that Abraham wanted to sacrifice? If yes, Which book?
Abraham didn't "want" to sacrifice Isaac.

Yes, the Christian Bible teaches that Jesus, who was and is the promised Messiah, was a descendant of Isaac.

Matthew 1

English Standard Version

The Genealogy of Jesus Christ​

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, 3 and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram,[a] 4 and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, 5 and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, 6 and Jesse the father of David the king.
And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, 7 and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asaph,[b] 8 and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, 9 and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, 10 and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos,[c] and Amos the father of Josiah, 11 and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
12 And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel,[d] and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, 13 and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor, 14 and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud, 15 and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, 16 and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations.
 
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muslimhastamstudy

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I don't think so. It's mostly about Christ being in the line of David.
I think he is the only one who understood the point of my question.

Some Muslims claim that the boy who was to be sacrificed is Ishmael, and the Torah has been manipulated. And they say that it is prophesied in the other books that the Messiah is a descendant of that person who was supposed to be sacrificed. I want to know if it is mentioned somewhere that the Messiah will come from the boy who was supposed to be sacrificed?
 
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sheariah07

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I think he is the only one who understood the point of my question.

Some Muslims claim that the boy who was to be sacrificed is Ishmael, and the Torah has been Mutilated. And they say that it is prophesied in the Old Testament that the Messiah is a descendant of that person who was supposed to be sacrificed. I want to know if it is mentioned somewhere that the Messiah will come from the person who was supposed to be sacrificed?
Is this what you're possibly looking for? The whole chapter 1 of Matthew it traces the lineage of the Messiah back to Isaac, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 1:1-2 KJV
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. [2] Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

Genesis 21:12 KJV
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Isaac was the boy who was to be sacrificed, not Ishmael based on the Torah (inside the Old Testament).

Genesis 22:1-13 KJV
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. [2] And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. [3] And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. [4] Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. [5] And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. [6] And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. [7] And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? [8] And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. [9] And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. [10] And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. [11] And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. [12] And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. [13] And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
 
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Johann

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I think he is the only one who understood the point of my question.

Some Muslims claim that the boy who was to be sacrificed is Ishmael, and the Torah has been manipulated. And they say that it is prophesied in the other books that the Messiah is a descendant of that person who was supposed to be sacrificed. I want to know if it is mentioned somewhere that the Messiah will come from the person who was supposed to be sacrificed?
Can you be more specific-you can use the Quran if you like.
Johann.
 

muslimhastamstudy

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Is this what you're possibly looking for? The whole chapter 1 of Matthew it traces the lineage of the Messiah back to Isaac, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 1:1-2 KJV
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. [2] Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

Genesis 21:12 KJV
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Isaac was the boy who was to be sacrificed, not Ishmael based on the Torah.

Genesis 22:1-13 KJV
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. [2] And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. [3] And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. [4] Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. [5] And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. [6] And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. [7] And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? [8] And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. [9] And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. [10] And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. [11] And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. [12] And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. [13] And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
I am looking for relation between "The act of sacrifice by Abraham" and the "Messianic prophecies"! I don't looking for who was the sacrificing boy!
 
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Enoch111

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Hi all,

I am new to this forum and joined here because I have a question: Is it mentioned in the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah is a descendant of the son that Abraham wanted to sacrifice? If yes, Which book?
Isaac is shown as the ancestor of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah of Israel, in the Gospel of Matthew (Mt 1:,12) which gives the genealogy of Christ:: The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
 

muslimhastamstudy

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Can you be more specific-you can use the Quran if you like.
Johann.
I am searching! I do not want to defend a belief. But it is true that many Muslims believe that the person whom Abraham sacrificed was Ishmael, and they claim that It is mentioned in the Messianic prophecies, The one who is supposed to be the savior comes from the generation of the one who was supposed to be sacrificed by Abraham.

I don't looking for who was the sacrificing boy! I am looking for relation between "The act of sacrifice by Abraham" and the "Messianic prophecies".
 
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Johann

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I am searching! I do not want to defend a belief. But it is true that many Muslims believe that the person whom Abraham sacrificed was Ishmael, and they claim that It is mentioned in the Messianic prophecies, The one who is supposed to be the savior comes from the generation of the one who was supposed to be sacrificed by Abraham.
Therefore, it is purely wishful thinking for Muslims to use the rites of the Hajj as proof that Abraham offered up Ishmael at Mecca near the Kabah, since pre-Islamic history indicates that these rites were nothing more than pagan customs adopted by Muhammad into Islam. Further, as was noted, Islamic scholarship strongly disagrees and much confusion still exists over the identity of the son, with some arguing for Isaac and others for Ishmael.

