I will send my messenger

[face2face]

Keep on preaching that Gospel of Inconsistency, friend.

You teach it WAS OK for God to resurrect all those people before Jesus was.
You teach it WAS NOT OK for God to glorify Moses and Elijah before Jesus was.

"Consistency, thou art a jewel".

Correct, though you dont seem to understand why.

Two reasons which you are struggling with:

1. Revelation 1:5 first born from the dead to immortality (no others in human history!)
2. John 3:13 No one in Heaven from this creation except the Lord Jesus Christ (explicit!)

Return when you have dealt with these.

F2F

 

[Phoneman777]

Correct, though you dont seem to understand why.
Two reasons which you are struggling with:
1. Revelation 1:5 first born from the dead to immortality (no others in human history!)

Nothing in Revelation 1:5 KJV about that "to immortality" - just "first born from the dead", which is a monkey wrench in your machinery, seeing many others resurrected before Jesus.

2. John 3:13 No one in Heaven from this creation except the Lord Jesus Christ (explicit!) Return when you have dealt with these.

Context, my friend! What's the context of Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus? Understanding and teaching heavenly things - which learned teacher Nicodemus could not teach, notwithstanding lesser men.

Jesus is saying, "And no man ascendeth up to heaven (to learn of heavenly things and come down to teach them) save the Son of Man which is in heaven". How do we know? Because the OT plainly tells us God carried Elijah to heaven! Not to an unmarked grave, not to the 1st heaven where the birds fly, nor the 2nd heaven where the stars twinkle, but to the 3rd heaven where is the glory of God. It is this glory with which Moses and Elijah "appeared in glory" to Jesus.

Please stop denying the fact that God took Elijah to heaven and inserting human ideas about Elijah being killed and buried by God, friend.

 

[face2face]

Nothing in Revelation 1:5 KJV about that "to immortality" - just "first born from the dead", which is a monkey wrench in your machinery, seeing many others resurrected before Jesus.

You dont let up mate!
Jesus was the first mortal man to be raise to immortality.
You keep digging that hole you wont be able to get out of it!

 

[face2face]

Please stop denying the fact that God took Elijah to heaven and inserting human ideas about Elijah being killed and buried by God, friend.

I've tried long enough I think - remain in ignorance!

 

[Phoneman777]

You dont let up mate!
Jesus was the first mortal man to be raise to immortality.
You keep digging that hole you wont be able to get out of it!

I keep proving you wrong, friend
You keep saying no man has been to heaven, but clearly Elijah was carried there in a fiery chariot. Jesus said "no man ascendeth up to heaven" in the context of going to learn of heavenly things and coming back to teach men - only He did that.

 

[Phoneman777]

I've tried long enough I think - remain in ignorance!

Please show me the Scripture where Elijah was killed and buried, and don't say, "Well, the Psalmist says what man is there who never died" because Hebrews 11:5 KJV plainly tells you Enoch did not "taste death", right or wrong?

What did Jesus mean when He said, "Some of you shall not taste death until you see the kingdom of God"?

Exactly - He meant they would not die until they saw it.

 

[face2face]

Please show me the Scripture where Elijah was killed and buried, and don't say, "Well, the Psalmist says what man is there who never died" because Hebrews 11:5 KJV plainly tells you Enoch did not "taste death", right or wrong?

What did Jesus mean when He said, "Some of you shall not taste death until you see the kingdom of God"?

Exactly - He meant they would not die until they saw it.

That's funny as I was wondering how long it would take you to bring Enoch into the discussion.

It's a hotly debated section of Scripture phoneman!

You are using this text to prove Enoch didn't die...at all!~ but the record states he didn't "see" death...big difference as you are now realising.

Why does the narrative of Genesis 5 suspend the he did die?

"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" & "He was not found"

What's the lesson?

I'm curious if you can work it out? It's not what you have in mind so leave that behind!

A clue: Who is Enoch set against in Hebrews 11? And what was the lesson for those reading it all these years later?

 

[face2face]

I keep proving you wrong, friend
You keep saying no man has been to heaven, but clearly Elijah was carried there in a fiery chariot. Jesus said "no man ascendeth up to heaven" in the context of going to learn of heavenly things and coming back to teach men - only He did that.

Into the atmosphere yes agree! Buried privately by the Lord like Moses

 

[face2face]

@Phoneman777 gone silent?
You made a mistake quoting Enoch?
I am willing to show you some beautiful lessons from Genesis 5 & Hebrews 11 when you are ready.

 

[Phoneman777]

That's funny as I was wondering how long it would take you to bring Enoch into the discussion.

It's a hotly debated section of Scripture phoneman!

You are using this text to prove Enoch didn't die...at all!~ but the record states he didn't "see" death...big difference as you are now realising.

Why does the narrative of Genesis 5 suspend the he did die?

"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" & "He was not found"

What's the lesson?

I'm curious if you can work it out? It's not what you have in mind so leave that behind!

A clue: Who is Enoch set against in Hebrews 11? And what was the lesson for those reading it all these years later?

No need to hotly debate...we all know what it means to "see death" and "not see death". He was 365 when the Lord decided he'd walked the mean streets down here long enough and it was time to walk the streets of gold up there.

 

[face2face]

No need to hotly debate...we all know what it means to "see death" and "not see death". He was 365 when the Lord decided he'd walked the mean streets down here long enough and it was time to walk the streets of gold up there.

A weaker than expected response Phoneman - you waning?
I guess you dont want to know the truth about that section>

 

[Phoneman777]

Into the atmosphere yes agree! Buried privately by the Lord like Moses

The LORD buried him on the "atmosphere"? Seriously? I think you mean the Third Heaven...where God's throne is...where nobody gets buried b/c nobody dies.

 

[face2face]

@Phoneman777

"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" & "He was not found"

Are you a little curious why the writer positioned his death in such a symbolic way?

I mean, is there the tiniest curiosity or do you want to hold to your error?

 

[face2face]

The LORD buried him on the "atmosphere"? Seriously? I think you mean the Third Heaven...where God's throne is...where nobody gets buried b/c nobody dies.

What happened to him after his chariot experience is conjecture - only part we know for sure is he died and was buried by the Lord - I think deep down you are coming to this realization.

F2F

 

[Phoneman777]

A weaker than expected response Phoneman - you waning?
I guess you dont want to know the truth about that section>

I've got my Bible to tell me the truth! Enoch didn't see death - which means he didn't die. Prove me wrong.

 

[Phoneman777]

@Phoneman777

"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" & "He was not found"

Are you a little curious why the writer positioned his death in such a symbolic way?

I mean, is there the tiniest curiosity or do you want to hold to your error?

Moses is telling us that Enoch was 365 years old when God took him to heaven without seeing death. What's the hard part?

 

[face2face]

I've got my Bible to tell me the truth! Enoch didn't see death - which means he didn't die. Prove me wrong.

I'm not sure if that is in invitation to teach or merely your resistance to learn.

 

[face2face]

Moses is telling us that Enoch was 365 years old when God took him to heaven without seeing death. What's the hard part?

Ha "the days" (i.e start and an end!) like everyone else!
You hit roadblocks everywhere Phoneman!

 

[face2face]

@Phoneman777 sorry correction "ALL the days" i.e the sum total of days "he lived" before being taken by the Lord.
All in Adam die Phoneman - why resist?

 

[face2face]

@Phoneman777 I can see you haven't thought this through for yourself. You have been fed lies and now you are struggling to prove them - I've been here so many times and you get a believer to the precipice and they wont jump into truth.

Let me know when you are keen to learn!