I will send my messenger

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face2face

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I've got my Bible to tell me the truth! Enoch didn't see death - which means he didn't die. Prove me wrong.
Besides the share volume of Scripture which stands against you - there is a divine decree which is irrevocable.

Romans 6:23

If you go against that verse your faith is history! Your doctrine is void, empty...worthless!

You know why right?
 
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Phoneman777

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I'm not sure if that is in invitation to teach or merely your resistance to learn.
It's an invitation to stop calling up down and black white, friend. It's clearly written the man didn't "see death". Jesus said some would not "taste death".

A blind man can see these phrases refer to the "experience" of death in a colloquial manner...why you cannot is uncertain.

If only the Bible had spoken of someone "smelling" death, and another "touching" death and still another "hearing" death...maybe then you'd be convinced, right?
 

face2face

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It's an invitation to stop calling up down and black white, friend. It's clearly written the man didn't "see death". Jesus said some would not "taste death".

A blind man can see these phrases refer to the "experience" of death in a colloquial manner...why you cannot is uncertain.

If only the Bible had spoken of someone "smelling" death, and another "touching" death and still another "hearing" death...maybe then you'd be convinced, right?

1 Corinthians 15:23 stands true phoneman

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, THEN at his coming those who belong to Christ.

i.e Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses & Elijah etc etc....Enoch also!
 

Phoneman777

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Ha "the days" (i.e start and an end!) like everyone else!
You hit roadblocks everywhere Phoneman!
Yes, 365 days in his mortal body, the end of which was not by death, but by translation into his eternal body - the one with which he "appeared in glory" to Jesus.
 

face2face

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Yes, 365 days in his mortal body, the end of which was not by death, but by translation into his eternal body - the one with which he "appeared in glory" to Jesus.

End of which was translated to death. "All of the days" implies an end of days! Also you never dealt with 1 Corinthians 15:23?
Are you suggesting Enoch was sinless - Romans 6:23 didn't apply to him and that Enoch is the first-fruits of them that sleep?

Not adding up for you is it Phoneman?
 

Phoneman777

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@Phoneman777 I can see you haven't thought this through for yourself. You have been fed lies and now you are struggling to prove them - I've been here so many times and you get a believer to the precipice and they wont jump into truth.

Let me know when you are keen to learn!
When Scripture says the man never saw death, and you insist the man died, that's all one needs to conclude who agrees with lies and who agrees with Scripture.
 

face2face

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When Scripture says the man never saw death, and you insist the man died, that's all one needs to conclude who agrees with lies and who agrees with Scripture.
You have too many Scriptures that stand in your way...deal with them first and then you will be able to understand why the record states he never saw death...i.e. like others of his time!

(in the same manner - a clue!)
 

Phoneman777

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Besides the share volume of Scripture which stands against you - there is a divine decree which is irrevocable.

Romans 6:23

If you go against that verse your faith is history! Your doctrine is void, empty...worthless!

You know why right?
It's called a divine exception. For instance, the Bible plainly says one man can't suffer the penalty of sin for another, but the man Jesus did just that, right? EXCEPTION.
 

face2face

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It's called a divine exception. For instance, the Bible plainly says one man can't suffer the penalty of sin for another, but the man Jesus did just that, right? EXCEPTION.
No exception to Romans 6:23 phoneman - none whatsoever.
So what we have learned is this:
- No one has ascended heaven except Jesus
- No one has been made immortal except Jesus
- No one raised to immortality until Christ's second coming
- Enoch, Moses, Elijah all dead in the grave.
 

Phoneman777

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1 Corinthians 15:23 stands true phoneman

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, THEN at his coming those who belong to Christ.

i.e Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses & Elijah etc etc....Enoch also!
"Those" referring to the ones who pertain to the rule, not the exception like Moses, Elijah, Enoch, etc.
 

Phoneman777

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End of which was translated to death. "All of the days" implies an end of days! Also you never dealt with 1 Corinthians 15:23?
Are you suggesting Enoch was sinless - Romans 6:23 didn't apply to him and that Enoch is the first-fruits of them that sleep?

Not adding up for you is it Phoneman?
He never died, so "death" has not bearing on the experience of Enoch.
 

Phoneman777

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You have too many Scriptures that stand in your way...deal with them first and then you will be able to understand why the record states he never saw death...i.e. like others of his time!

(in the same manner - a clue!)
What stands in your way is solid Blblical exegesis. You keep preaching that Gospel of Inconsistency which says God is perfectly happy with resurrecting people before Christ the Firstfruits of the Resurrection was raised, but He's staunchly opposed to GLORIFYING someone before Christ was glorified "with the glory I had before the world was", right?
 

Phoneman777

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No exception to Romans 6:23 phoneman - none whatsoever.
So what we have learned is this:
- No one has ascended heaven except Jesus
- No one has been made immortal except Jesus
- No one raised to immortality until Christ's second coming
- Enoch, Moses, Elijah all dead in the grave.
OK, it seems your stubborn resistance to the truth has run its course on this topic, so I think it's best we agree to disagree. I know for a fact the Bible says Enoch did not "taste death", God took Elijah to heaven where no mortal body can withstand the unbridled glory of God, and Moses was resurrected and "appeared in glory" to Jesus centuries afterward. Three witnesses in the mouth of Scripture is plenty to prove to anyone willing to believe the Scriptures as they're written. Shalom!
 

face2face

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OK, it seems your stubborn resistance to the truth has run its course on this topic, so I think it's best we agree to disagree. I know for a fact the Bible says Enoch did not "taste death", God took Elijah to heaven where no mortal body can withstand the unbridled glory of God, and Moses was resurrected and "appeared in glory" to Jesus centuries afterward. Three witnesses in the mouth of Scripture is plenty to prove to anyone willing to believe the Scriptures as they're written. Shalom!
You have provided no evidence on one hand and failed to explain those applicable verses which tell you otherwise. Scripture is clear he died its just the manner in which Enoch died which you are unwilling to accept. Peace also!
 

face2face

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What you need to learn is that Enoch, Moses, Elijah, the "many" of the bodies of the saints which slept, etc., are the exceptions to the rule.
God makes no exceptions when dealing with Romans 6:23
Sounds like you do though?
 

face2face

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What stands in your way is solid Blblical exegesis. You keep preaching that Gospel of Inconsistency which says God is perfectly happy with resurrecting people before Christ the Firstfruits of the Resurrection was raised, but He's staunchly opposed to GLORIFYING someone before Christ was glorified "with the glory I had before the world was", right?
Correct. No one has been glorified to date, except Christ. Remember, First-fruits!...not second, third or fourth - first!
 

face2face

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As this is the end of our chat, do you find it interesting the writer of Hebrews places Enoch along side Abel?

Give that some thought in terms of its implied meaning.

Take care
F2F