The lack of uniformity of opinion and the ambiguity of the Quran in regard to this issue helps to solidify the Biblical narrative as vastly superior and more trustworthy.

Finally, the Quran gives no clear reason why God would test Abraham in this fashion, and yet the Bible does. Abraham and Isaac were shadows of what was to eventually come nearly two thousand years later on the same mountain site where Isaac was offered.

Just as Abraham displayed unconditional love for God in his willingness to sacrifice his one and only son, God also gave up his only beloved Son on the cross of Calvary to prove to the world that He is the true source of unconditional, infinite love. Whereas God withheld the hand of Abraham from completing the sacrifice, He did not withhold his own hand from sacrificing his only Son, going to the extremes in displaying his love for mankind, an extreme that even Abraham did not cross.

Interestingly when Abraham was leading Isaac to the mountainside, Isaac asked his father where the Lamb was that was to be sacrificed, to which Abraham replied, "God will provide himself the Lamb for a burnt offering, my son." (cf. Gen. 22:7,8)

Yet instead of finding a Lamb, a ram was given. (cf. Gen. 22:13) This is primarily due to the fact that the Lamb of God was to arrive two thousand years later:

"The next day he (John) saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, ‘Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!’ ... ‘Behold the Lamb of God’." (John 1:29,36).

Here was the Lamb of God sent to atone for the sin of the world. This is the awesome ransom that the Quran alludes to: Jesus Christ, the Eternal Word of the Father, offering himself as a ransom of infinite value, covering the debt of sin from beginning to end and throughout eternity.

Tabari notes that the Islamic practice of animal sacrifice done in commemoration of Abraham and his son, "wards off an evil death, so sacrifice, O servants of God!" (2: p. 96).

How much more, then, will Christ's sacrifice atone for mankind's wickedness seeing that man's worth is far greater in the eyes of God than animals. Because Christ is the Eternal Word animal sacrifices are no longer needed, since Christ's atonement is sufficient for all time:

"When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from the acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance - now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant." (Hebrews 9:11-15).

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God." (Hebrews 10:12).

Thus, Abraham and Isaac were shadows of the things that were to come, pointing to the Father and Son's willingness to sacrifice themselves in the greatest display of love the world has ever seen; the Father's willingness in sacrificing his eternal love, with the Son giving up his own life on behalf of fallen humanity:

"For God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8 R.S.V.).

"... For God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins." (1 John 4:8b-10 R.S.V.).

This is indeed the greatest love story the world has ever known:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16 R.S.V.).

I would urge you to read this link-and welcome to the forum.

 
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Johann

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Jews, Christians and Muslims agree; Abraham, the friend of God, is an example of pure and unconditional righteousness and faith. The love that Abraham displayed towards God is clearly seen in Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only beloved son. All three religions do not dispute this fact. Where they do disagree on, however, is the identity of the sacrificial child. The Bible states that this child was Isaac:

"After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis 22:1-2, R.S.V.).

"By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son ..." (Hebrews 11:17, R.S.V.).

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered up his son Isaac upon the altar?" (James 2:21, R.S.V.).

Muslims on the other hand feel that Ishmael was the one offered up by Abraham. They believe that the Holy Bible supports this by its declaration that Abraham offered his only son (see above verses). Ishmael was Abraham's only son for over 13 years, which would make it impossible for Isaac to be the chld of sacrifice. (Cf. Genesis 16:16, 21:5).

Muslims believe that scribes later corrupted the original reading from Ishmael to Isaac.

Since this idea stems from the Muslim misunderstanding of the phrase "only son", it becomes necessary to explain what this phrase exactly means in relation to Isaac. A careful reading of the Holy Bible shows that the phrase is used to affirm Isaac's unique status, a status based on the following:

Isaac was the only promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with (cf. Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30). Ishmael was never a promised child.

Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, with the Quran likewise agreeing (cf. Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30). Ishmael was conceived normally without the need of any miraculous intervention.


God promised that it would be Isaac's descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. (Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14). Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.
It is for these reasons that Isaac is called Abraham's only son since God himself reckoned him as the child of promise and blessings, an honor never bestowed upon Ishmael.

Even more amazing is the fact that the Quran never mentions the name of the sacrificial child; amazing indeed considering how overzealous some Muslims have been in their attempts to prove that Ishmael, not Isaac, was that son:

"He said: ‘I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me! O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!’ So we gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.

"Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, He said: ‘O my son! I see in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!’ (The son) said: ‘O my Father! Do as thou art commanded: Thou will find me, if God so wills one practicing patience and constancy!’

"So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice), we called out to him, ‘O Abraham! Thou hast already fulfilled thy vision’ - thus indeed do we reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial - And we ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice ..." (Surah 37:99-106).

The ambiguity of the text has left many Islamic scholars guessing as to whether the child was Isaac or Ishmael. Yusuf Ali makes a note of this in his commentary:

"This (i.e. the child promised to Abraham and later commanded to be sacrificed) was in the fertile land of Syria and Palestine. The boy thus born, was, according to Muslim tradition (which however is not unanimous on this point), the first-born son of Abraham, viz Ishmael ..." (1: p. 1204, f. 4096).

Muhammad H. Haykal, in his classic biography The Life of Muhammad, wrote:

Who Was the Sacrificial Son?
Historians of this period disagree on the matter of Ibrahim's sacrifice of Isma'il. Did the event take place before the birth of Ishaq or thereafter? Did it take place in Palestine or in the Hijaz? Jewish historians insist that the sacrificial son was Ishaq, not Isma'il. This is not the place to analyze this issue. In his book Qisas al Anbiyd', Shaykh `Abd al Wahhab al Najjar concluded that the sacrificial son was Isma'il. His evidence was drawn from the Qur'an itself where the sacrificial son is described as being Ibrahim's unique son, which could only be Isma'il, and only as long as Ishaq was not yet born ... For with the birth of Ishaq, Ibrahim would have no "unique" son but two, Isma'il and Ishaq. But to accede to this evidence implies that the sacrifice should have taken place in Palestine ... This would equally be true in case the sacrificial son was Ishaq, for the latter remained with his mother Sarah in Palestine and never left for the Hijaz. On the other hand, the report which makes the sacrifice take place on the mountain of Mina near Makkah identifies the sacrificial son as Isma'il. The Qur'an did not mention the name of the sacrificial son, and hence Muslim historians disagree in this regard. (trans. Isma'il Raji al-Faruqi [Islamic Book Trust Kuala Lumpur/American Trust Publishers, 1976], pp. 24-25; cf. online edition; underline emphasis ours)

@muslimhastamstudy -all your questions answered

 
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Johann

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I am searching! I do not want to defend a belief. But it is true that many Muslims believe that the person whom Abraham sacrificed was Ishmael, and they claim that It is mentioned in the Messianic prophecies, The one who is supposed to be the savior comes from the generation of the one who was supposed to be sacrificed by Abraham.

I don't looking for who was the sacrificing boy! I am looking for relation between "The act of sacrifice by Abraham" and the "Messianic prophecies".

Here is your answer @muslimhastamstudy
Johann.
 

Johann

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I think he is the only one who understood the point of my question.

Some Muslims claim that the boy who was to be sacrificed is Ishmael, and the Torah has been manipulated. And they say that it is prophesied in the other books that the Messiah is a descendant of that person who was supposed to be sacrificed. I want to know if it is mentioned somewhere that the Messiah will come from the boy who was supposed to be sacrificed?
Answer given brother.
Johann.
 

Heart2Soul

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I am looking for relation between sacrificing and the Messianic prophecies! I don't looking for who was the sacrificing boy!
Hello muslimhastamstudy, welcome to Christianity Board!

What you are hoping to connect in scripture concerning sacrifice of a son indicates to me that you missed the main lesson to be learned here. It wasn't a sacrifice that God wanted from Abraham it was a test of his faith to trust God and obey Him no matter what.
Scripture teaches us that everyone's faith will be tried by fire to see if it remains.
Here is the scriptures that confirm this.

Genesis 22 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
² And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
³ And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.


⁹ And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
¹⁰ And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
¹¹ And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
¹² And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
¹³ And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
¹⁴ And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
¹⁵ And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
¹⁶ And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
¹⁷ That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
¹⁸ And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.


It was Abraham's obedience to trust God and to obey Him in all things, even the sacrifice of his only son that caused God to bless Him and declare him to be the father of many nations....also note that his name was Abram until God changed his name to Abraham...(Hebrew:father of a multitude; exalted father, father lifted up, father of the Jewish nation.)

I hope this clears up the confusion.
God Bless